http://www.harktheherald.com/article.php?sid=74968&mode=thread&order=0 WOW, what a bombshell! And what a concept. That was some creative thinking which could really open the doors to a whole new line of competition at the NCAA level. But the NCAA stands to lose almost all control of men's collegiate soccer if this is the model for the future. Taking this a bit further, this could be the way to get a lot more games in for collegiate players for schools with true inter-collegiate programs (like most of us follow). First you play all summer on the SCU Bronco PDL team, then you start up the collegiate schedule in the fall. You could easily double the number of games played per year. I'm sure the NCAA will have some kind of 'not so nice' response to this, like a new rule saying you can't compete in PDL and retain NCAA eligibility, but then, I'm not sure the players would actually care in BYU's case, because they were playing club soccer anyway. BTW, I had no idea BYU had such a successful club team.
This needs to be merged with the BYU/Title IV discussion already started. It should be understood that this concept will never take off but it's fun to talk about. BYU had nothing to lose with PDL, they didn't have a soccer program. College AD's see soccer as part of a bigger NCAA sport's picture and having club teams is a major step backwards.
Were's the BYU thread? I looked around before I posted this one. Maybe I didn't so back far enough, but I thought this was fresh news. To reply to your point about the AD's perception of importance: I think you're underestimating the potential here. For some schools like Indiana, Virginia, UCLA, etc.. that is certainly true. But when a school, because of title ix has to choose between cutting the men's wrestling program or track program, etc... and keeping soccer, or keeping those and letting the soccer team play PDL under the Schools name, there might be a lot of interest. Last year SJSU almost cut thier men's soccer program after spending some of the year ranked #1. You don't think their AD will give the PDL option some consideration next time around? Not to mention all of the Big 12 schools who don't currently have collegiate men's soccer. If Nebraska, Texas, Colorado and Oklahoma can field a team in the PDL, I'm guessing that will happen soon. Nebraska and Texas already have strong women's programs.
Re: Re: BYU's way around Title 9 actually, there is a thread on this in the USL forum... i'm not sure what you mean by the byu/title 9 thread either as for what's being done... it's a huge deal, it could very well signal the death of ncaa soccer (one can only pray) and this is only a partial thing with title 9, in my book... ncaa programs for men have been expanding, but what this does is get around the ncaa regulations on when and how much you can train, how many matches you can play, paying players, grabbing highschool aged kids for your team, and drawing the interest of players that want a professional career... so they don't want to stagnate in the clutches of the ncaa byu isn't really going to make any headway in any of this however... they are simply going to be everyone else's test subject... if they succeed, others will follow... if they fail, others will try and fix their faults (besides *all* of their players will be byu students and they will remain amatuers) imagine what slu would be like if they left the ncaa's and played pdl ball instead... they could offer their players money, education, room, board, year round training... they could grab st. louis highschool aged players, people that don't go to college... they are already well recognized in the area and should be able to do well drawing sponsors and fans at this point, i feel that it's a matter of time before an ncaa team makes the move.. and others will follow
Re: Re: Re: BYU's way around Title 9 I thought about this also Jim, but you don't think this will effect youth participation that has sometimes been sold on the ability of a kid to get a college scholarship?
Re: Re: Re: Re: BYU's way around Title 9 huh? why wouldn't a college pdl team be able to offer scholarships? money? room? board? travel? better training? better coaching? ncaa athletic scholarships have nothing do with this, they regulate that stuff... the pdl is a pro/amateur league... teams can do what they want, if they want to offer a kid a free education... they can go right ahead and do that
One cautionary note. The NCAA and Title IX are not necessarily linked. Title IX is a federal law outside of the scope of the NCAA. It just is most frequently discussed within the context of college sports. I'd assume BYU did due diligence on this.
They are private but they must get federal funding of some sort if they are worried about Title IX. their general counsel was on the commission so they have to have some sort of vested interest.
I believe it does apply to them (and anyone else) IF they accept any federal funds whatsoever, in the form of financial aid, research grants, etc.
http://www.cjonline.com/stories/062302/ixt_basics.shtml They do. Even though it goes through the student, it ends up at the college.
My private university eliminated its wrestling team recently, and cited Title IX as the reason. It wasn't, but that's a different story.
I think it would be great if universities dropped their NCAA teams and following BYU's lead. If many schools did that, do you think the NCAA would try to stop them or discourage them? Any idea whether they could? How?
I like this quote from the BYU coach. (I don't necessarily agree with or support his position on Title IX, but I definitely share his view of the NCAA and hope he's right that BYU's opening a can of worms.) ``This will probably open a big can of worms,'' B.Y.U. Coach Chris Watkins said in a telephone interview from Salt Lake City. ``Economically, the charade of the N.C.A.A. as an amateur institution for the benefit of sports is over. What we've done makes good sense for us. We don't have to worry about gender equity or N.C.A.A. regulations. Title IX just got in the way.''
Sure they do...one of the groundbreaking cases in Title IX history was when Brown, a private school, was ordered by a court to reinstate two women's sports.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: BYU's way around Title 9 Gotcha. Since this league/team is not affiliated with the NCAA, it would be exempt from their rules I presume.
While I wasn't close to the situation, I did know the scuttlebutt. NCAA rules violations were the biggest problems, especially after they didn't clean up their act after getting busted for essentially (allegedly) paying a kid to come there. And when the coach started a national high school tournament for seniors with prospective recruits sending bio info and money to him, that kind of piques the NCAA's interest. Some relevant links to what is public: http://www.ncaa.org/releases/makepage.cgi/infractions/2000030701in.htm http://www.icemiller.com/resource_center/publish/1032959-III.htm http://www.icemiller.com/resource_center/publish/1032959-III.htm#_edn105 http://www.ncaa.org/releases/makepage.cgi/infractions/2000030701in.htm The key part of the puzzle is that when someone gives the college $5K to support the wrestling program, you don't give all of that money to a wrestler. And that's just the stuff I found online.
Thanks for the scoop, Brian. Of course, Title IX did essentially require Bucknell to put some men's program under the ax. They're a small college with 13 women's sports but still appear to be a long way from proportionality. It'll be interesting to see which men's program they cut next.
The New York Times has written an interesting article on this topic: http://nytimes.com/2003/03/07/sports/soccer/07BYU.html (n.b. I believe you will need to register with NYT in order to view the article). BYU is apparently generating alot of questions/interest from potential recruits. While Title IX apparently (news to me) applies to club sports as well as varsity sports, this could indeed be a way for colleges with football programs to offer a competitive outlet for male soccer players. I recommend the article.
I thought since the PDL was amateur, they weren't paid. Why the PDL? The associated team could play in D3 or for really big schools, A-League. Then the players would be school employees. Any reason this model couldn't work for many sports at different levels? (Of course, why even have the sport associated with the university?)
pdl is a mix of amatuers and pros... mostly amatuers though any university funds or priviledges will have to be also extended to an equal number of females... but if they are just getting the same funding and what not that they had before... i don't see how it could be in violation of title 9 (assuming they were in accordance with it as a club team)
Most universities don't even "officially" acknowledge clubs. Clubs will get some money from student paid activity fees. To join most clubs you don't even have to be a student. Most universities keep just enough distance from their clubs that they assume no liability for any potential wrong doings, accidents, etc. Clubs are officially sanctioned by the student government organizations--not by the schools. Most clubs will have faculty advisors, but being a faculty advisor will never be put in a job description, etc. It's something the faculty member volunteers to do. I can't see anyway that clubs would fall under Title IX regulations. I might have to read some more on this. It may work differently at private schools, but this is how it's worked at the three public universities that I have been associated.