bye, bye matt. wow, UNC has canned head coach matt doherty... some of the players parents sent letters to the university? what is this, high school? http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/news?slug=ap-ncarolina-doherty&prov=ap&type=lgns
Parents of Jackie Manuel and Sean May (his father Scott played at Indiana) have always had close contact with the coaching staff and the the athletic department, so this isn't exactly surprising. I agree with Wilbon on PTI - his biggest mistake was alienating Dean Smith, and by extension, Chapel Hill. He tried to get away from Deano's family philosophy, which was admirable to an extent, especially bringing in his own assistants, but we like to think of the program as just more than a basketball factory.
Folks at Kansas have been paying close attention (and no not because we think Roy will leave) because of Matt's ties with KU. Sad to see he couldn't pull it off there cause I'm a big fan of his. I'm kinda hoping that one of our assistants will be hired elsewhere and he'll come back as an assistant again. I think he just got in over his head at UNC cause he seemed confident and cool and Notre Dame. Oh well, it's been a tough few years for him. First he gets screwed out of a NCAA birth while at Notre Dame by UNC who didn't deserve to be there. Then Guthridge was basically already fired as he was making a suprise run to the final four. UNC didn't have much choice but to fire him and that's when Matt had to tell Troy Bell who'd he'd just convinced to stay for his senior season that he was leaving to go to UNC. Matt takes over a UNC program that was in shambles after the Guthridge fiasco. Matt apparently underachieves with the talent he has for the next two years. Matt beats his mentor Roy shockingly. End of season UNC tells Matt he's screwed the job up and he's out. Can't even imagine.
WTF? Doherty was not that bad. UNC wins one or two more games during the season, and they are in the Tourny - with a young team.
"D'oh"erty should have been given one more year. He had a winning year with Sean May out w/ a broken foot for most of it. A healthy May and this team would have been a 5-6 seed at least in the Dance. That being said, he wasn't that great of a "game coach." He had talent there, but he couldn't get them all on the same page for long stretches of games, especially at the end of them. Carolina, with the right hire, will be a Final Four contender next year assuming none of their freshman go pro. As a Duke fan, I hate Carolina with all my heart, but this move was needed. The timing might have been off, but something big needed to happen there in order to get them back where they belong.
Agreed. Carolina is not the place to go for a coach with just one year of experience as head coach. And this firing (or forced resignation, if you want to be technical about it) had very little to do with on-court performance. His relationship with players was strained before the season began and he was essentially given an ultimatum to clean things up around the house, and failed, apparently. It really didn't matter how much the team improved this season. Player-coach discourse was just bad for the program in the long run. That said, Doh had to deal with Gutheridge's horrible recruiting. Following players were recruited by Gut: Adam Boone Brian Morrison Neil Fingleton Jonathan Holmes Plus, Kris Lang and Jason Capel weren't going to lead the team anywhere. Better luck elsewhere, Doh.
For the most part... yes, but Roy took over National champion Kansas with zero years of experience in '88. It's possible, but tough to do.
is that the tall guy from england? he was highly recruited but never has done a damn thing... any ideas <other than roy williams and george karl> to replace him?
Yep, the tall English dude. Gut was a wonderful assistant a great guy all around, but his recruiting was horrible. One of his big mistakes was when he was recruiting Eddie Griffin. Griffin wanted to go to the same school as his friend Andre Barret, but Gut declined since he had already had Adam Boone. Boone turned out to be inadequate as an ACC point guard, while Barret had a solid career at Seton Hall. Larry Brown, believe it or not, is one of the Top 2 candidates. He has a clause in his contract preventing him from taking another job in the NBA, but not at the college level. He has expressed an interest in finishing his coaching career in Chapel Hill. Though I can't see him making a decision before the Sixers are eliminated from the playoffs, and his Olympic coaching duties would complicate things - though I assume Phil Ford would do most of the recruiting. And whether it's Brown, Williams or anyone else, Phil Ford is expected to be the head assistant/heir apparent. Non-Carolina names that have been thrown around include Kevin Sampson, Mark Few, Bill Self and the coach from Marquette.
I agree with pretty much everything Skip has said here and I'll add this. The problem was not so much that players were complaining, say the rumors, but that Doh was being verbally abusive in a way that was deemed intolerable from the perspective of the Carolina tradition. Add to this the fact that Doherty was AD Baddour's choice, while Larry Brown was Dean Smith's, and you've got the tough situation Matt found himself in today. I hope he manages to recover from this. I still remember him from his playing days, when he was one of those guys who always worked his ass off and made you proud to root for him no matter what.
Lucid - Several administrative points here : Doherty was not "calm and collected" at ND, he was a very fiery coach (which was needed after the quiet 'gentleman' MacLeod). A very good recruiter, but not the best game coach. He just didn't get along with the players, and once you lose the players, you lose the team, that's the way it goes now. It was Troy Murphy who stayed, not Troy Bell (the fine BC point guard). ND did not get "screwed" by NC. St. Louis screwed them by winning the C-USA title and eating up a spot that would have went to ND, the last team out.
Depends in if they decide to search only within the tree..... If thats true I think the leader would be Larry Brown. If he can deal with 7 years of AI then he deal with anything they throw at him in College. Others to consider: Tom Crean - Marquette Mark Few - Gonzaga Tim Floyd - NBA Bobby Gonzalas - Manhatten Rick Barnes - Texas (and former ACC coach with Virginia) Also, I'd more than welcome Matt Doherty at Penn State. We'd do great with him, we need exactly that kind of fire
My guess is that the top 2 candidates are Roy Williams and Larry Brown and after that, they'll go outside the family. I think that was the mistake they made last time, that they only looked at coaches with Carolina connection. Buzz Peterson may be a candidate, but I doubt it. Ditto for Eddie Fogler. George Karl may want the job but his contract will prevent him from taking it. Barnes was at Clemson actually, and he is not very well liked in Chapel Hill, to say the least. Either Mark Few, Tom Crean, Bill Self and Kelvin Sampson would have to be considered, imho. Also: The Matt Doherty Era: What Went Wrong
What's the story with Barnes? Didn't he and Deano almost get in a fistfight on the court? I think any of us would probably get the Carolina job before he did.
oops my bad. I didn't remember the history between the The Dean and him. I was just thinking of how turned a football mad school into a #1 seed in 4 years, and a preseason #1 next year.
As a UNC grad, let me shed some light on this... 1. Doherty was not fired because of his W-L record. The fact is, he just didn't relate to the players. They all HATED him. He didn't show any respect towards them and was constantly berating and demeaning them without building up their confidence. Now, this in and of itself is not reason to be fired. But combine this with the threat of transfers and the fact that it has, and will continue to hurt recruiting and the AD had no choice but to let him go. We lost David Padgett to Kansas because of the uncertainty over Doh's status. And even if Doh was given another year, there would continue to be speculation and turmoil over whether he would come back, thus further hurting recruiting. Kids won't commit to a school and a coach if the coach is on the fence. Look at the problems Clemson and UVa have had recruiting. If the coach might not be there when you get there, why commit to him? 2. Rick Barnes will never, ever, ever be UNC's head coach. He got in a fight with Dean. Cardinal sin #1. 3. The next coach? Roy Williams isn't doing anything to calm the rumors around him, but most UNC fans don't like Roy after he turned his back on us the first time. In fact, he is most often referred to as "Fredo Corleone" for betraying the family. The job is there for Roy or Larry Brown, its between them two.
What I meant by "confident and cool" (not "calm and collected") was that he fit in, he could handle it, he seemed lke he could handle more even, it seemed that Notre Dame was big enough challenge for him. I know his personality, I watched him for years at Kansas. My bad, been a few years and remembered it was Troy something. Notre Dame did get screwed because on selection sunday 63 teams were selected so far and it came down to Notre Dame or UNC. UNC was picked based off of their name when Notre Dame was more deserving. They kind of shut everyone up by making a run to the Final Four because it was a big controversy then. But still... they shouldn't have been there. That's my belief anyways.
Boo-yah Something to mention about the Roy rumors... Everyone keeps asking him "Why don't you just say you aren't interested if you don't want to answer questions anymore." He's stated over and over that does absolutely nothing cause it did nothing for Howland 3 weeks ago like he said in his press conference today. "This is the last press conference like this we'll have until I retire from the Univeristy of Kansas or they fire me." -Roy Williams, 3 years ago. Thanks for ruining OUR week North Carolina. Just because you can't keep your own house in order doesn't mean you have to ****************** up ours. Sorry for the harsh words directed at UNC but I'm getting sick of this and I'm becoming more of a Duke fan and my Kansas love for Dean Smith is dwindling day by day because it's pretty apparent he looks at UNC as miles better than his own school. We built you, you're forgetting that.I don't look at KU as miles better than UNC. They're both of equal stature and their histories are both interwoven together. You can't seperate the two so quit trying to do it Dean. In the next week, be prepared to see Chapel Hill Journalism at it's best like we saw 3 years ago. The websites have already reported that the deal is done, it's only a matter of time before the newspapers start printing "Welcome home Roy!" Little edit, Lucid. Just makings your image work!
Yep. My totally unbiased memory tells me that Barnes was inciting his collection of assassins and thugs to do violence to the saintly Tarheels. Moreover, IIRC Barnes went berserk himself, ripped off his shirt and charged Dean, who used kung fu to pull out Barnes' floating ribs and shove them up his nose. So, as Chayes said... And, moreover again, it's not like he impressed while he was in the ACC. All he ever did was come to Chapel Hill and take it between the cheeks. Who the hell in the Southern Part of Heaven would want him?
I started posting on a Carolina forum a while ago and made the mistake of asking why there was so much vitriol thrown Roy Williams' way, given a) Dean said he was still part of the Carolina family and b) I found it hard to fault him for sticking with his players at KU. The general consensus was (and this came from people posting anonymously on the Net, so take it for what it's worth) that Roy had reneged on an explicit, longstanding agreement that he'd be Dean's ultimate replacement after Gut had his run. That's why Dean went to him in the first place, not because he undervalues KU. That said, I still find it pretty easy to understand why Williams opted for players he knew and had recruited, and still hope he'll win it all this year.
Jay Bilas did a good job of interviewing Doherty on SC this evening. Doh handled himself well. Not much of substance said except for the description of what Baddour did not do in the 3 years prior to the dismissal: no warnings, no evaluations, no contact pertinent to the problems Baddour claimed to have noticed beginning in the first year of Doh's tenure. I also noticed that both the PTI guys said he'd be back as a DI head coach soon, while that insufferable drooling halfwit Digger Phelps said he was out.
I saw the Doh interview, but I wish I would have been able to hear it but I was at a bar, anything interesting? About why my respect for Dean Smith and UNC is dropping day by day.... Dean Smith plays basketball for KU under Phog Allen.... Dean Smith takes UNC coaching job.... fast forward to 1982... Kansas needs new head coach and they ask Dean Smith to come back to Kansas, Dean says no, but here's my assistant Larry Brown... Brown wins championship in '88 and bolts... KU needs a new head coach so they go back and ask Dean to come back to Kansas, Dean says no and says "Here's my assistant Roy Williams, have fun."... Dean Smith retires... Bill Guthridge named head coach... Gut retires (fired).... Roy expected to come back to North Carolina? Yes... Roy says no... UNC pissed... fast forward 3 years (2003)... Doh resigns (fired)... Roy expected to come back to North Carolina? Yes... to be continued.... Why is it acceptable for Dean Smith to turn down Kansas and send assistants but it's not ok for Roy Williams to turn down job and send former assistants (doh)? Dean belonged to Kansas but built a legacy at UNC, so why can't Roy, who belongs to UNC, do the same and build a legacy at Kansas? That's why I'm getting so pissed about this whole thing and why I'm too the point where I'm gonna say F you Dean and F you UNC. If Roy breaks his promise to us he's made numerous times ("I'm retiring as head coach of Kansas") and breaks his promise to his recruits this year ("I'm not going anywhere, I'll be the coach of Kansas") I'm going to be saying F you to Roy too. If Roy leaves now... he gets nothing. If he sticks around for the next ~15 years... he gets his own arena named after him and ownership of the Kansas basketball program like Phog Allen has now, and like Deano has now at UNC. It's a huge slap in the face to Kansas basketball, which is responsible for the UNC and Kentucky legacies among numerous other programs. It's the top of the greatest family tree in college basketball and for someone to think they are so high and mighty to disrespect that tree pisses me, and the rest of the Kansas fans off.
1. It was pretty good. No tears or whining from Doh, straightforward questions from Bilas (Duke's real gift to college basketball). Apparently Baddour told him that as many as 4 players threatened to bolt either to other schools or to the pros if he came back and that UNC had already lost 2 recruits because of the stories about Doh. Among other things, Doh said that Gut came to him at the end of the first year and told him being fiery and expecting fire in return from your players is all well and good, but [Doh] didn't have to use that kind of language. Doh said he really appreciated and respected that. Said also that the chair throwing incident took place while he was alone in a hall, and was a calculated motivational stunt. Said further that if he could do things differently he'd start with accepting that long-term contract at Notre Dame. Said a couple of pro-forma nice things about Dick Baddour, but clearly feels that he was shafted because Dick Baddour used no intermediate steps even though he claims to have been troubled by Doh's coaching techniques from year one: he just went directly from total support to demanding his resignation. He also said that the AD arranged for him to address the players at a specific time AFTER his departure was a done deal, which he refused, choosing instead to contact players individually on his own terms. Finally, he expects them to do well next year no matter who coaches them (that's got to sting: got the sense he could still taste next year's success). 2. Many Carolina fans were unreasonable about Williams' decision to stay at KU, IMO. I mentioned my questioning this on a Carolina message board. In tone, the response I got was along the lines of what you'd expect if a BS newbie came along and started getting pissy about Arena starting Freidel over Meola in the '02 WC. However, the only public comments the Deaner has made about Roy (that I've seen) since that incident have been nothing but gracious. As far as comparing Williams' decision to stay at KU, at one level that's a fair comparison. As I said, I respect Williams' rationale: sticking with his players. However, there's no way KU ever had any realistic hope that Smith would leave Carolina in 82. He'd been at Carolina nearly 20 years by that point and remade it as one of, if not the premier coaching positions in college basketball. Unlike Williams of 3 years ago, he'd never been an assistant for a prolonged period of time at the institution that was asking him back and unlike Williams (if this is in fact true) he'd never entered into an explicit agreement to come back if specific events occurred (Dean and Gut retired). My guess is that Dean can and does understand why he chose to stay, but I also find it hard to fault him for expecting Williams to come to Carolina the first time. As for now, I'm actually surprised they're asking him, if they are, but he's one of the best coaches out there so why not, in this day and age? He could have said publicly "no way, no how" and ended the media frenzy already.
I really like Doh, and while I believe the right decision was to let him go - he basically admitted that he was not ready for the job - it does appear that he got shafted. He stopped short of blasting Baddour and calling him a liar, but the bitterness was obvious. I feel bad for him - he was thrown into the fire and had to learn on the job, and brought in a great recruiting class this season. I have no doubt that he will be successful elsewhere though. He just has to balance out his fieriness and I think he knows it. And count me among the Tar Heels who had no problem with Roy staying at Kansas. He remained loyal to the players he recruited and the university that gave him a chance, but it appears that there may still be some desire to come back to Chapel Hill.