I have never seen the German Reserves or as most are U23 Would they compare to MLS reserves or would the Indiana, UCLA and Maryland be competitive with the U-23 teams.... since most are 1985, 86, 87 or 88. And how about the other D3 and D4 who are independent ...there rosters are mostly 1970's players......I assume more physical and less techincal than the U-23...just guessing any idea on the D3 and D4 sides????? Thanks
It depends on the club - most of the so-called "Amateur" teams play in either Regional Leagues (3rd Division) or Oberliga (4th Division) where they compete against the mix of teams, some reserves/amateur, some fully grown and experienced. From what I have seen from the various highlight packages and so on, the play can best be compared to the NCAA football --- if Bundesliga is ~ NCAA top 20 teams, Bundesliga II is 20-40, then the Regional Leagues can be teams in the 40-80 range and so on. The level of athleticism and skill is a lot lower in general but, at the same time, you may have a few very good prospects in the 18-23 year range. The style in the minors is likely to be the same in general as in the country's top leagues, adjusted for quality. For example, you will likely see quality triangulation in a Regional Liga game that you won't see in MLS ... but then a pretty combination will be followed by a shot into the 10th row. For comparison, this week I saw Middlesbrough-Bristol City match (Bristol is 4th in League One at the moment) and, while the quality of the Premiership team was evident, the FA Cup "series" was still even after two home&away matches and then had to go to the PK's. Likewise, in the German Cup matches, a Regional Liga side can give a Bundesliga club a very hard time and occasionally beat it. This year, Osnabrück beat Borussia Mönchengladbach. http://www.kicker.de/fussball/dfbpo...aviIndex/0/liga/102/saison/2006-07/spieltag/2 Can a college team do that? I very much doubt it.
Sidefooter....thanks..... your post was helpful but to help me get a better feel in soccer quality for a US kid going over for trials. German Clubs' U-23....I assume the bigger names like Beyer Level ll, HSV ll and other would have their pick for the U-23 and would be stronger than smaller name. Therefore individual soccer talent....... in comparison to something that I have seen in person.....would you say the big club have the quality of kids of the US U-17 Res and the smaller clubs Regional ODP. With 20 teams of 18-22 roster every player can not be NATS quality.
Eh ... in general, perhaps so. But some may prefer to sign with a smaller club because they're fairly certain that Bayern, Schalke, HSV, etc. will buy top quality internationals for their A-side and that a young prospect could get more PT with smaller clubs at an earlier age. Plus, the Germans tend to be a little regional in their affiliation - if you live in Frankonia and are a Nürnberg diehard, you are not going to play for your nemesis in Munich (Unless Uli Höneß really makes it worth your while). Plus, some clubs are known for developing youngsters and others less so. In general, the individual clubs will be far less athletic than the US U-17's. It's not just 20 clubs with these "amateur sides" - you may have 40-60 of reasonably functional youth programs, each with 25-50 kids. I just posted a clip off the Daily Mail on the US Youth Nats forum where someone (Terry Venables?) said that 6,000 16 year olds enter the professional status in England every year. (and by 21, 5 out of 6 are gone). And, since Germany is more populated than England, you may have double that number there. And that talent can definitely be spread out at 15-17 among many many clubs. AND, it isn't unheard of for future superstars to be cut/released at that age only to become great players after maturing physically 3-4 years down the road. As to what the scouts look for ...
Sidefooter thanks.... sounds like the yearly signing classes at UNC...U-17, regional ODP and local tarheel blue NC stars I had not thought of the regional kid growing up in their system but the club signing the best talent like MLS QUESTION For a US 18-21 yr old signing in Germany, would think it would be better to be on a U-23 under a Bund or 2nd Bund team versus a independent with 25-35 yr old player. It would seem that 1---the U-23 would have a coach with emphasis on teaching 2---more money, better facilities because of 1st team 3---easier to train with and transfer to 1st team.....no transfer or lower team not wanting to accept the transfer fee offered for the player.....like MLS
Yes to all of the above. But this doesn't mean that smaller clubs are clueless. Some may be (Ryan Coiner posted here that his Union Berlin coach didn't even bother with triangulation during the practice sessions ... as the result, Union was pretty pathetic and was relegated to Oberliga, though Coiner himself had a good year and was subsequently signed by Holstein Kiel in Regional Liga Nord), others do want to get promoted to Bundesliga II at the very least and play a reasonably competent soccer.
ROFL...ya think? Frankly, with all due respect to Sidefooter's comparison, I don't think a comparison can be made to the US system. Sometimes you end up with top clubs, with top facilities, with good trainers being only marginal in the Regional or Oberliga. Some times you end up with small clubs, with small budgets and modest facilities making it all the way to the 1.BL (see Unterhaching and Ulm most recently). "Would they compare to MLS reserves or would the Indiana, UCLA and Maryland be competitive with the U-23 teams." I think your question is answered by seeing where players end up, rather than by trying to compare systems. Purdy is an excellent example. An all PAC-10 player, he is impressing well at 1860. Would he do the same at Leverkusen, Bayern or Werder? IMHO, he would not even be on the radar. Would teams like FCK, MSV, KSC pick him up? Very doubtful, but it would depend on their scouting system. Some clubs are more in tune with getting foreign talent than others. Would lesser teams (RWE, CZ Jena, Wacker) have gone after him? Again, very doubtful. I think most U-23 Americans succeed in securing clubs through either 1) agents, 2) their own efforts, 3) links to germany [i.e., used to live there, releative that is german, etc.], or 4) another club brought them over and it did not work out. I think very few are actually scouted in the US, but that is changing. When I played there were NEVER any scouts around. To get to Europe we had to go begging. Now if you go to college, ODP, A-league or D3 games, you can see Europeans in the crowds with clipboards, funny hair cuts and strange shoes...all taking notes.
Remember, few kids start in one place and work their way up to the profi club anymore. More readily, kids work their way up to U16 level, change clubs to a better advanced youth system until U19s, then are recruited into the U23 teams or higher. Many 2.BL clubs in Germany have better U23 set-ups than many of the 1.BL clubs. First, my guess is most 1.BL clubs with decent U23 sides would not take the average US 18-21 player. they would have to be rather exceptional. I think your question is best answered by how many US kids are playing with 1.BL U23 sides right now? My guess is very, very few. But overall, IF a US 18-21 could get on a 1.BL or 2.BL U23 team, that would be the best bet. UNLESS you got on a smaller club like Augsburg or Erzgibirge Aue as they are developing. Some clubs who used to be "lesser" clubs have gotten cash infusions by rich investors who are club folowers, thus allowing them to compete. Facilities: Believe it or not, many, many German teams have facilities that are FAR better than those of most US colleges. Shit, I played against a team in a small farming village way back in the day, just outside Garmisch. They had the marvelous field out in the middle of no where, lighted, stands for the whole town (~2000 people), a bier garten next door and two large huts just off the fields...they were the "kabine" or locker rooms. Talk about NICE. Showers, benches, heated floors, jacuzzis, saunas, etc. Remember, in Germany the local sport clubs are joined by many, many people who pay dues to belong. With that they usually secure grounds and facilities. Coaches: Let's not go there. There is no correlation between money and good coaches...especially at the U23 level.
Tough to compare, as noted. You really have to go, trial and compare to have a decent idea. If that's not possible, get in touch with some of the yanks who play there and ask about the specific setup you're pursuing. From experience, my daughter plays in the second bund, frauen 2 bund, of course. Hmm, plays is a bit strong, though she went 90 this weekend, but watches is usually a bit better (hey, she's only 17, they're in their 20s , sometimes 30s). In any case, on the women's side, the 2 bund would be very decent college team, okay university side, in the US. My son, briefly, played with a regionalia team. It was much, much better than his small college team now (which he tells me isn't any good, still, his german club was not a very good, comparitively, team, either). When Coiner was heading to Union, Union had a reputation of having been, fairly recently (okay, before the wall fell), a big-ish club. But they still covered city buses with team ads, etc, there was a sense of expectation to them. they were in a steep decline, however, which he has described on here very well before.
Will you accept it later today, then? Heading home. But I don't think we disagree, not much. Also, while the athleticism won't be overwhelming, the physical games takes a while to adjust. It's pretty rough, comparitively. Seems very normal after a while.
We don't disagree at all because you have the first/second hand experience in it and I don't. Now, insofar as being in that neck of the woods in the dead of winter ... our experience is shared.
You should be repped for working "insofar" into a sentence. Go about 250 clicks north of St. Petersburg and then let's talk about cold.
No German gets to belittle Moscow cold. Back in Berlin, and have put the animal hat away. Not sure I would have survived parts of the last month without it.
Dad spent three years there ... the beauty of the draft. Two (consecutive) months of darkness in the winter. But it was some years before I was born.