Bush announces push for regime change in Cuba

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by GringoTex, Oct 10, 2003.

  1. GringoTex

    GringoTex Member

    Aug 22, 2001
    1301 miles de Texas
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    According to the Bushies, free trade is good for every country except Cuba. It's embarrassing to see the President of the United States whore himself out to a few hundred thousand Cubans in Dade County.

    http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=544&u=/ap/20031010/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_cuba_6&printer=1

    WASHINGTON - Eager to please a key Florida constituency, President Bush directed his secretary of state and his Cuban-born housing secretary Friday to recommend ways to achieve a transition to democracy in Cuba after 44 years under Fidel Castro.

    Secretary of State Colin Powell and Housing Secretary Mel Martinez will chair a panel that will "plan for the happy day when Castro's regime is no more and democracy comes to the island," Bush said during a Rose Garden ceremony.

    "The transition to freedom will present many challenges to the Cuban people and to America, and we will be prepared," the president said.

    Bush also said the United States would step up enforcement of existing restrictions against the communist regime, such as a ban on tourism by Americans, and crack down on the trafficking of women and children in Cuba. The United States also will launch a public outreach campaign to identify "the many routes to safe and legal entry" for Cubans who try to flee their homeland, he said.
     
  2. house18

    house18 Member

    Jun 23, 2003
    St. Louis, MO
    ...and we know Clinton would have never done such a thing...hang on I need to find my eyes they just rolled right out of my head!
     
  3. GringoTex

    GringoTex Member

    Aug 22, 2001
    1301 miles de Texas
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    What does this have to do with Clinton? Some of you are weird in your obsession with the man.
     
  4. house18

    house18 Member

    Jun 23, 2003
    St. Louis, MO

    Hmmmmm, maybe because he is the most recent Democratic president...nah, can't be, that would be too logical for you!
     
  5. CFnwside

    CFnwside Member+

    Jan 25, 2001
    Humboldt Park
    these pesky little bastards just don't seem to understand that if they do as they're told and let IMF dictate their economic policy, they will achieve prosperity the likes of haiti in no time.
     
  6. GringoTex

    GringoTex Member

    Aug 22, 2001
    1301 miles de Texas
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Are you trolling my thread with Clinton because you're too ignorant about the Cuban situation but feel the need to express yourself anyway?
     
  7. bungadiri

    bungadiri Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 25, 2002
    Acnestia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is all about Florida and the fact that his handlers figure that stunt with the Supremes won't work 2 elections in a row.
     
  8. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fixed
     
  9. mannyfreshstunna

    mannyfreshstunna New Member

    Feb 7, 2003
    Naperville, no less
    Trade with Marxist Cuba makes little sense. Basically, we'd be taking Cuba's credit card for tons of grain and other agricultural products. Mind you, Cuba is already in debt to a dozen other countries. We'd be giving them our goods with the knowledge that Cuba would most likely never pay us.

    And no, I'm not giving Castro's Cuba a free pass when it comes to trade.
     
  10. microbrew

    microbrew New Member

    Jun 29, 2002
    NJ
    Cuba will pay for our products with all the tourist and cigar money they get from Canada and Europe.

    Most of the impetus for trade to Cuba comes from farmers looking for a new market to export to. Okay, maybe those guys who want Cuban cigars to become legal. Whether this constituency can overcome the aging Cuban exile constituency, well, who knows.
     
  11. GringoTex

    GringoTex Member

    Aug 22, 2001
    1301 miles de Texas
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    ???? This post is mindblowing in its ignorance of all things pertinent to the situation.

    Manny, free trade doesn't mean the US government gives Cuba all these goods in exchange for a promisory note. That's called foreign aid. Free trade means that private businesses in the U.S. can make business deals in Cuba if they so desire. Or that Americans can travel to Cuba if they like and blow their hard-earned cash on cigars and whores. But, no, your President has taken that freedom away from you.
     
  12. mannyfreshstunna

    mannyfreshstunna New Member

    Feb 7, 2003
    Naperville, no less
    Sorry Gringo. I wasn't talking about free trade.
     
  13. CFnwside

    CFnwside Member+

    Jan 25, 2001
    Humboldt Park
    we have "free" trade agreements with countries a lot more indebted than cuba. the issue is the same one it's been for a couple of hundred years. we are unwilling to tolerate a country in our sphere of influence pursuing it's own economic and poltical destiny. cuba went from being practicaly a u.s. plantation, to a country that despite decades of economic strangulation by the most powerfull nation on earth has provided a much better standard of life to its' citizens than other latin american countries strong armed into accepting the washington concensus. not the kind of example we want to see spread among other little brown people. see haiti, guatemala, el salvador, etc. for examples of capitalist paradises.
     
  14. Yankee_Blue

    Yankee_Blue New Member

    Aug 28, 2001
    New Orleans area
     
  15. GringoTex

    GringoTex Member

    Aug 22, 2001
    1301 miles de Texas
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    That's not true either. I did a quality of life indicator comparison between Cuba, El Salvador, and Guatemala a few months back on these boards. All three were in very similar situations. Which still demonstrates the Cuban myth our government backs.
     
  16. Manolo

    Manolo Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 14, 1997
    Queens, NY
    I sense that this move by Bush is a way to smooth things over with the Cuban-Americans after his brother has been fouling things up recently.

    As usual, the policy outlined by the Bush administration promises to increase tension, provoke hostility, and have a net negative effect for both countries involved.
     
  17. Sonicspride

    Sonicspride New Member

    Jul 20, 2003
    If we are to push a regime change in cuba, aren't we still breaking the deal that we made with the old Soviet Union?
     
  18. BenReilly

    BenReilly New Member

    Apr 8, 2002
    Human development index rank:

    52 Cuba












    105 El Salvador

    119 Guatemala
    ------------------


    HDI Rank Country Human development index (HDI) value
    2001


    1 Norway 0.944
    2 Iceland 0.942
    3 Sweden 0.941
    4 Australia 0.939
    5 Netherlands 0.938

    6 Belgium 0.937
    7 United States 0.937
    8 Canada 0.937
    9 Japan 0.932
    10 Switzerland 0.932

    11 Denmark 0.930
    12 Ireland 0.930
    13 United Kingdom 0.930
    14 Finland 0.930
    15 Luxembourg 0.930

    16 Austria 0.929
    17 France 0.925
    18 Germany 0.921
    19 Spain 0.918
    20 New Zealand 0.917

    21 Italy 0.916
    22 Israel 0.905
    23 Portugal 0.896
    24 Greece 0.892
    25 Cyprus 0.891

    26 Hong Kong, China (SAR) 0.889
    27 Barbados 0.888
    28 Singapore 0.884
    29 Slovenia 0.881
    30 Korea, Rep. of 0.879

    31 Brunei Darussalam 0.872
    32 Czech Republic 0.861
    33 Malta 0.856
    34 Argentina 0.849
    35 Poland 0.841

    36 Seychelles 0.840
    37 Bahrain 0.839
    38 Hungary 0.837
    39 Slovakia 0.836
    40 Uruguay 0.834

    41 Estonia 0.833
    42 Costa Rica 0.832
    43 Chile 0.831
    44 Qatar 0.826
    45 Lithuania 0.824

    46 Kuwait 0.820
    47 Croatia 0.818
    48 United Arab Emirates 0.816
    49 Bahamas 0.812
    50 Latvia 0.811

    51 Saint Kitts and Nevis 0.808
    52 Cuba 0.806
    53 Belarus 0.804
    54 Trinidad and Tobago 0.802
    55 Mexico 0.800

    56 Antigua and Barbuda 0.798
    57 Bulgaria 0.795
    58 Malaysia 0.790
    59 Panama 0.788
    60 Macedonia, TFYR 0.784

    61 Libyan Arab Jamahiriya 0.783
    62 Mauritius 0.779
    63 Russian Federation 0.779
    64 Colombia 0.779
    65 Brazil 0.777

    66 Bosnia and Herzegovina 0.777
    67 Belize 0.776
    68 Dominica 0.776
    69 Venezuela 0.775
    70 Samoa (Western) 0.775

    71 Saint Lucia 0.775
    72 Romania 0.773
    73 Saudi Arabia 0.769
    74 Thailand 0.768
    75 Ukraine 0.766

    76 Kazakhstan 0.765
    77 Suriname 0.762
    78 Jamaica 0.757
    79 Oman 0.755
    80 St. Vincent & Grenadines 0.755

    81 Fiji 0.754
    82 Peru 0.752
    83 Lebanon 0.752
    84 Paraguay 0.751
    85 Philippines 0.751

    86 Maldives 0.751
    87 Turkmenistan 0.748
    88 Georgia 0.746
    89 Azerbaijan 0.744
    90 Jordan 0.743

    91 Tunisia 0.740
    92 Guyana 0.740
    93 Grenada 0.738
    94 Dominican Republic 0.737
    95 Albania 0.735

    96 Turkey 0.734
    97 Ecuador 0.731
    98 Occupied Palestinian Territories 0.731
    99 Sri Lanka 0.730
    100 Armenia 0.729

    101 Uzbekistan 0.729
    102 Kyrgyzstan 0.727
    103 Cape Verde 0.727
    104 China 0.721
    105 El Salvador 0.719

    106 Iran, Islamic Rep. of 0.719
    107 Algeria 0.704
    108 Moldova, Rep. of 0.700
    109 Viet Nam 0.688
    110 Syrian Arab Republic 0.685

    111 South Africa 0.684
    112 Indonesia 0.682
    113 Tajikistan 0.677
    114 Bolivia 0.672
    115 Honduras 0.667

    116 Equatorial Guinea 0.664
    117 Mongolia 0.661
    118 Gabon 0.653
    119 Guatemala 0.652
    120 Egypt 0.648

    121 Nicaragua 0.643
    122 São Tomé and Principe 0.639
    123 Solomon Islands 0.632
    124 Namibia 0.627
    125 Botswana 0.614

    126 Morocco 0.606
    127 India 0.590
    128 Vanuatu 0.568
    129 Ghana 0.567
    130 Cambodia 0.556

    131 Myanmar 0.549
    132 Papua New Guinea 0.548
    133 Swaziland 0.547
    134 Comoros 0.528
    135 Lao People's Dem. Rep. 0.525

    136 Bhutan 0.511
    137 Lesotho 0.510
    138 Sudan 0.503
    139 Bangladesh 0.502
    140 Congo 0.502

    141 Togo 0.501
    142 Cameroon 0.499
    143 Nepal 0.499
    144 Pakistan 0.499
    145 Zimbabwe 0.496

    146 Kenya 0.489
    147 Uganda 0.489
    148 Yemen 0.470
    149 Madagascar 0.468
    150 Haiti 0.467

    151 Gambia 0.463
    152 Nigeria 0.463
    153 Djibouti 0.462
    154 Mauritania 0.454
    155 Eritrea 0.446

    156 Senegal 0.430
    157 Guinea 0.425
    158 Rwanda 0.422
    159 Benin 0.411
    160 Tanzania, U. Rep. of 0.400

    161 Côte d'Ivoire 0.396
    162 Malawi 0.387
    163 Zambia 0.386
    164 Angola 0.377
    165 Chad 0.376

    166 Guinea-Bissau 0.373
    167 Congo, Dem. Rep. of the 0.363
    168 Central African Republic 0.363
    169 Ethiopia 0.359
    170 Mozambique 0.356

    171 Burundi 0.337
    172 Mali 0.337
    173 Burkina Faso 0.330
    174 Niger 0.292
    175 Sierra Leone 0.275
     
  19. DoyleG

    DoyleG Moderator
    Staff Member

    FC Edmonton
    Canada
    Jan 11, 2002
    Victoria, BC
    Club:
    FC Edmonton
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Mainly because American tourists go through Canada to reach Cuba.

    The Cubans have started to re-build their economy somewhat thanks to the infusion of US Dollars from the exile communities.
     
  20. Yankee_Blue

    Yankee_Blue New Member

    Aug 28, 2001
    New Orleans area
    US policy toward Cuba has remained practically unchanged since 1960. The rhetoric may have changed depending on the political winds, but the policy is to remove Castro.
     
  21. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    Yes, but without a Marxist dictator in power, Cuba IMO would be much higher ranked than it is now. The Cubans that came here in the 50s & 60s were highly educated professionals who couldn't stomach the repugnant Marxist regime of Fidelito. Bush is playing to the Cubans in Florida, but he's right that Fidel's 45 yr. (45 FREAKING UNELECTED YEARS, PEOPLE! Does that not bother anyone?) stranglehold on Cuba has to end. The Cold War's over, the world has certainly changed and Fidel has no place in it.
     
  22. champmanager

    champmanager Member

    Dec 13, 2001
    Alexandria, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Kazakhstan
    Lets not forget the unelected dictator, Batista, who reportedly fled with about five billion dollars. Or the big landowners who had propped up various dictators so they could exploit their campesinos. I don't know about stomaching Marxism, but they couldn't stomach having the loss of profits.
    I'm sure all the people here bashing Castro would have been protesting Washington's support in the 50's and 60's and 70's and 80's of corrupt, non-Marxist dictatorships in Latin America, if they'd be around. I'm sure of it.
     
  23. dfb547490

    dfb547490 New Member

    Feb 9, 2000
    The Heights
    Pressuring to end a 45-year-old totalitarian government and promoting democracy in a country 90 miles away from the US coast? I can't believe our President is such a horrible, dumb, uneducated, evil redneck. :rolleyes:

    Ben, the list you posted is far from perfect...for instance, I've been to both Greece and the Czech Republic (admittedly I was in Greece about 7-8 years ago) and the quality of life definitely seemed better in Czech, yet Greece is ranked higher. And would countries like Brunei and Saudi Arabia be ranked so high if it weren't for a few extremely rich people? Don't think so. Same with Cuba, the vast majority of the population is extremely poor but Castro and his goons are rolling in cash...gotta love Marxism. :rolleyes:
     
  24. dfb547490

    dfb547490 New Member

    Feb 9, 2000
    The Heights
    Huge difference...

    Corrupt, thuggish Marxist dictatorships in Latin America: Threatened to station (in the case of Cuba did briefly station) Soviet missiles within striking range of the mainland US.

    Corrupt, thuggish non-Marxist dictatorships in Latin America: Did not threaten to station Soviet missiles within striking range of the mainland US.
     
  25. CFnwside

    CFnwside Member+

    Jan 25, 2001
    Humboldt Park
    they were rich facking scumbags who made a fortune being washington puppets, while the absolute majority of the population lived like slaves. one of the first things castro did, was send volunteers into the countryside to teach people how to read and write. there were CIA sponsored death squads targetting those volunteers. like in many third world countries, marxist movements were the only ones with broad popular support.they were NEVER allowed to govern democratically without u.s. terror.
     

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