And why are we wratcheting up the pressure now? Is that bastard Castro threatening to station Soviet missiles again?
So, that's your real goal. You want the freedom to smoke stogies and get blown by Cuban whores. Nevermind the freedom of the Cuban people as a whole.
I'm talking about rank & file Cubans who couldn't stand Castro. Many were well educated and started businesses in places like Miami & Union City, NJ. I guess they were wrong to detest Marxism. That's all Castro sympathizers can point to "reading & writing, great literacy programs, free health care." How about the decrepit living conditions, the lack of basic freedoms, the prison camps for political dissenters? I guess all of that is OK if poor people can read & write and sell pencils & flowers to tourists in Habana. That's a funny statement. "Marxists allowed to govern DEMOCRATICALLY." You really need a history lesson, son.
I'm not sure what standards the HDI uses (I'm guessing lietracy and access to healthcare are the main ones), but putting Cuba that far ahead of El Salvador and Guatemala is ridiculous. Obviously, the HDI places little value on political and economic freedom.
Re: Re: Bush announces push for regime change in Cuba Have you ever heard of a dictator staying in power for 45 years? I haven't. Did you know a hundred dictators have come and gone in Latin America and we've never isolated a nation because of it? And that the one nation we HAVE isolated is the only one left with a dictator? So ask yourself why Bush is re-enforcing a policy that has helped keep the Cuban people subjugated for 45 years- all for some votes in a Florida county.
Cuba Factoids Population: 11,263,429 Birth Rate: 11.87 per 1000 Death Rate: 7.38 per 1000 Infant Mortality: 7.15 per 1000 Life expectancy: 76.8 years # of people with AIDS: 3200 (2001) Literacy Rate: 96.9 (Female) 97.2 (Male) http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/cu.html
You know, we could get Castro overthrown by the time Elian Gonzalez hits puberty. But it's not going to happen doing it the Bush way, unless Castro happens to kick the bucket in the next year or so. Here's the smart way to do it: Normalize relations. Or at least increase communication between the two countries. Darn right I'm serious with this idea. Darn right I'd like to see it happen. Look, we know we're better than Cuba. But the Cubans don't. They're only getting one side of the story. So why not normalize relations? Why not, since we're a better country than they are, show them that? Heck, let's at least get them to quit jamming our broadcasts in exchange for getting Cuba TV on Miami cable or something. Cubans would get both sides of the story and start getting a little cheesed at Castro, and drunk college students in Florida would get an extra source of late-night comedy. Why wouldn't that work?
China is Communist in name only. They've gone around the back door and have turned themselves into a fascist society. Besides, if you wanna bitch at someone about that, go talk to someone on your side of the aisle: Richard Milhous Nixon. Like GringoTex pointed out, dictators have come and go in Latin America. But Castro's the only one's that stayed. What we're doing hasn't worked. Time for a little political judo.
Alex your inability to see anything in other than black and white terms is truly stunning. Your complete lack of historical knowledge is also depressing for someone who has a year or two of college education under their belt...but onto the main point... I guess the question that immediately came up to me is WHY NOW? I mean really, with all of the other crap we face right now why is this a priority for national security? This is a political stunt pure and simple and Bush will LOSE florida once again. The more we normalize relations with Cuba the more it will become a free society. On top of that is it REALLY so bad to have a Marxist society? Cuban Marxism IS NOT Eastern Bloc Communism. It has alot of flaws and I, for one, would prefer to live in a Democracy but it is historically incorrect to compare the Marxist movements of Central America with Eastern Bloc Communism. Nicaragua and the Sandinistas are a perfect example of this if you want to look outside of Cuba. Despite all of the crap that has been thrown at it Cuba and Fidel has survived. It is pretty remarkable.
You know what's truly remarkable? Cuba has a larger prison population than the US, and they all don't belong there. Also, i think the raft people fleeing from Cuba thought it was pretty remarkable in the sense of how truly awful it is.
MFT - sure is easy to take one sentence of a long post out of context isn;t it? Also sure is easy to bait the whole conversation with the "raft people" argument instead of making an intelligent and thoughful response to my post. Oh and your also flat out WRONG about the prison figures. According to the International Centre for Prison Studies... US leads the world in total prisoners; Cuba is 42nd http://www.kcl.ac.uk/depsta/rel/icps/worldbrief/highest_to_lowest_rates.php In terms of per-capita prison rates (prisoners per a 100,000 pop) US ONCE AGAIN LEADS THE WORLD WITH CUBA AT 32ND. http://www.kcl.ac.uk/depsta/rel/icps/worldbrief/highest_to_lowest_rates.php Sure is easy to pull figures out of your ass without any evidence how MFT?
Re: Re: Re: Bush announces push for regime change in Cuba Simplistic boob. Castro was propped up with as much as $3 billion per year in Soviet aid for almost all of those 45 yrs. And when the Russians cut off the gravy train he reluctantly "opened" Cuba up to more outside trade & tourism ("just don't visit our lovely prison camps, Senor. we ran out of fresh towels."). The problem starts & ends with Castro. La Revoluccion failed (outside of - here's the favorite chant of the pro-Castro crowd - HIGH LITERACY RATES - WOOHOO!!) and Fidelito is a sad anachronism in the modern world. Bush is setting up a post-Marxist Cuba for democracy.
Thanks for the link - should have posted that in the first place. Certainly doesn't seem like the Herald is too sure of it's figure. More of a guesstimation. No one seems to be sure. Look the bottom line is that I am in no mood to be defending Cuba's clear human right's violations. My only point is that the Cuba =Bad, Castro=Evil, Miami Exiles = Good view of the situation is a silly and simplistic way to look at things. Additionally in the grand scheme of things is this REALLY what we want our president to be focusing on right now? On top of that - why clamp down on travel and free trade? That, more than anything, will open and expose the Cuban people to new ways of thinking and new prosperity? Our policy in China is as much trade as possible to open up that country to Democratic principles? Why is it the exact opposite in Cuba?
It's a catch 22 with Cuba. More US dollars would certainly assist the people there but then again it would also in a way validate Castro's corrupt regime. Castro's simply the enemy. Will be until the day he dies. He allowed the Soviets to start building nukes on the island so the US could be obliterated. Don't think his history isn't held against him. China's potentially a huge market for US companies so Cuba & China aren't even in the same ballpark. But China's leaders are really no better to their people and we're pretty much admitting a hypocritical policy.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Bush announces push for regime change in Cuba You want to turn the tragedy of Latin American Politics into a kiddie matinee story of good v. evil, mostly to cover up your willful ignorance of the situation and satisy your kinergarten intellect. For 40 years under Castro, Cuba was an average Latin American dictatorship -- no better and no worse than a host of other dictatorships that were dear U.S. allies. Democracy began to spread throughout Latin America once Reagan and the Soviets quit using it as their pissing ground for drug runners and arms dealers. Except it didn't spread to Cuba. Because while the U.S. was leading negotiations with leftists in El Salvador, Guatemala, and Nicaragua (which had positive results towards democracy), they kept Cuba isolated. For a half million votes in Dade County.
Gawd you're naive. You really think the U.S. is isolating millions of Cubans because they hold a 40 year grudge against an old crank who no longer poses a threat? Are you serious, man? Does the concept of "realpolitik" ever enter your cartoon world?
Or the U.S. may have the lead, depending on which Cuban estimate you accept. So what does that say about the USA and Cuba, manny?
It tells me that the US is a nation of 275 million, so it is bound to have a large prison population. Cuba is a smaller nation of 11 million, and it has a proportionally large prison population;most of which has been victimized by the Marxist regime.
I AM talking proportionally: the USA and Cuba inprison about the same percentage of their population. You claim that most prisoners in Cuba are victims. Are most U.S. prisoners victims, too? How liberal of you, manny
Care to speak to some of the fellas in, yes it is ironic, Guantanamo? What exactly is there crime beside exposing a polar opposite political view in a country 4000 miles away? I think they would qualify as "political enemies" who we are holding without due process and in violation of every international law. How about the various Black Panther's who were framed by the FBI in the 60's? How about anyone blacklisted in the 50's red-baiting McCarthyism era? Of course we are not Cuba but to claim the US has no political prisoners is just plain wrong.
Wrong, wrong, and wrong. He allowed the Soviets to place missiles in order to deter another foreign invasion.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Bush announces push for regime change in Cuba In what way does this policy toward Cuba set it up for Democracy?