Cameron Carter-Vickers at Celtic

Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad' started by BostonRed, Aug 13, 2014.

  1. RidiculousLichaj

    May 18, 2012
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The competition level would definitely be lower, but plenty of CBs have had success at Celtic and gotten moves to other clubs. He’s almost certainly get playing time. Give me Celtic over a permanent move to Bournemouth.
     
  2. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    About 70% of the worst flops in the Premier have been guys signed by either Sunderland or Newcastle. There's a reason for that: no one wants to live in those areas, so those two have to pay extra just to get average guys to agree to move there.

    Now imagine if Luton got promoted...
     
  3. YankatOxford

    YankatOxford Member+

    Oct 15, 2007
    Celtic would not be ideal for his development … but it might suit his current skillset reasonably well.

    From the Scottish Hulk school of defending, “CCV jump big high. Win ball in air. Hoof clear. Eat haggis.”
     
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  4. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Celtic & Newcastle are leading the pack:

     
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  5. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Pete: "So what can you tell me about this Cameron guy?"
    Scout: "He's big, he's strong, and he's cheap because his contract ends tomorrow."
    Pete: "I'm in."
     
  6. kruck

    kruck Member+

    Jan 12, 2008
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    SV Werder Bremen
    Cool. I hope he takes his shot at the EPL. He's 23 and has played 100+ games in the championship. Feels like now is the time.
     
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  7. frankburgers

    frankburgers Member+

    May 31, 2016
    If he goes to Celtic, it will knock him out of usmnt contention. Equivalent to a little better than USL.
     
  8. m vann

    m vann Moderator
    Staff Member

    Colorado Rapids, Celtic FC, & Louisville City
    Sep 10, 2002
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Celtic FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The league is subpar. I think we can all agree on that. But playing for the likes of Celtic (and as much as I don’t like to admit, Rangers) is an experience you don’t get anywhere. It’s cut throat. Good players - some that have gone on to better clubs / leagues - have bombed at both clubs because of the pressures associated with the Old Firm. It’s insane what players go through at Celtic and Rangers. Shit you’d never believe. it will make or break you. I don’t think going to either Old Firm club kills your USMNT chances. It shouldn’t, anyway. I love CCV. I love his play. I love his overall game but if I’m being straight up honest, I haven’t seen a big jump in his game from age 20-23. I haven’t. That’s what’s holding him back from the USMNT. With that said, I still think he’s USMNT material and deserves a legit shot. Wherever CCV moves…. It’s the biggest and most important move of his career. If he chooses Celtic, awesome. He chooses elsewhere, awesome. I just want the dude playing, improving, and putting himself in position for Berhalter to say “yes” to his inclusion.
     
  9. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    Celtic is dangerous for his NT chances. Seriously, it'd probably be smarter for him (at least from the NT perspective) to go to MLS. Most of his competition are average or above average older MLS players right now. He's 23, has performed well in a similar or better level in Europe, and has been effectively ignored.

    Berhalter has shown that, more often than not, the only way to guarantee playing time is to start in a top 5 league, or be named Acosta/Yeuill.

    Hope he takes his shot at Newcastle.

    People here poopoo him like he's 30 years old. The guy has already accomplished more than most of the CBs picked over him, and is still young and likely to improve.
     
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  10. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i agree newcastle would be a much better move simply based on the idea of getting to the highest level possible, in position to face the toughest comp possible, is the best way to develop, grow and improve.

    im not sure i agree with the top 5 guarantees playing time part, though. theres no way to talk about this without generalizing (i know everyone is as unique and special as a beautiful snowflake and all that)- but morales and chandler never stuck. people couldnt wait to replace yedlin even in his years starting at newcastle. berhalter yanks around one of our most talented players ever to keep robinson off the pitch.

    again- everyone has their story, but is that short list not at least a 3rd of our top 5 starters in recent years? let me put it like this- who has berhalter brought in based on a move to a higher level? thats not rhetorical, im asking.

    my point is- in the scope of the national team- im not sure this decision moves the needle. still think newcastle is the best move for his career (full stop) but id be surprised if hes factoring the nats in- and dont think he should. just wait for 23 and hope we have a different manager. berhalter has made it exceedingly clear he isnt interested.

    so if celtic are going to pay him more, or if his life would be more enjoyable then why not?
     
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  11. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    Can't argue with that, other than has Berhalter even been in charge long enough to really ignore those guys? By the time NT games really started, Morales was in the B2 (seems he had a cup of coffee in late '19 with NT). The bigger sinner with him was Arena. Chandler I can understand, as he wasn't getting many minutes in the BL by the time Gregg was hired (1200 in 19/20, just 400 the next season).

    Your best point is Robinson, who is by most (all?) accounts excelled in the EPL, yet gets passed over frequently in favor of other guys (including 1 on the same team that played maybe 1 game until they were relegated).

    Otherwise - anyone playing in a top 3-5 league, and I don't mean just on a team in said league, I mean playing legitimate minutes...is getting starter-level minutes for the US. Weah, for example, is more similar to your examples, even though he's younger/has potential. He's just not playing enough to demand a spot in the starting 11.

    That said - if CCV went to Newcastle and turned in starters minutes, I agree with you, i could see him still getting passed over. It does seem Berhalter holds dual nats to a different/higher standard (all the guys you mentioned, as well as CCV). But still, a starter in the EPL would be something Gregg likely can't ignore, and even with ARob, he's firmly in the mix now, despite taking a backseat mostly to Cannon, who simply isn't as good of a player.
     
  12. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    morales was starting (your original premise) in the bund the first year of berhalters tenure when cm spots were occupied by the (origial) "group". i didnt mention weah- or hoppe for that matter- due to limited minutes. sarge was starting while we were getting all zardes all the time. i mean, pulisic is technically a role player under tuchel.

    im not interested in breaking down every case (and this certainly isnt the thread for it), ill just say again i dont believe theres a ton of consistency in either minutes (which shouldnt be an overwhelming factor) in top league stature nor production at "lower" levels.

    the surest path seems to be a) an undeniable talent, contributing to a cl/el team or b) get an invite to jan camp and eventually make a move to a marginal euro league. (ill leave "be solid in mls" alone for now)

    ccv doesnt fit either of berhalters templates.
     
  13. The Irish Rover

    The Irish Rover Member+

    Aug 1, 2010
    Dublin
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    Nonsense. Complete and utter bollocks in fact.

    The SPL average is better than the Austrian BL and not less than the Danish Super Ligaen or the Swiss Super League, which is a decent comparison - only two teams in it, with the rest dreaming of the EL qualification rounds - and nobody has been objecting to Siebatcheu's callups, have they?
     
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  14. The Irish Rover

    The Irish Rover Member+

    Aug 1, 2010
    Dublin
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    As @m vann has said, the level of off-the-pitch pressure that players are under at the Old Firm is incredible, and that's doubly so for GKs and defenders. Rangers and Celtic are equals, so derbies tend to be decided by individual errors, while the other sides are so far below you that it's a challenge to maintain focus. Every single mistake you make will be pored over for weeks - even if it only leads to a corner kick. You either step a level or ten in concentration or, like Aiden McGeady, you'll wind up at Sunderland.

    On top of that, there's plenty of European competition and, because the fans aren't that impressed by a treble any more, European respectability is required: the EL group stages is a minimum and even the CL group stages is only "well done". To really impresses the fans takes - successful - UEFA ball in January.

    The league isn't good, but everything else about Celtic and Rangers is top level. If CCV has what it takes to be a leader there, it'll be 3 seasons and then the EPL or maybe even a CL side (Tierneny, Moussa Dembele and Jermaine Frimpong). If he simply has what it takes, he'll do 3-5 seasons and then it's back to the Championship, but with a boxful of silverware (Scott Sinclair).

    Celtic could be a stepping-stone move. Newcastle would probably be a ceiling.
     
  15. frankburgers

    frankburgers Member+

    May 31, 2016
    Bollocks!! Celtic plays 9 bad teams. One good team and one decent team.

    personally, pefok isn’t that good either imo.
     
  16. frankburgers

    frankburgers Member+

    May 31, 2016
    Rangers won the league by 20 points. It’s a one team league as of now. And the old firm isn’t every weekend. Some of these posters live in 1998.
     
  17. The Irish Rover

    The Irish Rover Member+

    Aug 1, 2010
    Dublin
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    “Celtic is a massive club – people still underestimate how big it is – with European football and I spent two fantastic seasons there. I learned a lot about football and life. The European nights were outstanding, I learned a lot about how to deal with certain strikers.
    Then there’s the Scottish Premiership. It isn’t the hardest in the world but it’s a league where everyone expects you to win and that was something new for me to deal with because Willem II and Groningen were never teams people expected to win.”

    That's this guy's opinion, but I'm sure you know football better than he does.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. The Irish Rover

    The Irish Rover Member+

    Aug 1, 2010
    Dublin
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    After Celtic lost the plot by replacing a thoroughly modern coach like Brendan Rodgers with a dinosaur in Neil Lennon, who then proceeded to lose the dressing room wholesale.

    And I really doubt that too many Rangers fans - and nobody in the Rangers dressing room - thinks it's going to to be a one-team league again next season. Postecoglou is an out-of-left-field appointment, and it takes time for him to get his ideas across, but his record is of constantly improving players.
     
  19. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ah yes, the ol "big club" argument. so specious, so relevant eighty years ago!
     
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  20. m vann

    m vann Moderator
    Staff Member

    Colorado Rapids, Celtic FC, & Louisville City
    Sep 10, 2002
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Celtic FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What world are you living in? It’s still relevant today. Look around Europe.
     
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  21. FC Tallavana

    FC Tallavana Member+

    Jul 1, 2004
    La Quinta
    #2821 FC Tallavana, Jun 30, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2021
    That's ridiculous. Players who have made good contributions to the USMNT have been at far worse clubs in similar leagues.
     
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  22. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    are you talking about celtic in particular, or all the nottingham forests of the world?

    cause when you have to describe yourself as a "big" club all i hear is "we won/competed for trophies decades ago and a lot of people still come".

    im not trying to dump on your (or anyones) club, but "big" clubs are roughly malmo with history.
     
  23. Eldinter

    Eldinter Member

    Jul 28, 2009
    Fort Wayne, IN
    Club:
    FC Internazionale Milano
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Since we're trying to play proactively, I think there is value in USMNT players playing for clubs that dominate the ball and have to break down the opposition. It would force CCV to get better on the ball and his distribution, which is his biggest weakness. Similar to Miazga at Anderlecht, though Belgian league is higher level opposition than small sides in SPL.
     
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  24. kruck

    kruck Member+

    Jan 12, 2008
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    SV Werder Bremen
    I don't want to see him go to Celtic. I don't know how beneficial "Old Firm pressure" will be to his further development while playing in a very poor league. There's pressure at every professional club. Someone is always trying to take your spot. There's pressure to make Europe. There's pressure to not be relegated. I mean, Newcastle is likely going to be in a relegation fight. The implications of which are 100's of millions of pounds, club staff's jobs, player wages etc etc. That's a lot of pressure.

    Plus he would be playing in a better squad at Newcastle and he would be playing and developing in a much much superior league.

    I think young players being hardened in a relegation fight is great actually. That's the real deal. That's being forged in the fire IMO.
     
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  25. The Irish Rover

    The Irish Rover Member+

    Aug 1, 2010
    Dublin
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    It's often said that Americans, coming from such a new country, don't really understand the power of history and tradition. Perhaps so, but the power of cold, hard cash is universally understood.

    2020-21 transfers: Jeremie Frimpong (to Leverkusen, €11.00m), Patryk Klimala (RB Leipzig, €4.5) Eboue Kouassi (Genk, €1.5m)
    Total: €16m
    UEFA: EL Group Stage

    2019-20 transfers: Keieran Tierney (Arsenal, €22.00m), Dederyck Boyata (Hertha Berlin, undisclosed/free)
    Total €22.00m
    UEFA: EL Group Stage & Round of 32

    2018-19 transfers: Moussa Dembele (Lyon €22.00m), Stuart Armstrong (Southampton, €8m), Erik Sviatchenko (Midtjylland, €1.2)m
    Total €31.00m
    UEFA: EL Group Stage & Round of 32

    2017-18 transfers: Emilio Izaguirre (Al Fayha, €1.4m)
    Total €1.4m
    UEFA: CL Group Stage & EL Round of 32

    2016-17 transfers: Stefan Johansen (Fulham, €2.3m), Steafan Sckepovic (Getafe, €1.2m)
    Total €3.5m
    UEFA: CL Group Stage

    2015-16 transfers: Virigil Van Dijk (Southamption, €16m), Adam Matthews (Sunderland, €2.5m)
    Total €18.5m
    UEFA: EL Group stages
     
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