News: Camp Cupcake - Post WC 2023 Edition

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Eighteen Alpha, Nov 3, 2022.

  1. GiallorossiYank

    GiallorossiYank Member+

    Jan 20, 2011
    NJ/Roma/Napoli
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Although I think Jan camp gave some states-based players a bit of an advantage, there's no good reason to NOT have it
     
  2. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Indeed.

    We did have camps this cycle for Euro-based fringe players too.
    For instance in 2020 and 2021 we had international windows with young and fringe Euro-based players. For many of them it was their first caps. Players like Otasowie, Ledezma, Llanez, Soto, Cappis, Gioacchini, Odunze, Reynolds, De la Fuente, etc were called up to those games. Some of those players who got their first caps in those games, like Richards, Musah, etc. stayed in the group moving forward. Luca de la Torre was reintroduced to the USMNT at one of those camps after a long absence. We just can't have the equivalent of a month-long camp for Euro-based players. Impossible.

    There is zero reason to NOT have the January camp because one thinks it gives domestic player an advantage. Those domestic players BECOME the Europe-based players in many cases.
     
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  3. MayaDempsey

    MayaDempsey Member

    Jul 29, 2014
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    True only if resources are unlimited.
     
  4. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    GY, hope you're well!!

    Gotta do a 2026 Tri State meetup for the WC.
     
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  5. GiallorossiYank

    GiallorossiYank Member+

    Jan 20, 2011
    NJ/Roma/Napoli
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm in my man - and you too. I am still upset, these exits are never easy on me.

    Hate that I have to wait 3.5 more years
     
  6. GiallorossiYank

    GiallorossiYank Member+

    Jan 20, 2011
    NJ/Roma/Napoli
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yup the Soto/Richie game was off of a cool euro only camp indeed. To be fair, I do wonder if COVID played a part in that decision.

    That being said - I think we should do this more moving forward...especially since you know, we don't have anything else to do? lol
     
  7. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Yup. We just didn't do it in 2022 as we were in the midst of critical WCQing in the spring and then WC preparation. We did it in 2020 and 2021.

    At the start of the cycle we should be in "casting a big net" mode both domestically and abroad. I imagine some of the WC participants may take a short break from the national team, and not return until the Gold Cup.

    Also true that our U20s are going to be having their own camps/matches in preparation for the U20WC. So some of those younger players may be with that group. Hell, we could send a wicked team to that event if we want to. Add Pepi, Slonina, Paredes, Jonathan Gomez (if he commits), etc. in to the qualifying team.

    I just say that to point out some of those elite young player may not be available with the senior group as they'll be with the U20s.
     
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  8. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #83 thedukeofsoccer, Dec 8, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2022
    CF: Vazquez
    LAM: Sonora
    CAM: Ferreira
    RAM: Mueller
    CM: Williamson
    CDM: Pomykal
    LB: Tolkin
    LCB: Bye
    RCB: Zimmerman
    RB: D. Jones
    GK: Celentano
     
  9. Boysinblue

    Boysinblue Member

    Jul 31, 2011
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Bye as a LCB?
     
  10. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #85 thedukeofsoccer, Dec 8, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2022
    Yessir! I'm thinking outside the box, because I don't think many guys cb's in MLS have realistic potential to be useful in 2026. So I'm trying to recreate a Miles next to Zimmerman situation.

    Bye has some experience at CB, is pretty tall & strong in the air for a RB. He's played well in MLS at RB, but he has more potential at CB. Doesn't match up well quickness wise w/ opposing wingers, but for a CB he's pretty good in the department. And It's a later-developing, longer-lasting position. Heck, if he held up like Ream, he could even go 2 full cycles. Would extend his career for club & potentially country.
     
  11. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Matt Miazga deserves another shot. He’s got Walker Zimmerman 2.0 written all over him. Maybe he’s not that next level center back. But I could see him being a useful depth guy.

    Henry Kessler had a bit of a sophomore slump. But I thought he was good enough last season and good enough against Bosnia & Herzegovina that I wouldn’t mind seeing him in a camp like this.

    Justen Glad might be a player that could move into blossomed in his late 20s category.

    Miles Robinson would be a good call up if he’s fit enough to just train with the team. Maybe just use the camp to start getting back in shape.

    There are some options there that would be worth exploring for depth opportunities at center back, although they might never feature for the team again. But we want to give them their shot since there is now an opportunity to cast a wide net and for them to try to impress.
     
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  12. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Decent list, only really missing Pomykal… not sure who Lund even is but sure why not

     
  13. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Splitting youth interests with senior ones was among the reasons our integration was still so poor last cycle. That shouldn't be a consideration at all. They can have their own camps.

    I'd naturally lean toward youngish guys, but they must have proven something at a respectable level, to warrant senior team call-ups. Bringing guys like Jalen Neal & Brandan Craig is a waste. We gain nothing. They can be brought when they've matured and proven more.
     
  14. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Long was coming to camps even when he wasn't fully recovered or fully able to train, so it makes sense to do the same thing with Miles Robinson.
     
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  15. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Some might say it makes a lot MORE sense for Miles Robinson than it ever did with Aaron Long...
    - Beginning of a new cycle vs end of cycle right around World Cup time
    - Age 25 vs age 30
    - How they have both performed for the USMNT
    - "Owed" based on contribution to the team (WC qualifying and winning Gold Cup)
     
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  16. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Another Jan camp list
     
  17. SoccerFanInIA

    SoccerFanInIA Member

    Sporting KC
    United States
    Oct 28, 2021
    Do people realize how limited windows are nowadays in international soccer? Why are we using a window where we could get valuable data on soccer players who are playing regularly on a U23 or U20 joint camp? Like it or not the head men’s coach is the USMNT Coach, there are coaches for those other levels who are fully capable of having their own domestic camp in January. There are fully capable or at least potentially capable players who are playing regularly that should be called in and tested ESPECIALLY at the beginning of a new cycle and nations league in March. Some of you guys really need to understand real life Soccer instead of like you’re playing FIFA. We shouldn’t be taking advantage of time you can expand the pool to players who can help now, not in 2030.
     
  18. Shaster

    Shaster Member+

    Apr 13, 1999
    El Cerrito, CA, USA
    Lund is a dual Nat in Denmark U-20.
     
  19. QuakeAttack

    QuakeAttack Member+

    Apr 10, 2002
    California - Bay Area
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agree on Matt and I would let Miles train with his club team rather than joining this camp. He is already part of the USMNT pool and can join later in the year once he has reestablished himself after the injury.

    Kessler is a maybe and I have never been impressed by Glad.
     
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  20. Mantis Toboggan M.D.

    Philadelphia Union
    United States
    Jul 8, 2017
    Agree. This camp should be best available senior players--which given the limitation of "available" is still going to have quite a few youth team eligible players. One thing to set an upper age restriction in order to focus on players who can reasonably be expected to contribute at least through the Copa America in ~18 months if not through the entire cycle, but shouldn't be a deliberate U-20/23 focus at least not to the point of bringing in guys who aren't even getting regular senior pro minutes yet.
     
  21. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    #96 Clint Eastwood, Dec 19, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2022
    I'm not sure if we're having a USMNT camp. And if we do, who would be running it.

    It wouldn't surprise me at all if we solely have a U23/U20 camp this January for the domestic players (and select foreign guys if we can get them.). Run by Mikey Varas, the U20 coach.

    If its an ACTUAL USMNT camp, then you have to have at least a couple of core USMNTers there. There's no point having a camp to introduce kids to USMNT culture and expectations, without part of the USMNT being there. So just a sprinkling of the guys that are in their primes and can still contribute as we move towards the 2023 Gold Cup and 2024 Copa America (no point thinking of 2026 yet). Paul Arriola, who's 27, is an example. Had a really good second half of the 2022 season with Dallas. Worthy of selection.

    People mentioned Matt Miazga. Its hard with guys like Arriola and Mizaga. If I was them I'd think "I want to spend time with my family in the offseason. Don't just call me to these camps if you don't have an intention to use me when the games actually matter." We've had guys turn down January camp for that reason. If I'm Miazga, for instance, I would go if there's a new USMNT coach there to evaluate me. If not, I'd skip it. Cuz I saw just how far down Berhalter's depth chart I was.

    I would give all WC participants a break. A mental break as much as a physical one.
     
  22. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, I don’t see us cancelling those games against Colombia and Serbia.

    I understand the logic but it seems that the USMNT is full steam ahead on moving forward with the January Camp.

    Of note, this also makes it seem what could happen is that Berhalter is still going to run this camp, and at a minimum, he might extend his run through the Gold Cup.

    And heck, I still wouldn’t be surprised to see the USSF retain Berhalter for this second cycle. There doesn’t seem to be any notion that he’s going to step down. I could be wrong. But it seems like the USSF has been promoting that this is Berhalter’s team through 2026.

    At the same time, we just finished the World Cup. And it’s Christmas. I’m sure most of the USSF has shut down until the new year. Then, I guess we’ll have a better gauge on thing.

    But for the moment, the January Camp looks to be on. And it looks that it’ll be Berhalter coaching that team.
     
  23. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I still think it’s a priority to get Brandon Vazquez and John Tolkin into the USMNT camp. The forward position is still wide open on the USMNT, and Vazquez has a good chance to make his argument. Simultaneously, the back up left back spot is wide open. And Tolkin also has a good chance to make his argument. All in all, it’s worth the January Camp just to bring these two players into the mix.

    Even Matt Miazga, he stands a good chance to become a Walker Zimmerman 2.0. It doesn’t make sense for him to not want to go, unless he’s just really burned out on life and his career, and he’s just going through the motions. I don’t think he is. I think he wants to demonstrate that he belongs.

    And then, guys like Paxton Pomykal and Eryk Williamson would really benefit from this camp. They have a chance to show that they can be an option to turn to. Maybe even someone like DeJuan Jones can show that he’s an international player.

    If Alan Sonora is available, this would be a great opportunity for him. Same thing for Johnny Cardoso if he can get free. You could then make an argument for other Yanks Abroad that could get off, such as Christian Cappis or Kristoffer Lund.

    I really would like Gabriel Slonina to be in this camp, and I would push hard for him to attend. If he was going to challenge for the starting spot right away, or go on loan somewhere immediately, I would leave him alone. But this is a great opportunity for him to get his first cap. And, he’ll have all the free time in the world over the next couple months to pick splinters out of his butt at Chelsea.

    Main thing.... this January Camp isn’t going to excite the casual fan. But there’s no way if I’m a hungry young player who wants to break into the USMNT that I would deny a call up ~ even if we don’t have our new head coach by then.

    My reason is that I’d like to have already had my name thrown into the hat. For example, if Vazquez gets called in, and gets a goal or two, I can’t see where a new coach wouldn’t consider that when it comes to future call ups. Especially, when no other forward has claimed that position.

    At the same time, I’m not going to start earning a reputation of a call up-denier before a new coach gets in. You know how that would go? New coach explores his forward options. Okay. We got Sargent, Pefok, Dike, Pepi, Ferreira, Wright, maybe Balogun, and oh, who’s that MLS kid? Brandon Vazquez? Oh yeah? He turned down a USMNT call up? Well, let me look at these other three forwards before him then.

    In short, there were plenty of young players who were chomping at the bit to get into the USMNT program early on post-2018. Any chance they got, they were accepting call ups and trying to prove that they could be reliable. I believe that any player who wants a chance to break into what’s going to be a very competitive roster selection, and who has aspirations for 2026, oh, they’re accepting the call. No way are they going to refuse. Not unless they’re hurt. Or unless they’re just burned out and their head isn’t really into the international game.
     
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  24. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh, and I should mention too....

    If you’re a player and you want to go abroad....

    Do not decline a USMNT call up.

    Or, if you’re a MLS lifer, and you want a pay increase...

    Do not decline a USMNT call up.

    Simply, one of the best things that you can do for your career is to build your profile as an international player.
     
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  25. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    I don't see any way we get Slonina for this camp. We shouldn't want him there anyway.
    Hopefully he's loaned to a club by Chelsea to compete for playing time. He'll want to get to that club ASAP. Even if he stays at Chelsea, he'll want that month to settle in.

    The goalkeeper room probably depends on whether this is a joint U20 camp.
    If it's a joint U20 camp then I'd call in Celentano, Callendar, Brady, and Carrera.

    In reality................after Celentano, a case can be made for a bunch of guys in MLS. 6 of one; half a dozen for me. Not a ton of separation. Hell, people act like Sean Johnson is 38. He's 33, and could very much still be in consideration thru the summer 0f 2024. I wouldn't bring him to this camp, but also wouldn't be annoyed if he was brought in for a veteran leader in the room. Do we want Celentano starting against Colombia and Serbia? Maybe not ....................
     

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