Bush turned his back on America: hold him, and those that run him, accountable

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Mel Brennan, Apr 8, 2003.

  1. Mel Brennan

    Mel Brennan AN INTERVIDUAL

    Apr 8, 2002
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Take a look for yourself at JUST A SAMPLE of how many different civic leaders and groups tried to dialogue with this administration prior to their warmongering from afar; fearing, I guess, that the people might actually be heard from, this cabal failed to repsond not only to Tutu, the Pope, Mandela, Carter and countless others at their "level," but to regular joes and homegrown leadership trying to represent their communities and professions and families as well...

    When its all said and done, and this cabal is exposed and crushed for who they choose to be in practice, NEVER forget any soldier who died or was wounded in any way because of this sick order by their CIC, and NEVER forget those fighters back home who tried and are trying to get this cabal to give us back our nation, or at a minimum stop this offensive armed attack on another nation which has not attacked us...

    Business Leaders who tried to talk to Bush and failed...
    CITIES FOR PEACE (the Chicago City Council and the 75 other local elected bodies) tried to talk with Bush and failed...
    Clergy of all faiths and denominations tried to meet with Bush and failed...
    National environmental organizations tried to meet with Bush and failed...
    Respected academics and intellectuals who came together as Not In Our Name tried to speak with Bush and failed...
    Physicians' groups tried to speak with Bush and failed...
    Women's groups tried to speak to this man and failed...
    Consumer Advocacy Groups sought out this man, to no avail...
    Professors...
    Students...
    A multitude of women's organizations...
    A coalition of unions with over 4.5 million members...
    Veterans who have served our country in World War II, Korea, Vietnam, the 1991 Gulf War and other military conflicts...

    Who was Bush listening to? Not the width and breadth of Americans, that's for damn sure.

    Hold this administration accountable in every possible sense, including criminal, for the deaths or injury of men and women to whom they have no relation, and for whom they have no regard, on both sides of the bayonet...
     
  2. 352klr

    352klr Member+

    Jan 29, 2001
    The Burgh of Edin
    I hear if you just took a tour of the White House that you where able to talk with every President no matter what the subject matter and how busy they were. That is, until Bush took office.
     
  3. mannyfreshstunna

    mannyfreshstunna New Member

    Feb 7, 2003
    Naperville, no less
    Your failure to hold Saddam Hussein accountable is unbelievable. You hatred of America is so seething it is transparent in this temper tantrum of a thread. That little bit about "giving back our nation" is disgusting, because you fail to realize you are in the minority. I refuse to be part of your marxist dream, you sicko.
     
  4. eneste

    eneste Member

    Mar 24, 2000
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Re: Re: Bush turned his back on America: hold him, and those that run him, accountable

    Why didn't Democrats think of accusing that Republicans hated America when they were about to asphyxiate from screaming so much about impeaching Clinton? If Universal thinks the US is going to hell in a handbasket wouldn't he be happy about that and sit back and enjoy it instead of posting all of this nonsense everyday?
     
  5. Dante

    Dante Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Upstate NY
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Re: Bush turned his back on America: hold him, and those that run him, accountable

    You heard wrong. When you take a tour of the White House you very rarely see the President. Most of the tour is in areas the President rarely goes to.
     
  6. Dante

    Dante Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Upstate NY
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Bush turned his back on America: hold him, and those that run him, accountable

    I just might have to... but sometimes you never can tell.
     
  7. Father Ted

    Father Ted BigSoccer Supporter

    Manchester United, Galway United, New York Red Bulls
    Nov 2, 2001
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    Re: Re: Bush turned his back on America: hold him, and those that run him, accountable

    I toured the White House about 5 years ago, there was no sign of Clinton anywhere, though I swore I saw a porky looking gal with a stain on her dress hassling security trying to get in to the west wing. They stopped tours of the White House after September 11 and I know they restarted them sometime last year, then stopped them in February when the terror alert status went up. I don't know if they are going on now.
     
  8. Mel Brennan

    Mel Brennan AN INTERVIDUAL

    Apr 8, 2002
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Re: Re: Bush turned his back on America: hold him, and those that run him, accountable

    To me, this is THE quintessential fool's logic, all captured in one tidy little quote:

    (1) Find a single quote by me where I submit that it is important to leave Saddam alone and let him do what he wants. On the contrary, I submitted, and CONTINUE to submit that what I am looking for, what millions in the "minority" are DEMANDING from American leadership going forward are innovative, "lead the peace" strategies that create new ways of dealing with foolish leaders that do not require the launch of an offensive war that gets kids killed whose families won't reap the Hallliburton-esque Carlyle beneifts this cabal will, period. What's "un-American" about asking for your leaders to be creative and innovative in their approach to the world, particularly when the world needs some creative innovation in the face of new types of insecurity and new types of actionable "threats," as opposed to the same old cycle of militarism, the same old cycle of invasion and murder, albeit sanitized for PR and media's sake??

    (2)I don't hate America. I strive to love it. But one cannot love everything "as-is." Its like the Constitution: I would not have loved it "as-is," but with those Ammendments...boy, I love that document...you, and many others here, counter my assertions of fact (like the ones above; hell people, that's tens of millions of folks represented, shouldn't they have been at least acknowledged and heard by SOMEONE in the administration???) with "You hate America." That is stupid, and allows you to feel better about your lack of insight regarding these arguments. Okay, let's play this game: given the above, what would I have to hate about America? The fact that large constituencies like labor can't dialogue with the Executive branch about its decision to go to war and how that will affect Americans? ou know what, if that means I "hate Americans" than that;s the world you'll have to live in...I just can't join you there. I love the potential of America; I also think it can be, and is being, derailed from its potential by a plutocratic group that spins policy toward its own needs and wants. I hate America because I want citizens to be empowered (by a nation that wants to be number one in education like they are number one at "killing people and breaking things") to maximize their civic and other potentials under our political systems? Wow.

    (3) When you submit "I am in the minority," what exactly do you mean by that? Do you mean that because "I'm in the minorty" I deserve less right to say and speak my mind, less right to be heard by our government, less rights to be an American? Why do you hate America? Why do you hate our freedoms?

    (4)Point to a quote of me submitting anywhere that I am an embrcer of Marxism, or socialism, or any "ism," ever. You clearly cannot, do not read. If I have been consistent in anything here, it has been that I find all of these "isms" to be sorely lacking. There's nothing "un-American" about that. Capitalism is not installed in our Constitution. My search is not over, my America not fully realized, my life a journey of mind, body, and spirit, and never a pit stop into someone else's failed ideologies.

    Don't hate; participate. Try some original exploration, some creative dialogue. The only reasons you wouldn't do that is if you are (1) a plutocrat as described above, and ultimately value this system we currently have, (2) a plutocrat "wanna-be," who will work harder than any plutocrat to keep the perversion of our political/economic systems up and running in the hopes that during your lifetime you will be able to enter the club through "merit," luck or a combination of both, or (3) you are too much of a mooncalf to take in the gist of any of this entire argument. From the above, I KNOW you don't, can't or won't read...just look at what you've said about me and my arguments, based upon less than zero... :rolleyes:

    In addition you'll not be able to rest replete in that "indict Clinton" fallback argument many here employ. I am a believer that we have only one party in this nation's power structure, the Financial Unicrats. Now, the F.U.s have two "wings," but the actual differences go little beyond makeup. McAuliffe, in his vision of and embrace for the Clintonian "New Democrat" was actually proposing that the Dems go "center-oscillate;" that is, sit on the fence and jump "left" or "right" as circumstances warranted. This allowed moderates to sit back and relax, and the "far-right" of Republicanism to gain full voice, while the "far-left" of Dems lost full voice, providing no balance even among this shitty two-party version of representatvie democracy we've allowed to evolve, a system that employs its own debate commission to truncate the number of voices that can speak to Americans during debates for the number one office in the world in "the greatest country in the world"... :rolleyes:

    See, the problem is that very statement, "the greatest country in the world," has become calcified in myth. Instead of being "continuous patriots," ALWAYS engaged in the same kind of "mad adherance" to the principles bravely submitted in the Constitution and Bill of Rights, and also placed in the Declaration, always working hard toward that notion of "great," we have allowed the discussion to reflect the moving of the goalposts, in that being American is no longer about vigorous efforts to expand democracy and the debates surrounding a fair distribution of power; its about your percentage ranking embrace of the myth. In other words, many of those Founders, in debating the very codified nature of the nation, would be told they "hate America" today, because the criteria for "loving America" has become one's commitment to that phrase, and not one's committment to real democracy, real balances of power.

    For many Americans, that phrase is a myth standing in the way of real change. For others, when the need for real change comes up against their overwhelming adherance to that myth, the cognitive dissonance is explosive, and sad to watch.

    Its irrelevant as well. I don't care whether or not "America is the greatest nation in the world." What I care about is whether or not America has done all it can to expand democaracy, abolish poverty, reverse disinvestment in rural and inner-city areas where citizens, not corporations, benefit, end homelessness and decrepit housing conditions wherever they are found, develop renewable energy, draw upon the wealth of knowledge among our civil servants, provide wide access to justice, extend democratic principles overseas as effectively as have McDonald's and Coca-Cola, stop giveaways of citizens' common assets by so-called "commissions" liek the FCC and the FTC, and counter the excesses of the brazen commercial culture, while ensuring each citizen will be a part of systems that will move unfailingly and unrelentingly to provide opportunities for the maximization of potential.

    That's me. Call me what you want.
     
  9. angus_hooligan

    angus_hooligan New Member

    May 15, 2001
    Chicago
    You know, I finally figured out who you sound like. Kramer's lawyer 'Jackie Chiles' from Seinfeld.
    Always using big words to make yourself sound smarter.
     
  10. Mel Brennan

    Mel Brennan AN INTERVIDUAL

    Apr 8, 2002
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Re: Re: Bush turned his back on America: hold him, and those that run him, accountable

    And I finally figured you out as well; a racist (or self-hating) mooncalf who hates me because I bother to know the difference between words he always thought were synonyms, and can choose among them...

    Don't hate; educate. Then, participate.
     
  11. Stogey23

    Stogey23 Member+

    Dec 12, 1998
    San Diego, CA
    I heard that during the White House tour, you would get a chance to visit the White House open bar. That is, until Bush took office.

    I heard that during the White House tour, you could get through to whole tour without seeing the President spit on a baby. That is, until Bush took office.

    I heard that during the White House tour, you would get a chance to exercise your first amendment rights and take a crap in the Lincoln Bedroom. That is, until Bush took office.

    I heard that the flowers on the White House lawn were beautiful and plentiful. That is, until Bush took office.

    I heard that during the White House tour, you could get through to whole tour without being sprayed with holy water and cursed with eternal damnation. That is, until Bush took office.

    I heard that Joe, Dan, Superdave, and Universal lived productive, happy lives. That is, until Bush took office.

    I heard that during the White House tour each person got to visit the "gloryhole" room. That is, until Bush took office.
     
  12. Stogey23

    Stogey23 Member+

    Dec 12, 1998
    San Diego, CA
    Re: Re: Re: Bush turned his back on America: hold him, and those that run him, accountable

    I personally can attest to the fact that Angus is not a racist. He's banged several black chicks, and even let them swallow his eternal-life-giving white man's sperm.


    If the glove don't fit you must acquit, but don't quote me cause I ain't said sh....
     
  13. angus_hooligan

    angus_hooligan New Member

    May 15, 2001
    Chicago
    Re: Re: Re: Bush turned his back on America: hold him, and those that run him, accountable

    I am shocked and shagrinned.....mortified and stupified...but I'm not sure how that makes me sound racist or self-hating? Or a mooncalf for that matter. I never said that I hate you. I just stated that you sound like a character on a TV show.
     
  14. Stogey23

    Stogey23 Member+

    Dec 12, 1998
    San Diego, CA
    Is a mooncalf an immature mooncow?
     
  15. John Galt

    John Galt Member

    Aug 30, 2001
    Atlanta
    Universal,
    I would think you would recognize the hypocrisy evident in your "vote to impeach" link. The whole reason the Republican party was wrong to impeach Clinton was because it was a blatant attempt to undermine the structure of our Constitutional democracy, usurping the power of one branch for the aggrandizement of another. Advocating the exact same actions now that a President of another party is in power makes you look both hypocritical and uncreative.

    As for who the Bush administration listened to, setting aside that you already know this is a misleading accusation, the proper remedy is to attempt to elect a new leader at the next election, who will then ignore your Financial Unicrats, not to advocate a coup.
     
  16. mannyfreshstunna

    mannyfreshstunna New Member

    Feb 7, 2003
    Naperville, no less
    Re: Re: Re: Bush turned his back on America: hold him, and those that run him, accountable

    I would like to start by saying this post is one of the few times you "try some original exploration, some creative dialogue."
    You are in the minority, because the majority of Americans support the president. As for your marxism, you don't have to say "hey guys, i'm a marxist" for that to be evident. It is very clear in fact. And you claim i follow failed idealogies!
     
  17. joseph pakovits

    joseph pakovits New Member

    Apr 29, 1999
    fly-over country
    I heard that America was under Communist rule. That is, until Bush took office.

    I heard that jack-booted government thugs flying black helicopters were building concentration camps in Montana for when the UN was allowed to take over and send all Christians there before the Rapture. That is, until Bush took office.

    I heard America lost the VietNam War because of "hippies". That is, until Bush took office.

    I heard that the government's budget was plunging our future generations ever more deeply into debt slavery to pay for welfare mother mothers' Cadillacs, champagne and filet mignon. That is, until Bush took office.

    I heard that feminazis were using Title IX to drive men off university campuses. That is, until Bush took office.

    I heard that Ian, Bill, Colin, Keller and Bomb were all being terrorized by left-wing death squads. That is, until Bush took office.

    I heard that Hillary Clinton was responsible for all the Bad Things in the world from Saddam Hussein to OTown to "that not so fresh feeling". That is, until Bush took office.
     
  18. whirlwind

    whirlwind New Member

    Apr 4, 2000
    Plymouth, MI, USA
    Re: Re: Re: Bush turned his back on America: hold him, and those that run him, accountable

    I tried to move a boulder, once. The rock was brutally crushing the ground beneath it, poor little pebbles that could not remove the rock that was oppressing them. I asked it nicely to move. I demanded that it go away. I imposed sanctions on it, preventing anyone else from providing it with food and water, but it still didn't leave. I thought of new and innovative ways to get the boulder to depart of it's own free will, out of respect for the pebbles beneath it. I even offered it sanctuary in another yard. Nothing worked.

    I suppose at that point I could have walked away and not worried about the rock. Yet, I could not. My father had tried to move the rock, once, and partially succeeded, but he had not been willing or able to finish the job.

    I did nothing, probably for far too long, but finally, I decided the rock had to be removed. I asked those around me to help me move it, but most of them refused, since it looked to be a difficult job and they did not want to get their hands dirty. Some even liked the rock perfectly well where it was, as it was not crushing them. But I heard the cries of the pebbles beneath it, and could not ignore them. And, having had my windshield cracked by a renegade rock one September, I knew the dangers of rogue rocks left unchecked.

    I gave the rock 48 hours to move, but it did nothing. Clearly, the boulder did not want to move. So, in the end, although it took much effort and caused a few unpleasant scrapes and bruises, I used force. I broke the rock into smaller pieces, and moved the damn rock myself.
     
  19. capt. america

    capt. america Member

    Oct 5, 2001
    Boston, MA
    i like universal's idea. we should kill them with kindness. that'll show 'em
     
  20. Dante

    Dante Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Upstate NY
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Actually that one is true... that bitch is just plain old evil!
     
  21. MtMike

    MtMike Member+

    Nov 18, 1999
    the 417
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Who was Bush listening to? Not the width and breadth of Americans, that's for damn sure.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A51053-2003Apr7.html

    I don't know, those bastions of conservatism, the Washington Post and ABC News, are reporting that 77% of Americans agree with it. Guess Bush was listening.

    Look, just because the President did not agree with those groups who you listed who are, shall we say, left of center, doesn't mean squat. Apparently, those groups' opinions do not line up with the majority of Americans.

    Furthermore, the President doesn't have to be enslaved to the latest poll numbers. He's doing what he think is right. You can disagree with the war, sure, but I think he's doing what he believes is right. Sure, there are tragedies. Civilians killed. How many Civilians have been killed so far? 200 or so? that's a good lunch break for Saddam. Anything else will be rebuilt.

    I personally think that it's refreshing to have a President that will take the initiative and do what he thinks is right. Reagan did it, and the Berlin Wall fell. (yeah, I know that's not the only reason).
     
  22. Bill Archer

    Bill Archer BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 19, 2002
    Washington, NC
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Re: Bush turned his back on America: hold him, and those that run him, accountable

    How true. Why many is the hour I strolled into the Oval Office, put my feet up on the desk and said "Hey, Bubba, bring me a fukkin coke, you swine"

    Ah, memories. A shame that Bush got in there and immediately put, like, guards at the gates and stuff. Tragic.


    See, uni baby, the stuff that's going on now is what is referred to as "leadership" a prinicple whereby the government is not run by polling every ignorant, ill-informed dickhead but rather by people who have some actual facts and some real experience running something bigger than a leftist bookstand or a Subway franchise make decisions that they feel are in the best interests of the country and then act upon them.

    According to you, we shouldn't even HAVE a President; every time something comes up we'll have a big "National Poll" and everybody will get to vote.

    That way, no official will ever be guilty of "ignoring the will of the people". The country won't be here in six months, but boy: one big happy Town Hall Meeting. Great idea.
     
  23. joseph pakovits

    joseph pakovits New Member

    Apr 29, 1999
    fly-over country
    I heard she ran the liberal media in the USA that was constantly agitating for bolshevism, provided non-stop coverage of sweatshops and other capitalist misdeeds and demanded the immediate revocation of all corporate charters on the nightly news. That is, until Bush took office.
     
  24. Dante

    Dante Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Upstate NY
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That one is patently false....
     
  25. Manolo

    Manolo Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 14, 1997
    Queens, NY
    Re: Re: Bush turned his back on America: hold him, and those that run him, accountable

    I have noted that support for the war has ebbed and flowed with the tide of news reporting. Now that we seem to be on the verge of capturing Baghdad, most people support it. Before, when our military and media seemed "shocked" that the Iraqis would actually resist our invasion, the support actually went down considerably.

    It seems to me the appeal of being able to say "I told you so" after we win the war is greater than the appeal of having a strong belief of what is right and sticking to it.

    I have concluded from these statistics that most people are easily swayed by the tone of media coverage and the comfort of blind patriotism. That is why I cannot look at these poll numbers and determine that my anti-war stance is wrong.
     

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