News: Camp Cupcake - Post WC 2023 Edition

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Eighteen Alpha, Nov 3, 2022.

  1. Eighteen Alpha

    Eighteen Alpha Member+

    Aug 17, 2016
    Club:
    Stoke City FC
    USMNT to start 2026 World Cup prep vs. Serbia, Colombia in January

    https://www.espn.com/soccer/united-...-start-2026-world-cup-prep-vs-serbia-colombia


    The first look in a momentous new cycle promises to be against decent opposition.

    Burning questions:

    Will the roster skew young? (Is this another U-20/U-23 focused camp?)

    Who will be the manager?

    How many new/newish domestic players will get looks?

    Wish list - Flach, Vasquez, McGlynn, Parks, Tolkin, Bender, Brandan Craig

    How many of the above will be unavailable due to European transfers?

    Will any / Which fringe Euro players / Scandanavian League players get the call?


    Discuss.
     
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  2. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    One suspects that the roster will skew very young with U23s and U20s as they prepare for the U20WC and the Olympics. That's kinda the way it should be at the start of a new cycle anyway. Folks will remember that the first friendly we had after the 2018 cycle ended for us was the friendly against Portugal. That was the first cap for players like McKennie and Adams. This is a similar opportunity. LOTS of domestic talent to look at with players eligible for the U23s. Throw in a couple of older guys who've been on the fringes (like Vazquez, Pomykal, etc.) and there we have it.

    We may not actually have a USMNT coach, so this is the kind of camp that could be run by Mikey Varas.
     
  3. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    One thing I think we can all agree on.
    It's likely that all of the WC participants will be given a break in January.

    Its also a GREAT opportunity to call in some young dual-nationals like Obed Vargas, etc.
     
  4. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    is it, though? listen, im not making a "berhalter and his guys" argument here, im really not (not that we even know berhalter will be there)- but aside from the post-couva purge theres always a "framework", if you will. if it is still gregg its hard to imagine a fully "new" roster just based on his emphasis on continuity, and if its someone else that seems like it would be even more important.

    there could possibly be 3 of the guys in the camp now that dont make the wc roster, say johnson, moore and morris (not looking for a wc roster debate here)- i still dont see that being enough.

    so lets assume johnson and morris do make the wc roster, i still dont see why they (along with roldan, arriola, zim and acosta) wouldnt be "available" (along with moore)? acosta and zim would be the most questionable i suppose due to making mls cup and expected wc workload, respectively.

    and supposing its gregg hes already shown that he isnt super interested in giving guys breaks (ok, that part is a little "gregg and his guys") in using our mlsers in both the nls semis/finals window and the gold cup. and this wouldnt even be as taxing as that- you could very easily slowplay those guys the first couple of weeks.

    i just cant imagine some wide open casting call with no previous nt involvement. if anything im defending the use of our mls/nt contingent.
     
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  5. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    We don't know that Gregg will be the coach for the camp or friendlies. The likelihood is that he isn't. Its likely to be some interim coach as Dave Sarachan was last cycle. Could be Varas.

    So we're all just guessing what the strategy will be.

    However, this roster will likely be made up of January domestic camp participants. And I can't imagine the WC guys being part of that after all of the extra work at the World Cup. Their clubs will want them to have a break before MLS training camp.

    So I'm guessing, just guessing, that this particular camp won't have many core guys. And it makes sense for it to include a lot of the U23s and U20s. That's still a group of guys that many of us want to take a look at.
     
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  6. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    theres already a thread on this somewhere, and im probably repeating exactly what i said there, but these are my general thoughts. the guys i think are likely and the guys im genuinely interested are roughly:

    gk johnson, celentano, pulskamp
    rb moore
    cb robinson
    cb zimmerman, miazga
    lb tolkien, jones
    dm acosta, mcglynn, vargas
    cm williamson, flach
    cm pomykal, aaronson
    rw arriola
    st vazquez
    lw morris, cowell

    i know there are a lot of interesting guys out there (leyna, morris, etc) i either just havent seen/dont know enough about or dont see them as especially close. theres plenty of room left for sexier picks than im making and i know a lot of people want to see big swings, but im more a keep constantly pruning the garden guy.

    a neverending supply of 17 yo, ready to go reynas and musahs would be super but i think we are jumping the gun of some of our young talent. the potential in lil aaronson or vargas is apparent, but we dont need to force it. we need to improve our "middle class" more than our top end (at the expense of experience and mature games), imo.

    and there are a few guys (parks, mueller, jones) i just dont care about. i dont see it with them (though in fairness to jones its simply that hes a rightie). could they do well within this context? maybe. fill out a b-team gold cup? sure, why not? so can freaking jonathan lewis. gioachhini could go here as well, i havent seen or heard a peep from him in orlando...

    but phasing out yedlin and cannon for moore (behind dest and scally) is an improvement we can make now. freshening up our cm with williamson, pomykal, flach is possible now without it being a 3 year plan. vazquez and tolkien are probably the most likely able to contribute soon due to need. i dont know that we have starter/heavy rotation level players right now who are ready so turning over and/or bolstering our deeper rotation guys is the priority for me.

    i just think williamson replacing roldan is a more achievable upgrade now than thinking vargas is going to displace acosta anytime soon. and besides, we have three more of these in the next three very long years. i think seeing that as a reason to tear it down to the u20 studs is a pretty dumb idea- we just freaking went though that- lets build a damn house already.
     
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  7. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My guess is that if Berhalter isn't around, that Anthony Hudson will be the interim coach.

    Varas has a U20 World Cup next summer and I imagine he'll want to use January to call in a fully U20 team and focus on that. January is also one of his few chances to look at some new faces.
     
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  8. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think the three questions for this camp will be 1) how many of the 11 or so World Cup hopefuls will get this camp off (Johnson, Yedlin, Moore, Long, Zimmerman, Arriola, Morris, Roldan, Ferreira, and Acosta), 2) how much will the U20s be left to themselves as they prepare for the U20 World Cup, and 3) what players will make moves abroad this January.

    My guess is you don't see a ton of the guys in World Cup contention, but you may see a few for continuity purposes and to help fill in gaps. I also think the U20s will largely be left to themselves to be allowed to prep as Varas sees fit.

    So with all that said a rough guess as what the roster will look like

    GK: Callender, Celentano, Pulskamp
    LB: Tolkin, Jones
    RB: Moore, Lennon
    CB: Kessler, Campbell, Miazga, Robinson, Glad
    DM: Morris, Flach
    CM: Pomykal, Parks, Sonora, Williamson
    WF: Fagundez, Gioacchini, Morris, Arriola
    FW: Vazquez, Ebobisse
     
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  9. SoccerFanInIA

    SoccerFanInIA Member

    Sporting KC
    United States
    Oct 28, 2021
    My thoughts would be 2026 is supposed to be the cycle that everything comes to fruition and I think a lot of people realize that or see that type of potential. I don’t see GB being the coach after the WC this year, whether that be on his own accord or by USSF but I do think it’s somebody new in the 26 cycle. With that being said, it’s not likely that a new coach is hired by then unless USSF learned from mistakes and has a handful of ideas already. Being as the U20 and U23’s have a coach and a competition in the near future, though I realize the U23 coach is a little more unknown at the moment, and those two teams do tend to be made up of domestic players why not have a full blown camp? 3 teams, potentially some scrimmage opportunities for them to go along with the longer camp and friendlies. There also is nations league in March.

    USMNT
    GK- Callender, Johnson, Marcinkowski
    LB - Jones, Gutman, Farfan
    CB - Zimmerman, Miazga, Kessler, McGraw, Glad
    RB - Bye, Moore, Gressel, Duncan
    6 - Acosta, Cardoso, Cerrillo, Derrick Jones
    8 - Parks, Williamson, Pomykal, Roldan
    10 - Sonora, Yuiell, Sedjic
    LW - Arriola, Fagundez, Mueller
    FW - Ferreira, Vazquez, Ebobissee
    RW - Morris,, Kikanovic, M Gaines

    U23
    GK - Celentano, Rocco Rios Novo, Pulskamp
    LB - Tolkin, Isias, Armour or W Sands
    CB - Gray, Maher (eligible?), Campbell, Keita, Murphy
    RB - Lindsey, Dorsey (eligible?), Pierre
    6 - Morris, Flach, Durkin, Atencio, Haak
    8 - Perea, Servania (eligible?), Cam Duke, Saldana
    10 - Bryce Duke, Alvarez, Palomino, G Acosta, Aziel Jackson
    LW - Vassilev, Jasson, Miljevic
    FW - Campana (eligible for US?), Goiachini, Conway
    RW - C Torres, Ruvalcaba, Dunbar

    U20 (non-MLS DOMESTIC BASED)
    GK - Brady, Carrera
    LB - Gomez, Wiley
    CB - Che, Neal, Wynder, Orozco, Craig
    RB - Cuevas, Halliday, Duenas
    6 - Edelman, Leyva, Vargas
    8 - Pukstas, McGlynn, Tsakiris, Oregel
    10 - Luna, Aaronson, Alvarado
    RW - Gutierrez, Buck, Sullivan
    FW - Cowell, Wolff, Neri, Zambrano-Delgado
    LW - Paredes, Koleosho, Clark

    obviously could knitpick but I think 23’s and full team would be together most of the time and when it comes to friendlies you take the best 23 of the two groups. Might be hard but it’s stretching the net further and further.
     
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  10. SoccerFanInIA

    SoccerFanInIA Member

    Sporting KC
    United States
    Oct 28, 2021
    Would go Zendejas over Gaines after overlooking him in the first place
     
  11. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    sort of random question, but since hes coming up a lot- do you all see varas as independant from berhalter?

    youth coaches are usually connected to the sr nt coach so if berhalter isnt retained id be a little surprised to see varas not only retained but potentially given this camp.
     
  12. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    There will almost certainly be a U20 element/angle to this camp, as the U20 World Cup is in the summer and it's a great chance to bring most of them together with a decent chunk being MLS-based.

    In addition, someone who turns 20 in 2023 -- as most of the team will -- will turn 23 in 2026, obviously, and so you are actually getting a pretty good look at entrants to the pool.

    Did they decide to have a U17 World Cup?
     
  13. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don’t think he’ll be given this camp, but he definitely won’t lose his job if Berhalter does. Think of Tab Ramos post 2018 cycle. He stuck around for the 2019 U20 World Cup before taking the Houston job. And his job was never affected by Klinsmann or Arena being fired (other then him wanting to senior MNT job).
     
  14. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    Most of those guesses make perfect sense from a senior team standpoint, though I do wonder if, so early in the cycle, Stewart and McBride don't decide that this January camp shouldn't have a U20/23 focus.
     
  15. SoccerFanInIA

    SoccerFanInIA Member

    Sporting KC
    United States
    Oct 28, 2021
    As much as I get it, it’s early in the cycle, there are other competitions they participate in other than the World Cup. I don’t quite understand a line of focusing on those groups. There will be players that will play or even be needed for a competition like nations league in March, that won’t be there in the World Cup, and I feel that’s okay.
     
  16. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not sure if all of you know but Varas and Luchi go way back and he was one of Luchi's assistants at FCD. Not sure what that means in regards to national teams and whether he would want to go back to being Luchi's assistant or perhaps take his place on the full national team if Berhalter sticks around (I'm always for a new coach each cycle).
     
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  17. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I sort of think the U20s will be left alone to focus on their own World Cup. This camp in particular is a good opportunity for Varas to look at new faces. I think the U20 camp should take place concurrently, but be its own thing as they have their own specific competition to prepare for.

    There's also not a ton of U23s in MLS who aren't already with the U20s. I think it's basically Morris, Tolkin, Flach, Campbell, and Pulskamp (all of who I included). There's others of course, but I don't think they are quite at the same level yet.

    And we have both Nations League and Gold Cup next year, and I feel like some of the European guys who go to the World Cup might get that off after a long season with a World Cup in the middle. Might as well take a look at guys like Vazquez and others and start to integrate them into the pool.
     
  18. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would think this would be a good time to get Miles Robinson back in. I'm sure he'll be rusty as hell, but it'll help him prep for the upcoming season as well as get him more familiarity with his teammates, whoever they may be.
     
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  19. SoccerFanInIA

    SoccerFanInIA Member

    Sporting KC
    United States
    Oct 28, 2021
    Does anyone know an ETA on his return? The injury happened in May right?
     
  20. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Man, oh man, so much just depends that it’s almost impossible to have a semi-educated guess in the direction to go.

    Personally, I would like to see get a new coach. Jesse Marsch would be my dream coach.... I love watching Leeds play, and I miss having fun watching my team play like the way I’ve enjoyed watching them. But will that happen? It won’t be for a good reason if he’s available then. And there’s so much quick turnaround. I also just don’t see the USSF firing Berhalter so soon. And that includes if we go 3 and out.

    You all know I have my faults with Berhalter. But if I’m Berhalter, I’m making this argument: “I built this 2022 team for 2026. Let me coach the team that I’ve built.” Of course, we all have our rebuttal to that. But he’s going to have a leg to stand on with that argument.

    That said, I’m going to say, if I’m the coach, be that Berhalter or someone, the first thing I want to do in a January Camp is cast my wide net and see who’s ready and who’s not. That means a lot of potentially experimental call ups.

    It also means possibly letting go of our old guard: Johnson, Zimmerman, Long, Arriola, and Morris depending on where you stand on the matter.

    There’s also the players transferring in and transferring out issue.

    And, our head space, isn’t really in that framework just yet.

    But where is the fun in all that? Here’s a master list of players to consider (I did not include the u20’s who I think need to have their own camp).

    Goalkeepers: Drake Callender, Roman Celentano, JT Marcinkowski, Sean Johnson, Gabriel Slonina*

    Right Backs: DeAndre Yedlin, Shaq Moore, Brooks Lennon, Julian Gressel, Kyle Duncan

    Left Backs: John Tolkin, DeJuan Jones, Andrew Gutman, Marco Farfan, Chase Gasper

    Center Backs: Matt Miazga, Walker Zimmerman, Henry Kessler, Tayvon Gray, Miles Robinson, Justen Glad, Mauricio Pineda

    Midfielders: Kelyn Acosta, Aiden Morris, Cristian Roldan, Paxton Pomykal, Eryk Williamson, Johnny Cardoso, Leon Flach, Keaton Parks, Josh Atencio

    Wingers: Jordan Morris, Paul Arriola, Ben Bender, Alan Sonora, Niko Gioacchini, Chris Mueller

    Forwards: Jesus Ferreira, Brandon Vazquez, Jeremy Ebobisse
     
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  21. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Varas is independent of Berhalter.

    He's actually quite new to this scene.
    If Berhalter isn't retained, Varas still will be.

    It could be like 2017 when everybody was gone other than the U20 coach Tab Ramos.

    He IS part of the whole FC Dallas cabal. As is current USMNT assistant Luchi Gonzalez, of course. At one point it looked like a quarter of the World Cup roster might be former FCD academy players. But it looks like some aren't going to make it due to injury or selection. McKennie, Richards, Ferreira, Pepi, Cannon, Moore, Acosta. Zimmerman was also drafted by FCD as a teen, and developed there.
     
  22. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    We have a Sporting Director and a GM -- while I'm sure Berhalter works with him and I'm also sure there's a desire to have some level of tactical consistency, I don't think he makes the hiring and firing decision. That's kind of the point of having a Sporting Director separate.

    Furthermore, Varas' equivalent of the WC is the U20 WC in the summer -- we're not going to change U20 head coaches before that barring a U20 disaster. Which seems hard to do at this point.
     
  23. OlympiquedeMarseille

    Apr 18, 2012
    Ottawa
    Club:
    Ottawa Fury
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
  24. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Questions that I have is will Gabriel Slonina, Djordje Mihailovic, Johnny Cardoso, Alan Sonora, and/or Paxten Aaronson be available for this one? Or anyone else we know of who is on that going abroad or playing for a club that’ll be on a break during this time?
     
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  25. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Probably just Sonora.

    Other guys (like a Tolkin), could also move and be unavailable.
     
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