We are never going to get a Soccer Specific Stadium, as asked in another thread, to save this organisation from itself. Not as long as the Krafts own the franchise and have the Foxboro Mausoleum needing non-NFL dates to fill. So could a Soccer Specific Front Office save the Revolution? Or have the Patsies/soccer incompetents ruined what had been a good thing beyond the point of return?
I don't think we are anywhere near the "point of no return". A "Soccer Specific Front Office" with the proper support (read $$) to do some creative and effective marketing AND some corrective lenses to adjust the near-sightedness would see some steady improvement IMHO.
I wanna party like it's 1999 ! I've been out of town for a few days so I'm just getting caught up. I was out in Hollywood pitching a movie idea to some really oily guy with bad hair who wears sunglasses indoors and calls everyone 'babe' . Anyway, he liked my movie script idea. I pitched it as "like 'pretty woman' meets 'out of Africa', but starring Michael Caine and Renee Zellwhinger. But then we started talking about another project. The working title is going to be somethign like 'forward from the past' or maybe 'back to the furure' , we aren't sure which works best. Anyway, this is the basic idea : Get some kid to drive a sport car--let's say an obscure one that they built in some place like Belfast and is funded by drug money, and he meets this crazy scientist (the character's name is Doctor Francq in the working script ) and they go back in time to alter the out come of life as we know it. In this case, the Krafts make Brian O'Donovan resist the lure of the lucrative career of being a house DJ mix-master of Gaelic folk music at a local non profit radio station and keep him in the fold running the show at Focks-boro. Or if the Krafts just don't have pockets deep enough to compete with the rich media titans of NPR, maybe they can at least take some of his philosophy and spread it around to each and every one of the multitude of front office disciples. You might have to do it over two weeks, since there are so many of them. What a crazy idea it is to actually have sales reps who are plugged in to the local football scene, be it the kids leagues or local ethnic leagues. I wonder if anyone other than Craig hablamoes any espan-yol over there. I fink Rui Costa (no the OTHER Rui Costa) still works there, but there prolly isn't a lot for him to do now that a big Portuguese club played their annual 'we're broke, so let's soak the New England Luso community' tour. Was he out in the car park waxing his car with a Sporting jersey he got from the pro shop ? Good job he didn't show such disrespect to the jersey and do that with a Revs shirt, or he'd be taking his teeth home in a paper bag ! Wot you say ? Oh, there WERE no Revs kits on the shelf until a few days ago ? Oh, never mind... So the idea behind this is to go back when people used to care about this club, when there was a buzz in the air even if the team were a steaming hot loaf of schyte, wafting through the air, baking on the hot asphalt. Get one of them new-fangled digital cameras and take a huge muriel size photo of the whole scene. Fold it up in your pocket and save it for 2004 when we need it. And I got to say, that Tampa Bay Mutiny sure are a crap side ! They are almost as bad as Miami con-Fusion, but good job that the Colombian drug kingpin bought the club so he'd have a conveninet place to launder his profits. Well, now that Valderrrama needs an industrial size crate of Rogain to go along with his walker in the midfield. So if you can only find a way to go back in time and change a few things here and there, I think we'd be all set. Cheers, "Red"
More likely the team will move to Hartford and change their name to the New England Whale. The big Hispanic community will save them no doubt.
Re: I wanna party like it's 1999 ! [QUOTE="Red" Foley]I was out in Hollywood pitching a movie idea to some really oily guy with bad hair who wears sunglasses indoors and calls everyone 'babe' .[/QUOTE] Frank Dell Appa is not oily, nor does he have bad hair. The rest fits. What was he doing in Hollywood? Looking for a script that gells?
It could be that, financially, things are not as bad as they appear. Attendance has clearly gone down but it could be that the net income per game has remained the same or even gone up. While it's hard to know the exact figures I tried to do some estimates: Code: Old Stadium Per Person Revenue: Parking (3 per car): $3.33 Average Ticket: $14.00 Concessions: $6.00 Total: $23.33 Average attendance: 15,000 Total Average Revenue Per Game: $349,950 Code: New Stadium Per Person Revenue: Parking (3 per car): $5.00 Average Ticket: $20.00 Concessions: $10.00 Total: $35.00 Average attendance: 10,000 Total Average Revenue Per Game: $350,000 Since the costs to handle 15,000 people would be greater than to handle 10,000 the team could actually be making more money with the higher prices despite the lower attendance - especially when you factor in that they are spending almost nothing on marketing when before there was at least some marketing effort. If this is close to the truth, I would say that while this might work in the short term, it will fail in the long run. In order to succeed the fan base needs to grow - not shrink. I think Frank's question is a good one. It seems to me that the only thing the current organization knows is how to run a football team: - The Patriots sellout their games without any effort so no marketing is needed. Therefore management has no clue how to launch an effective marketing plan. - Because the demand for tickets is so high, they can treat the fans and season ticket holders poorly and charge high prices for parking, concessions, etc. - Since the Pat's games are sold out and the demographics of the typical football fan, security is a significant concern for Pat's games. Unfortunately, they don't understand that Revolution draw a much different crowd and football security tactics are not needed. - Patriots fans buy tickets in advance because they have to because there is a 'real demand' for tickets. Management doesn't know how to deal with a team where this is not the case therefore they try the lame effort at creating 'artificial demand'. I'm not sure a soccer specific front office would 'save the Revolution' but I'm afraid they might be doomed to failure if they don't at least make an honest effort to have a true Revolution front office that understands the game and how to market it (including the game-day experience, pricing, etc).
Interesting assessment by Pwykes. But instead of 15,000 and 10,000 figures to work with, it might be more accurate to use a figure of 20,000 for the old days and 6,000 or 7,000 for today.
The key, Big Frank, is how many of the tickets are actually paid for. The club will claim that under O'Donovan, comp tickets were a massive factor in the great attendance figures ... and that the policy has changed under new administration. They might even argue that they're taking in more ticket revenue than ever before, just because such a greater portion of the fans in attendance are actually paying for their ducats. Maybe it's true. Maybe it's spin. Everything must be taken with a grain of salt in the corporate world (and the world at large, for that matter). But let's cut the Revs a break here and assume that they're telling the truth. I'd still have several bones to pick with the way they operate. 1. Ticket prices are just too high. Those empty corner seats at every game are indisputable proof. When you've forced people from the middle of the stands to the corners (thanks to the cost-cutting move to block off the other side of the lower bowl), the least you can do is lower the price. But no ... Category 1 single-game ticket prices at the old 'Boro in 2001: $23; Category 2 single-game ticket prices at Gillette in 2003 and 2004: $23. The club is making it quite clear: Here's a crappier seat. Give us as just as much money. This Revs administration needs to learn what the Lowell Lock Monsters learned after vastly overcharging its fans in the first season -- a high level of play doesn't mean people will pay higher prices to watch ... especially when you're also trying to sell the "product" as family entertainment. Conversely, the new Double-A N.H. Fisher Cats' top ticket is $6 (though that will go up when they move into their new stadium next year). The wildly popular Lowell Spinners Single-A team tops off at $7.50. Yes, the Spinners have the huge advantage of creating demand in their small park. But they still can get 5,000 fans every night, 36 times from late June to late August. Put two Revs matches on back-to-back weekends these days, and just pray that you break five digits when the attendance is announced (didn't happen this time around...) 2. Parking is too costly. When I was a season-ticket holder, the esteemed Weber King and I paid $5 to get into a private lot maybe a quarter of a mile from the stadium. Eventually, the lure of the Riders tailgate prompted us to splurge for the $10 stadium lot. But $15 just seems like a kick in the teeth, especially when many fans have to go well out of their way to get to the games. 3. Merchandising is a farce. I went to the Phantoms U.S. Open Cup match in Manchester last summer, and at the entrance to Singer Park (soon to be the Fisher Cats' stadium, by the way), there was a tent in which you could buy all sorts of Phantoms gear, including several different jerseys. The fact that a USL D3 team offered jerseys in the "pro shop" while the local first division club could only muster some T-shirts and a 2002 Eastern Conference champs sweatshirt speaks volumes. Back in my season-ticket days, one of the first things I did before the USA/MEX -- Revs/Tampa doubleheader was buy one of the new Reebok jerseys. It was the 1997 home opener. The club has screwed up this part of the business ever since. Certainly, it's hard to blame the club for cost-cutting, and I don't think they should be papering the crowd or anything like that. But you need bodies in the seats, you need energy in that stadium, and the business moves the Revs have made have deprived them of both. If you lower prices and keep the one side of the stadium closed, at the very least you'll draw more fans and project greater support for the team.
I like the premise of this thread much better, as it seems more realistic, and more to the point. But as has already been said, this question of whether the team is beyond the point of no return is way over the top. The team is in a down period, due to many factors. I don’t think that a team can be beyond the point of no return until a large portion of the fan base or potential fan base is very angry or just plain fed up with the team. This team isn’t important enough to most of the potential fan base to care enough about the Revs for this to be the case. IMHO, the reasons why the team is in a down period are, in no particular order: -lack of any consistency on the part of the team, other than consistently disappointing -a poor economy combined with higher prices -lack of marketing/lack of public awareness I do think that it’s silly to say that the new stadium itself has anything to do with why there are much smaller crowds now. Nobody can convince me that if this stadium had been around back then, the crowds would have been smaller, or that the people who attended back then have since come to Gillette and decided not to come back because of the stadium. Plus, don’t forget that average attendances did get a boost back then by a big doubleheader or 2 each season, such as combining with the Nats or the like. We haven’t had that of late. I’m not saying that this would make up the current deficit, but it doesn’t help. Some of you people just seem to remind me of Glum, from that Gulliver's Travels cartoon on the Banana Splits (“we’ll never make it”).
Re: I wanna party like it's 1999 ! looking for good web-sites about some obscure Brazilian teams to dress up as "reporting" for the Globe.
I wouldn't blame the stadium either but it's the large price increases that went into effect with the move to the new stadium that are a big problem, in my opinion. I think Revs management got greedy thinking people would pay extra to watch games in the new stadium.
Yes, exactly. The reps pretty much said as much. I remember asking if we'd get t-shirts again for renewing and was told, no, we're giving you a stadium... They really thought that they'd get a bigger, longer-lasting bang from the stadium, but instead they priced themselves out of the casual fan market. And, it's tough to bite the bullet and roll back prices - if it doesn't bring people back in big enough numbers, you're really in deep trouble. They COULD try a single "rollback" game date as an "experiment", where they have reduced admission for the whole stadium, but unless they spend some money to publicize it, it wouldn't work.
Re: I wanna party like it's 1999 ! [QUOTE="Red" Foley] So if you can only find a way to go back in time and change a few things here and there, I think we'd be all set. Cheers, "Red"[/QUOTE] Dude - don't eat the red mushrooms anymore okay? Funny.
Code: It isn't the stadium but a whole host of "new" policies/prices/procedures that came with the opening of the new stadium - 50% Parking price increase - Combined with weekly changes in the parking policy - Combined with a weakly handout of prohibited items. They've had to reduce the font and print doublesided. - Ticket price increases - Sideline seats are only facing into the sun. Gametimes are near sundown... - Food prices inside the stadium are way up. - Never sure which places will be open - Random presence of the soccer celebration. - Less support (IMHO) to season ticket holders. I used to be able to get alot of help when I wanted extra tickets. Help in getting seats together. Help in getting tickets the day before the game... Now I get ticket ^@stard. - Gate Security - Over the top and inconsistent: - No bags - not even the ones they handed out as a gate prize last week - No bags - not even when you are bringing 5 young kids to the freezing cold season opener and want to carry extra coats, gloves, hats.. - No bags - except over in that line everyone is getting through with bags - Last week bags were okay, at the gate you went to, this week they aren't - A ticket that says "Center Circle" on it is good for the Center Circle entrance for 5 straight games. At the sixth they won't let you through unless you have your plastic Center Circle card (which is conveniently too big for a wallet). It isn't a fun place to be. Since the soccer isn't exciting either, one may tend to notice these irritations more. I do. Nine years of patience is enough. I believe alot of people who were inclined to support soccer have voted the capitalist way, with their feet, and it will take a long time for even a better run front office to recapture their support.
I agree with everything Beez had to say. Also, the Revs have a soccer specific front office. Craig T and Joe C are soccer guys, through and through. What they need is money to spend on billboard and radio advertising instead of being forced to barter for every last bit of exposure they get. I think this is the big difference between now and "the old days." The Revs once had a presence in the metro area. Now they don't. If I was them I'd get rid of Cat II and Cat III distinctions and make those portions of the stadium general admission. I'd price the tix at $10 each and blast the offer on as many area radio stations as possible. I'd cut parking back to $10. In the short term I think they'd lose money with this approach, but I think more people would come to the stadium and over time nothing draws a crowd quite like a crowd.
The earlier analysis in this thread showed Old Stadium = $23.33/person/game New Stadium = $35/person/game In the Old stadium 40% of that revenue was from a source other than the ticket. In the New stadium, 43% is from a non-ticket source. (MORE! than the old stadium) Can someone review the league revenue sharing/loss sharing? I'm assuming more fannies in the seats is more profit for the Krafts since I figure ticket revenues (losses) are shared across MLS but concessions and parking are not. Assuming people would use them, giving tickets away might be a great idea. I can see where MLS might frown on an owner/operator guilding his pocket linings this way...
I have absolutely no inside information here, merely a speculative, brooding nature. My sense of what has taken place is that Kraft, Inc. leveraged itself to the hilt to build the Patties Playpen and simply has no extra cash for what they see as frills. To the high, higher-ups the Revs are frills. To the socca guys like Craig, etc. they aren't but I would bet that a great many good ideas come out of Craig, Joe Cummings, Rui Costa, et al that wither and die when presented to the bean-counters who are saving up to buy even bigger Super Bowl rings for the whales. I totally agree that the community presence has been terribly neglected on all levels and that the appearence of gouging and security on an airport level is completely alienating to a soccer fan. But I see all of this as a result of the Krafts building their stadium with their own money. None of this was an issue until the new place opened. I sat in front of a few folks who must have bought tickets so as to be able to go to pork practice. their ignorance about soccer was painful although they did admit that last Sat's match was exciting. Yet, given some of the remarks that I have heard about the current product on offer as being "bad soccer" by former enthusiasts I tend to wonder what they thought they were watching from 96 to 2000? Sure, the Revs could play better but the real issue is that they are losing, last Sat excepted. They sure play a lot better stuff than I've seen in the glorious old stadium. An d, more important, the nine other teams who come here do too. Unfortunately, at the moment, they tend to do it even better. JIM DOW
The "soccer guys," what few of them are left, are not running the show. Joe Cummings is capable of running the show, but he only deals with team matters as technical director. He has nothing to do with the business side, which is a shame given the sham that they are running. Craig T. should concentrate on what he does best, and what is most needed - selling tickets. He can keep his puffed up title, but should go back to what he used to do. So what it is that he does now, actually? Rui Costa? Isn't he supposed to be attracting the ethnic crowd? For his sake, I hope he isn't working on commission. The TV rating are in today's El Globo and, not surprisingly, the Mutts match didn't even rate. Less than a 1.0. Less than 10,000 announced. And some people still think there is not a major, serious problem here?
AGM at the Revs 1996-1999. And, oh yeah... GM Boston Renegades, GM Boston Bulldogs, GM Cape Cod Crusaders, Director of Ops (Foxboro) for WWC1999 Venue Manager (Foxboro / Philly) WWC2003.
taking off....so, i can't write much. i will say though, that none of us really KNOW if the "soccer guys" that are left in the office would be the RIGHT soccer guys if the top rungs were more soccer specific than they are now. they might all be soccer peeps, they might all be good peeps, but....i couldn't say whether they're all the best "right" soccer peeps. could it possibly be said that the people that are surviving in that office are the ones that fit the "on the cheap", "faceless", "unresponsive" (or whatever you like to call it) operations of the revs the best? clearly the krafts wouldn't hire anyone that doesn't fit the company profile, correct? i think that sometimes we talk about the soccer people in that office with an amnesty international kind of sympathy.....like "if they were free, they'd change the soccer world in new england, they would." i don't think we really know enough about the skills in there to make that kind of leap. p.s.....i do know firsthand that the joe c led breakers really seemed to connect to their fanbase and presented a pretty succesful product (from an attendance/retention point of view). exactly his role in forming the gameday atmosphere, i don't know. p.s.s.....i know that they do take time to answer questions via phone, email, or whatever. however, i use "unresponsive" in the larger sense. meaning, i always get the feeling that people are getting answers...but, personally, i find i have far more questions after getting any response. attendance and gameday keeps getting worse in the meantime....feels a lot like having the captain spend and hour telling you why the titanic can't possibly sink as you're slowly dropping into the icy water.
I think you've brought up a good point. Talent is only half the battle. Organizations, just like teams, have to have a good center point to motivate them, and it has to be genuine. We could have all the top soccer guys in the world in our front office, and if they aren't getting the support to move ahead with their ideas, or the financing to do anything, then it won't matter any more than putting the last 11 FIFA players of the year on a field would make a great soccer team.
I'd be the first to admit that the 2004 REVS would destroy the 96 REVs. The REVS have been consistent, unfortunately, in their regular season performance RELATIVE to the rest of the league. They are a cellar dwellar that, relative to the other teams, turns in stinkers or non-efforts way too often. They settle for ties, even at home. They consistently start seasons slow, etc. I think the "bad soccer" comment is based upon this relative performance. I don't know if I'm "former" in my enthusiasm but they haven't met my expectation for progress as a team. I never sat down and wrote out what I expected for progress but this is not it.
About ticket prices, prices for the Revolution are comparable to prices for other MLS clubs. They're also clearly cheaper than any other major league team in New England. I'm not really sure I'd compare prices with minor league baseball clubs, considering they have lower costs and more games. Along with the fact that they're minor league, while MLS is supposed to be the best soccer America has to offer. That's not to say the Revs couldn't try more promotions. The Papa Gino's deal is a good start. But only a start.