My peers and I are planning on writing a 70 plus page business plan for a second professional soccer team in Toronto. It's an entrepreneurial project we're doing at Ryerson for potential investors to look at. We have some rough things down already: - Using BMO field - Gaining market traction through community events like TFC did - Using the Canadian Nutrilite Championship as a big draw - Using the 13 000 season ticket waiting list as an argument for the strong demand soccer has in Toronto - Using TFC as a marketing tool for a future rival I'd like to know what you guys think about this as a possible future venture. Any suggestions?
Big thing is probably finding out how much it would cost per game for access to BMO Field. A high stadium rental quote was used to scare away the CSL where a Toronto Croatia vs Serbian White Eagles fixture was concerned (for obvious reasons) a couple of seasons ago. Bear in mind also that franchise rights would probably also have to be purchased from the Hartrells (owners of the Lynx) and they might be looking to recoup their losses, which I have seen being quoted as high as $5 million. Might be worth giving them a call to see if they would be willing to give you any info possibly be selling it as an exercise in outlining what they could do, which they wouldn't have to pay any money for. I used to have a mutual acquaintance with them and they are good people from what he told me.
Yeah, stadium rental would be an issue. As for the franchise rights, I'll try giving them a call. However, isn't a USL franchise fee only $750 000? What in God's green earth would make them value it at $5 000 000?
As I explained above that is what they claim to have lost on their A League and USL operations over the past decade. If they give up their franchise I suspect they would want to try to recoup their losses. Most people would under those circumstances. As far as I am aware they actually do still control all of the USL rights to the GTA. There have been rumours about them stepping up again from PDL and running a USL-2 team in either Hamilton or Toronto for what it's worth.
You mean potentially running a USL-2 team? If they do control all rights in the GTA, that eliminates Brampton as a viable alternative. Well, that could probably be challenged regardless. As for the bolded part, that is no way to value a business in the real world. No one raises the value of a failed venture due to the losses it has occured.
That's the rumour. Heard the Hamilton one on another board from a guy who plays for one of their youth teams last spring and the Toronto one was on the Voyageurs board recently.
...which probably would rule out Toronto. Rochester have blocked entry by Buffalo based teams based on exclusive territorial rights. I heard on the grapevine one time that the Hartrells even held a veto over London, Ont. on that basis.
I don't think a 2nd pro team will be a viable "business." Its either going to have to be a passionate owner like Saputo thats willing to take some losses or a more community approach like f.c united of manchester in England. What I'm basically saying is your not going to get me to switch allegiances just to give my money to another bunch of business men.
I don't think USL gives a franchisee exclusive territorial rights. I believe a PDL franchise owner has the right of first refusal to a higher level franchise. If I'm right, you could apply for a USL1 team in Toronto, but USL would give the Hartrells the option to buy the franchise before it is granted to you. And I doubt Marcos will let the Hartrell's $5 million in losses prevent him from cashing a $750,000 cheque or having another USL1 franchise. I'm pretty sure that there was a Toronto W-League team in the early 2000's that was not owned by the Hartrells, so I think USL does allow different owners in different leagues in the same city. I don't see a USL1 franchise in TO as a competitor for TFC loyalties, more of a relief valve for all the pent up soccer demand due to the scarcity of TFC tickets. How about playing the regular season games at Lamport and the Voyageurs cup TFC game at Skydome?
Maybe they said yes. How many people do you think drive up the 401 from London for Lynx games? I also would have thought that having an away game 2 hours away rather than somewhere like Illinois would have its attractions in financial terms. I was told that a few years ago when they still had a USL-D1 team (probably still A League at the time). I wouldn't take it 100% as gospel but the source was somebody who was a lot more in the loop than I have ever been on matters like that.
2 hrs for a lynx game... nope. I'm in London and can't be bothered to get the 5 blocks down the street to see London City play. Course I was upset that I missed the London City v TFC academy last year... have to do that this year.
Something that may be worth noting:- http://www.realmaryland.us/html/news160.html# Looks like MLS teams are starting to partner up with USL teams now that the reserve division has been scrapped.
There a USL2 team though, I don't know I think a strong 2nd division is important in soccer. Montreal, Vancouver, Rochester and Puerto Rico make north american soccer a lot more interesting. And the USL grows it organically. No subsidies, no caps, no roster limits. Live or die, theres nothing more romantic than that (not to sound gay)
Not gay at all. As well as being a supporter for TFC I also support Pittsburgh in the USL 2 and I can tell you there is a difference in the overall atmosphere between MLS, USL 1, and USL 2. In the USL 2 you are usually playing at a high school football stadium, college soccer stadium if you're lucky. The coach is usually the owner of the club. LOTS more kids...a little more family friendly than MLS. You usually have a pint with the players after the game...after every game and you can e-mail the owner AND GET A REPLY. It is more organic and thats what makes it more exciting, plus there are only 20 games to play and other than the USL 2 championship you are shooting for a spot in the US Open Cup. No national call-ups in this league but if you have a good player then a MLS club may grab them. DCU got a few of our players. The other thing about USL 2 is that it's a geography league so alot of the clubs are within a few hours or a days drive to the opponent which can make for some heated rivalries.
Get real guys, there won't be a usl team or a team in any other league here in toronto. I think it's pretty much impossible to get people to go to another soccer teams games in this city. It would be financial suicide for any owner to invest in this. That's why the lynx are gone, anything that isn't the highest level in this city is doomed to fail. Just look at the marlies, the only reason they exist is because of the very deep pockets of mlse.
And like I said the USL is more upclose and personal. Flags...No Problem! Streamers...The more the merry! It is more fan friendly than the MLS from what I've seen. That alone drove people away from the MLS. Plus, a USL 1 club in T.O. means another club for the Canadian Cup and a true derby. Not to mention the rivalry picks up with the Rhinos and the Impact as well as Vancouver and add Cleveland to the list.
Toronto Lynx are still around. They're in the PDL and are rumoured to be participating in USL 2 in the upcoming season. Not to mention the Lynx U-20 team has placed top 4 in North America 2 years in a row now. I'm sorry but Toronto has enough teams lol.