CAL's nine recruits are all from California. I heard last year that CAL's AD was encouraging more in-state recruits to keep scholarship costs down.
It will be interesting to see if he is encouraging that with Men's Football, too. It's always fun to see what new and inventive ways AD's can find to make end runs around Title IX.
But why such a large class? Cal's problems in the past have been rooted in the fact that by carrying such large rosters the coach causes discontent. Unless there are players quitting that I'm unaware of this class will put the roster over 30! How can any coach keep that many players happy?
I think one has to look at the rationale as to why some girls will join a team when they may seem to have little to no chance of starting, let alone, getting on the field. Many of these girls play soccer because they love it, not because it is a means to an end. And for many parents and kids, the opportunity to matriculate at Berkeley is hard to pass up, even if all they offer is books. Even if they were non-varsity athletes, once they get to campus, they will most likely be involved in some activity, be it intramural athletics, Greeks, the paper, the band, some organization . . . endless possibilities and choices that will take up 20 hours/wk. Just like these other choices, being part of a team is more than just about herself. It's about what she can contribute during her time there to make her team/group/Greek better - just because she was part of it.
I couldn't agree more with your comments about college life and everything, but at Cal one of the recurring issues every year is playing time and the size of the roster. It just feels like the coaches never learn. A 30 person roster is just too much. It asks for trouble. I guess this is more frustration than anything. Cal should be an elite soccer program like Stanford, SCU, UCLA and USC here in California. Heck, at least Cal has a legit soccer field (sorry USC fans) so why can't the program take the next step. For me, it's seeing these types of decisions (too large of a roster) that kill this program.
Every college has a title IX number that is mandated by the adminastrion. SOme schools 24 some colleges in Cali are 30. Its a Title IX thing no coach wants 30 girls can't keep them all happy. But if they don't want to get in trouble with AD you hold the number they tell you to.
It doesn't matter how many players you carry, the only thing the NCAA cares about is the number of scholarships given out. That's 14 for every D1 school that's fully funded. Other things the NCAA looks at are facilities, coaching salaries, promotion, etc, compared to equivalent male programs. Right now, the NCAA makes allowances for Basketball and football, but eventually, they won't. my beef with AD's at some schools is they are trying to even out football's 87 scholarships with women's sports that take few facilities and little funding. The university of Oregon just started Baseball for men, and counter balanced the scholarships for women by eliminating men's wrestling and creating the pseudo-sport of competitive cheer. It's not that I have anything against cheer, but all you need is a mat and however any scholarships you need to counterbalance football. For men's baseball, they're going to spend millions on a state of the art stadium. a case in point is the Cal example with soccer. To save costs, apparently, they are getting all instate soccer players except 2 foreign players who's scholarships may be paid for by their countries. The men's football team is 25% out of state.
Re: Cal Recruits/Over-recruiting Calls from discontented families whose daughters were over recruited can cause "trouble with the AD" too. I have difficulty believing that any AD would mandate a huge roster size, especially when the NCAA only lets you dress 22 for the post-season and there are issues with travel, uniforms, practice space, AT support, etc. that result from such a large team. Using reserve or 'jv" games can work but that's difficult to manage as well, and costly. I would think ADs would look to sports like track and swimming to add female numbers if they had too - or just add female sports. That is actually the purpose of Title IX - increasing opportunities. I still think over recruiting is primarily caused by the insecurities and inexperience of the coach/staff or just laziness. It's easier to make sure you have 4-5 good seniors if you start with 10 freshmen for most coaches who "hedge their bets" as recruiters. They all will give you the party line that "she knew the risk she was taking" when the prospect was recruited - basically BS for a 17/18 year old whose career you will end after 2 years on your bench..... Fortunately, the web has exposed many of these over-recruiting programs and with a few clicks you can see what happened to kids from a few years ago. Check in on the Cal 10 after the start of the 2010 season. I asked Soccerbuzz to do a "retention ranking" once when they do their recruiting rankings and they had no interest. I'm sure they don't want to rock the boat that much but it would be interesting and is doable. Basically, what % of 2004 recruits were still on rosters and/or playing much in 2007? It would be pretty revealing I think......
Re: Cal Recruits/Over-recruiting Very revealing, I would assume. You would think the NCAA would be interested in this. The Cal website says there were 6 seniors last year on a roster of 30. Now add 9 freshmen and that's a roster of 33!!! Now, I'm sure some must have quit or are injured, but unless a third of the returning players walk away the roster is still huge. I just don't understand why any coach would take this on... and why I think Cal has been held back over the years.
Good info,BUT just so you know every women's college div 1 team has a mandated number of kids they must hold scholarship or not. Its title IX working backwards. Some school will say 18 and a coach takes 22 other schools have a MANDATE of 29 trust me I know of 4 div 1 colleges in cali that have a high number. Ask the coach if they HAVE to hold a certain number and they will all give you there title IX number. All you have to do is ask. AD's also care how many females are in an uniform. Money or not
Your information is wrong. The NCAA has mandated a maximum of 14 scholarships for women's soccer, Here;s a site that clearly gives the scholarship limits for all men's and women's sports http://www.educationplanner.com/education_planner/paying_article.asp?sponsor=2859&articleName=NCAA_Scholarship_Limits
Your information is wrong. The NCAA has mandated a maximum of 14 scholarships for women's soccer, Here's a site that clearly gives the scholarship limits for all men's and women's sports http://www.educationplanner.com/education_planner/paying_article.asp?sponsor=2859&articleName=NCAA_Scholarship_Limits
Isaid nothing about money I said number of people which is also a part of title IX. TRUST ME I used to work for a cali div 1 college we had to hold 29 mandated by the school it had nothing to do with who had money. Purely on number of kids playing. So you are wrong about this one. If you think im wrong go ask a div 1 coach and see what they say.
That may have been true at the school where you worked and other schools may have some target however there is no NCAA mandate and not all schools internally mandate a certain roster.
If my recollection is correct, in a way both are right about Title IX. There are scholarship availability rules. But also under Title IX, schools must maintain equal opportunity in sports for men and women. One of the key indicators of equal opportunity is an equal proportion of men and women (compared to the total enrollments of men and women) playing sports. Although the proportion does not have to be equal, if it is not equal, then the school must be able to demonstrate this is because there is not an equal demand to participate in sports. Many schools, in part probably based on advice from their attorneys, don't want to take a chance on being able to demonstrate unequal demand and therefore go for equal proportions participating in sports.
Lets try this again. I said nothing about the NCAA. Title IX is a part of the LAW not NCAA. EVERY d1 college has a title IX number they must hit for girls playing sports. Do your research. CSUN 3 years ago had the bball team run 1 cross country meet. why? To add to the number of female athletes particapting in sports. That bball kid now counted as a bball player and a cross country so they got 2 athletes for the price of onw which allows mens sports to hold bigger rosters.There are schools with low numbers like 18 thats why you never hear about it but look at ucla,cal,ucsb,csuf all schools with over 30 not because they want to because there AD tells them is there title IX number
Yes but you've said that all administrations require programs to carry X number of players which is not true. I'm sure there are those that tell there coaches to hit a certain number but there are plenty who leave it to the coaches discretion. If you want to say all California schools have such a quota that's fine, I only have anecdotal experience with programs out there. However to say that every administration across the country spells out to their coaching staff how many players to carry on their roster that is just false. Yes, every school has a target number to hit to be in compliance (or near compliance in most cases) with Title IX but not every school fudges numbers or mandates bloated rosters to hit them.
Wrong every school has a number not all reach it and just take the slap on the rest. But every school in the ncaa d1,2,3 are all under the title IX governing law. Now if coachs dont care or ad's dont care because they know no one is looking at there school thats one thing but EVERY ncaa school has a particaption number that they title IX asked to reach. Just go ask.espically schools with football to counter that you will see big roster. cal,ucla,texas,colorado just go look.
I don't need to ask. Not every school has a number set for their soccer program and still manage to hit their number. As I said, you want to qualify your statements after the fact be my guest but I can tell you with first hand experience that there are many athletic departments that do not require a minimum roster size of their soccer program.
That's not what Uheardithear is saying. If a women's soccer program does not have restrictions or guidelines for the # on their soccer roster (like you say), it might be because they have a very large women's softball program and this provides all of the necessary female athletes as per Title IX rules, so they don't have to mandate their woman's soccer roster. But..if they didn't have the big women's softball (or volleyball, or track...), they would need to be sure the # of female athletes match regulation somehow, maybe with soccer. It doesn't have to be soccer...it has to be women's sports. Period. And the schools with big football programs have lots of male athletes, making it a challenge to be sure they have sufficient female athletes. This is where the problems arise and women's programs need to beef up their rosters...to equal the men's football rosters (which are astronomical). All Pac-10 women's soccer teams (that support men's football programs) have these very large rosters, some larger than others. If they don't, then another women's sports team is making up for it by having large numbers.
I understand the big number for an athletic department. What I took issue with was the implication that every soccer program has a roster number mandated from above. Perhaps I read too broadly but I interpreted this to mean that every college admin mandated a roster number for its women's soccer program. Illustrates my point beautifully. I understand that in big conferences you see big rosters for a reason. I understand every athletic department has a number to hit to be in compliance with Title IX. If it wasn't uheard's intention to say that every soccer program is given roster mandate from its AD that was unclear (at least to me) from the quote above.
Sorry it was said better 2 post ago. The whole program has a number to hit. As soccer is such a big sport in the us for women those teams ussally get the mandated number . But depending on the demographics it could change.ie In Nebraska if it is easier to get a softball roster of 25 then a soccer roster of 30 because of the local area love then thats what they will do. Sorry i meant whole dept. But ALOT of soccer teams have a number
It was probably the bouncing back and forth between program and department that confused me. When you say program I am thinking soccer program, with department meaning the whole athletic department. We're on the same page now.
The NCAA cares more than just about the 14 scholarships. There are gender equity issues which require women's programs to have minimum numbers while men's programs have a maximum. Unfortunately, adminstrators feel women's soccer can counter-balance football to some extent, more so than a sport like tennis or golf.
Well, yeah , you are right. The general principal set by the OCR (federal Office of Civil Rights) is that the schools need to provide equal competition and championship opportunities for men and women. In addition, the schools need to show an equal amount of support in terms of facilities, funding , publicity, coaching and support staff salaries, etc. Right now, I doubt that any D1 school has met that standard, and I'm fairly certain that no D1 school that has football comes even close. 87 scholarships and the money involved in D1 football ball is just too much to overcome. Football and Basketball were exempted, or at least treated differently than the rest of the programs on the theory that they were the "cash cows" of the NCAA and made the rest of the programs possible. (whether that is in fact true for football is closely guarded by the NCAA, though it is certainly true for Basketball) When you see references to "revenue sports" that's what they are talking about, not whether your Soccer or Lacrosse team makes money. The NCAA fought for that exception, and so far, the OCR has accepted it. So - how is the standard being met? well it isn't. At the beginning of the compliance effort, he NCAA negotiated a plan that would keep the OCR at bay as long as schools demonstrated "demonstrable progress" towards equal treatment for men and women. No timelines were insisted on by the OCR, no hard benchmarks. It was established early on that there couldn't be any backsliding, however, so when schools add men's programs, for instance, they have to add proportionally to women's programs. The idea was that over time, gender equality would occur. Schools also had to show there was SOME progress towards equity. The key issue has always been - How Much? Here's what the NCAA (and OCR) looks at: Athletic financial assistance (Scholarships) Accommodation of student interests and abilities (Sports Offerings) Provision of equipment and supplies Scheduling of games and practice times Travel and per diem allowance Tutoring Coaching, and coaches salaries Provision of locker rooms, practice and competitive facilities Provision of medical and training facilities and services Provision of housing and dining facilities and services Publicity Support Services Recruitment of student athletes You will note that Scholarships is at the top of the list. That's not merely an alphabetical accident. Every few years, ( I forget if it's 4,or 5. There may be an interim checkup. a full self criticism takes a couple years of faculty and staff committee time. If you have ever been at a school and involved in the process, it seems like it's continuous.) the NCAA does another review at each school to see what progress has been made. As an example, here's Western Illinois' documentation on the web of the process it has gone through since 1992: Achieving a Gender Neutral Environment I pick that school not because it has done the best title IX job (other schools haven't documented), but because it has certainly done a fine job of explaining how it has gone about the compliance process since 1992. Take an hour or so to go through the links at the top of the article. you'll learn a lot. When Western Illinois points out what it did, those are all steps it needed to do to show progress. Read Western Illinois' web pages if you have more interest. I've certainly left a lot out, but I'll include a link to show the sort of interplay between the NCAA and the OCR that happens all the time. NCAA Championship compliance Finally, there is the Equity in Athletics Disclosure Act, which mandates publication of the data. If you want to see how your school is doing compared to other schools, the Equity in Athletics Data Analysis Cutting Tool Website is a website with lots of information about each school - including participation, facilities, and funding. Search on your school to see what it does.