Calling Out John Wagner

Discussion in 'FC Dallas' started by sweeper33, Oct 23, 2003.

  1. sweeper33

    sweeper33 Member

    Jul 24, 2000
    Who killed the Burn?

    Dragon Stadium killed the Burn. Don't even argue this, we all know it.

    Field Turf,
    Metroplex location,
    football lines,
    attendance,
    high school atmosphere,

    Every aspect of the move to Dragon Stadium proved to be a nail in the coffin for this franchise. It affected the player's attitudes, Latino attendance, game day fan experience, pricing, injuries, team practices... everything.

    Who selected Dragon Stadium as the 'home' of the Dallas Burn? John Wagner. If you have proof to the contrary please post it here. And I don't want a revisitation of the City of Dallas/Cotton Bowl lease agreement in this thread. There are plenty of places the Burn could have called home for two seasons. John Wagner chose Dragon Stadium because he lives in the community and was probably familiar with the stadium.

    The point is I DON'T KNOW. John Wagner has never spoken in a public forum about the move of the Burn from the Cotton Bowl to Dragon Stadium. The man that I consider to be the most responsible for the demise of a once proud franchise hides behind the skirt of HSG.

    Season ticket holders, the few that are left, are considering bailing on the 2004 season and I don't blame them. John Wagner needs to appear in a public forum, like Inside Soccer with listener call-in, and answer for his transgressions against the Dallas Burn franchise.

    And if you consider this to be too-little too-late at this point in the season then I propose that he deserves his 'thirty lashes' while answering the hard questions from his paying customers.

    And Mr Wagner, I don't give a good goddam about your schedule as an officer in a major corporation. A phone-in interview next week on Inside Soccer will suffice.

    Buzz, get John Wagner on Inside Soccer next week! And John Wagner, if you're a man, you'll accept the challenge.
     
  2. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Actually, he spoke before about 10-15 Inferno types several months ago. He did own up to being the main one behind the move but figured on beer (bad miscalculation) and didn't count on the different surface being a bad fit for the team's style at the time. The one really good thing to come out of Dragon is that they are no longer considering artificial grass. They definately were before the debacle. How would you like it if they went straight from the Cotton Bowl to Frisco, everything was great but they had that stuff there in place of grass? Probably for-e-ver.
     
  3. soccerdad19

    soccerdad19 New Member

    Aug 17, 2003
    My experience with John Wagner: I asked
    my Burn account executive for an address
    to write to John Wagner, and Ali Bradshaw
    gave me his email address. I wrote of the many
    concerns and issues of season ticket holders and Burn fans, and John wrote back within a day
    and gave me an office phone to call him
    at to discuss my concerns. I have not called
    him yet, but his prompt reply and openess
    to discuss concerns showed me he does
    care, and is at least making himself available
    to fans who write to him. But bottom line, he needs to be heard on Inside Soccer next week.
     
  4. sweeper33

    sweeper33 Member

    Jul 24, 2000
    I'm encouraged by this. And I'd like to hear the man talk. How about it, Inside Soccer?
     
  5. 3rd Degree

    3rd Degree Member

    Feb 6, 2000
    Dallas
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  6. PaulGascoigne

    PaulGascoigne Member

    Feb 5, 2001
    Aotearoa/NZ
    Let's not be too hard on any one person or people.

    I think it's interesting how it came down. A certain frequent poster here and on the Burn list (no names), who was pretty close to the club (without being an employee) was basically advertising about how great the move would be, to the point where it sounded almost *like* they were being paid to do p.r. for the move. The move sounded good under such conditions.

    Overall, on this board I remember mixed comments about the move, but it's not like the average person had intense feelings on the subject. In such a situtation, a few well-placed comments can often go a long way. You don't want to go against your club, right?

    I think now that our tenous fan base is teetering on the brink (not to mention our woes on the field), we need to spend more time worrying about what to do now rather than about pointing fingers about a crappy decision that can't be changed.

    Rather than hang one person, let's all blame ourselves for not checking into the situation further. Frankly, I guess a lot of people thought that two years just couldn't make a lot of difference either way. And the decision was bound to have the support of those (to borrow from Tricky Dick) Nattering Nabobs of Negativism who always hated the Cotton Bowl, were happy to have games anywhere in the suburbs, no matter what other conditions were applicable. Let's face it--who knew?
     
  7. MjrGrubert

    MjrGrubert BigSoccer Supporter

    May 22, 2003
    Whitefish, MT
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well I must say I knew it was going to be a disaster. Ask Ali!
    Others did too.
    PS It's obvious.
     
  8. PaulGascoigne

    PaulGascoigne Member

    Feb 5, 2001
    Aotearoa/NZ
    No, it wasn't "obvious." It is obvious in hindsight. I think it was a bad decision, and perhaps poor research and "groupthink" (don't rock the boat) played into the decision. But there appeared to be many pluses and minuses.

    The fact is that since you or these other modern-day Cassandras couldn't or wouldn't speak up when it would have made a difference, it makes no sense to turn around and complain now.

    If you indeed "knew" that it was going to be a bad decision, then you are more to blame for not speaking up than the rest of us who were merely not enlightened enough to know in advance how bad a situation the team was getting into.
     
  9. Noah Dahl

    Noah Dahl New Member

    Nov 1, 2001
    Pottersville
    BULLS**T

     
  10. MjrGrubert

    MjrGrubert BigSoccer Supporter

    May 22, 2003
    Whitefish, MT
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sure I could probably have done something more.
    I did however strongly complain to Ali and Shawn and post something on that pitiful Dallas Burn board (before I was enlightened enough to find Big Soccer). I got a life and protesting in front of HSG etc seemed a little extreme.
    They were pretty sneaky and quick about changing it by doing the move in the dead of winter when fan interest is low. Bottom line is not enough protests were heard in the right places to matter when there was a chance to stop this moronic death march. It probably wouldn't have mattered anyway, the die was cast.
    Anyway time to move on. As the PA sadly annouced on Saturday ("The Dallas Burn looks forward to seeing you in Dragon stadium next year")
    we are not going back to the beloved Cotton Bowl.
    FSW/EPL/Champions League beckons though so life ain't all bad!
     
  11. burning247

    burning247 Member+

    Liverpool FC
    England
    Sep 16, 2000
    Dallas
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    We can't blame ourselves, we have no say in the matter. We can bitch and moan all we want but when it all comes down to it, Wagner makes the decisions and we are not him. So we can, however, blame his dumb ass for doing this bull sh!t. We are the disgrace of the league on and off the field, and I (and every other Burn fan) have the right to be pissed.
     
  12. Rocket

    Rocket Member

    Aug 29, 1999
    Chicago
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    While some Burn fans with inside connections may have been aware that the team was looking into moving out of the Cotton Bowl, most of us were unaware of these goings on.

    The announcement in January that the team was moving to Dragon Stadium came as a surprise to us, and by the time the announcement was made, it really didn't seem as though there was anything we could have done to make them change their mind.

    Also, we didn't think the move would turn out nearly this bad since Burn management kept reassuring us that they'd do whatever they could to try to minimize the visual impact of the football lines.

    This, of course, turned out to be a lie, since in their agreement with Southlake, the Burn are not allowed to mark or cover the field in any way, including something as simple (and harmless) as using yellow chalk to mark the soccer lines.
     
  13. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Actually, the agreement allows them to do that. The agreement allows them to completely paint the field.

    However, the agreement also basically says that they have to put it back the way they found it.
     
  14. Noah Dahl

    Noah Dahl New Member

    Nov 1, 2001
    Pottersville
    After each game?

    (Or could they lay grass over it for a couple months? ;))
     
  15. Viking64

    Viking64 Member

    Feb 11, 1999
    Tarheel State
    That's what I was thinking! Cripes pay an engineering firm to pull up the turf, put down grass, and then put it back! A field like that is only 250,000 to build from scratch. Whatever you save under that you make back in a better product on the field, and fewer injuries.
     
  16. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not sure. I'd have to check. Off the top of my head, I think it's "whenever CISD wants them to put it back to the way they got it."

    I guess they could've put in a temporary grass field. Maybe they could've used the grassy tiles that were being used at Giants Stadium until last year.

    In any case, all this would require that HSG spend some serious coin, and we all know how that goes.
     
  17. sweeper33

    sweeper33 Member

    Jul 24, 2000
    To show ANY good faith effort to get paying customers back into "Wagner's Folly" HSG MUST:

    1. Chalk or paint full soccer field markings onto the Field Turf - and shut the f*** up about the cost

    2. Make the entire South stands into General Admission

    3. Give parking passes to season ticket buyers

    4. Reduce ticket/parking prices overall

    After that we can discuss local broadcasts, beer, confetti & fan signage, etc...


    I said nothing when the Burn was pulled from the Cotton Bowl. Shame on me. I will not let a single day go by during the off-season without bringing shame on John Wagner and HSG for their short-sighted decisions that have emascualted this once proud franchise.

    "Won't Get Fooled Again" is a great theme song for 2004. It should be played at the beginning of every home match.

    A few days left until the Inside Soccer broadcast. Will John Wagner show his face/voice?
     
  18. burning247

    burning247 Member+

    Liverpool FC
    England
    Sep 16, 2000
    Dallas
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Ok, lets step back and think. The season starts in April, lets say they pay someone to paint over ALL of the football markings. Suddenly we are only dealing with bad turff instead of horrid, ugly lines. And it should stay like this until August when High School Pointy ball becomes priority. Thats the majority of the season with no Football lines. Would it really be that much to paint the field TWICE in one season? You'd think they owe us that much at least. Sheesh.
     
  19. PaulGascoigne

    PaulGascoigne Member

    Feb 5, 2001
    Aotearoa/NZ
    Re: BULLS**T

    Noah. Read my post again. It is pretty clear that I was not suggesting that "vocal" people were to blame--quite the contrary.
     
  20. Rocket

    Rocket Member

    Aug 29, 1999
    Chicago
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's good to know. I had heard some gossip to the contrary.

    It still doesn't excuse them, though, for not making the soccer markings more distinguishable. The last home game I went to (vs. the Revs in October), the yellow soccer lines were so faint that it was a total joke.

    And if HSG is too cheap to put decent soccer markings on the field next year, I bet we could find some fans to volunteer to put them on for free if HSG provides the materials.
     
  21. Noah Dahl

    Noah Dahl New Member

    Nov 1, 2001
    Pottersville
    Yeah... thus my ;)

    Sorry if I misread the "wouldn't speak up" part. This is obviously my "hot-button" issue. Fluck with the grass and I start foaming at the mouth.

    But I think we're the ones who have to hold onto all the gains that were made. The commitment to grass playing fields was just like "no commercial interruptions." The same economic arguments for having commercials during game time still exist, but the generally accepted truism is, in the end, you can't sell soccer that way. Sometimes I wonder if guys like Jon Wagner know this stuff.
     
  22. 3rd Degree

    3rd Degree Member

    Feb 6, 2000
    Dallas
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I asked. Doesn't look good.
     
  23. ArsenalTexan3

    ArsenalTexan3 Member

    Arsenal
    Sep 24, 2002
    Jakarta
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Re: Re: Calling Out John Wagner

    That yellow chicken. Just goes to show you who he is really is trying to market to if he isn't willing to answer questions from TRUE fans.
     
  24. 3rd Degree

    3rd Degree Member

    Feb 6, 2000
    Dallas
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They didn't say why. He could be out of town for all I know.
     
  25. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Re: Re: Calling Out John Wagner

    I'm almost done transcribing the interview that I did with John Wagner a few weeks ago. Long hours at work have slowed my progress, but once I'm done, it'll be at 3rd Degree.

    And if I may say so, I think that once you read what he said to me, you might get a different view of the guy and his vision for the team. Honestly, part of the reason why I did the interview is because we know so little from the horse's mouth and we've only been able to judge by what has happened in the last year, which has admittedly been mostly bad.

    No, he's not Andy Swift. But I think that he's a bit different from the person that often gets portrayed here.

    FWIW, it took a while for me to get 30-40 minutes on his schedule to do my interview. Apparently, he's a pretty busy guy. So I can understand why it might be a little tough for Buzz to get him on the radio show.
     

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