These guys will be the death of me! They've already gone behind twice and tied the game twice!!! It's only the fifteenth minute! Good thing I'm drinkin'.....
5-2 San Jose wins. BLAME CANADA!!!! Nice that our slow ass D allowed Osama get his hat trick. And WTF is Cassar starting instead of DJ?????? Someone get a rope for Matt B. 4 more games to go until our season from HELL is over. I'm getting a beer.
Walk out with your chins up guys. Dallas has shown more heart than KC and LA combined, you guys just got dealt a low hand. See you next season -
On a positive note, the new GM/Prez/Whatever (not really sure) was saying during a really boring stretch of the match on TV that we would see "unprecedented in MLS" dedication to making the Burn stronger and that our turnaround was going to be incredibly fast. The implication was that someone was giving more money than anyone has ever seen in American soccer to the Burn and that, with that $$$$, we'd be able to build a monster team soon. Anyone have the details?
MLS probably just wants to make sure the bleeding is over before the team moves into it's new digs. It wouldn't look good to open to half full or less crowds and everyone now sees that going to the suburbs isn't an automatic plus like they probably all thought before. Too bad Fair Park didn't think about building the new stadium on their grounds. Now in the paper today they are discussing the game between Monterrey and the Brazilian team during the fair and saying now that their is no soccer at the Cotton Bowl that these games are needed and that Hispanics are this big upcoming group. I guess last fall they weren't but now they are. The City of Dallas never thinks ahead anymore.
So you're putting most of the blame on the City of Dallas?? If Hunt really wanted to play in Dallas, I bet he could have worked out an agreement to rent land from the city for a nominal amount in return for spending $40 million of his own funds to build the stadium. But Hunt wanted taxpayers to foot most of the bill for his stadium. The City of Dallas and the City of McKinney were smart to say "No thanks" to that -- it just wouldn't have made economic sense for them. But it does make at least some economic sense for Frisco to enter into a partnership to build a stadium with the Burn. Frisco ISD badly needs a bigger football stadium, and they're certainly getting their money's worth for their $15 million investment. The City of Frisco currently is awash in sales tax revenue, and investing $20 million in a soccer stadium and complex is just one more step toward making their city the hub of entertainment and retailing for the northern suburbs.
I'm not only blaming Dallas but they aren't blameless. They were the ones who made the deal with the Burn and never budged. They were the ones who treated the team like 4th tenants after the Cotton Bowl Classic, Texas / OU, and even the other football game played during the fair. Did the Burn ask about building a soccer specific stadium there? Who knows. Hunt built one in Ohio at a fairground. He also supposedly has a grudge against Dallas going back to his Dallas Texans / KC Chiefs. I can specifically say I never saw, heard or read anyone associated with any the City of Dallas, Dallas County or Fair Park say that the Burn should stay in Fair Park or that the city should find a new location in the city limits or even Dallas County.
I'll go ahead and blame the City of Dallas for one thing: Southlake. Because the Dallas Parks and Recreation Department wasn't interested in doing anything for the Burn except financially sodomizing them, we're at Southlake right now. After HSG reached an agreement with Carroll ISD, they went back to Dallas to give them the opportunity to match it or at least substantially improve the crappy deal that we had before. Since we're now at Dragon Stadium, you can guess how accomodating the City of Dallas was towards the tenant who was filling 18-20 dates a year at the Cotton Bowl. I would've preferred for the SSS to be in Dallas, but you know, I have a hard time blaming Lamar Hunt for not wanting to spend $40 million for something that he can get for $10 million elsewhere. Frankly, I often wonder if the City of Dallas actually knows what makes economic sense. I don't want to sound like some anti-Dallas suburbanite, because I did enjoy living in Dallas, but sometimes, the people down on Marilla St. have their heads shoved so far up their rectums that they think that the sky is brown. I'd hardly expect for them to open up the coffers for a stadium for the Burn when they're still paying for Reunion Arena and the American Airlines Center and when they're having a hard time making ends meet and when they're on the hook for a long-overdue pay raise for the police and fire departments. I get all that. As long as some suburb was willing to crack open their wallets, the Burn's stadium was never, ever, going to be in the City of Dallas. But even when faced with the loss of a tenant that brought 250,000 people a year through the gates of the Cotton Bowl, the City of Dallas couldn't even make a serious bid to keep them. Would it have cost some revenue to keep the Burn? Sure. But the alternative was getting nothing from the Burn, nothing from soccer. Oh wait, they'll get 18,000 at that friendly next week. I guess that makes up for it. THAT'S what I hold against the City of Dallas. Not that they couldn't build a brand-spanking-new stadium for the Burn, but that they couldn't keep the Burn at a stadium that was paid off 50 years ago. I hate Dragon Stadium, and I hate that the City of Dallas essentially told HSG "have fun in Southlake." Like I said, I'm not sure if the City of Dallas knows what makes economic sense. It would've made more economic sense for them to treat the Burn like a partner, but they still treated the Burn like a prison bitch.
There is enough blame to go around. Southlake was a terrible move. When you add the play on the field, this has been the worst season in franchise history. Even with all the problems, what really matters is Dallas still has a professional soccer team. Think about that for a moment. The Burn were considered for contraction and in 18 months they will have a brand new stadium. The City of Dallas is ultimately responsible for losing the Burn. Years of fiscal mismanagement put them in a situation where they could only treat the Burn as their little stepchildren. I don’t think sports teams should be subsidized by taxpayers. The city leaders of Frisco thought otherwise. In their view, getting a professional soccer team and the hope of national team games in Frsico was worth the cost. Personally, I think they are a little too optimistic, but that is their choice. Watching the USWNT play to a packed house in Columbus, I could not help get a little excited knowing one day we will be playing in our own soccer specific stadium
"Financially sodomizing" them? If you want true financial sodomization, look no further than DC United who supposedly pay about $60,000/game in rent or the Metros who reportedly pay close to $100,000/game in rent. Compared to that, the Cotton Bowl's reported rate of $15,000/game looks like a pretty good deal, and is in the same ballpark as what the Burn pay in Southlake (about $7500/game). In my opinion, the main reasons the Burn are at Southlake right now have nothing to do with rent. They are: 1) HSG wants to go after the suburban soccer mom crowd and really doesn't care whether or not they keep their Latino fanbase. 2) Hunt still carries a bit of a grudge with the City of Dallas over his AFL team, and would prefer not to do business with them if possible 3) HSG President John Wagner decided to move the team to Southlake to increase his influence in his home town. Maybe he or his wife want to run for school board or something. Who knows. But considering there're just as good high school facilities closer to Dallas than Dragon Stadium, it certainly raises some eyebrows why of all places Southlake was chosen.
El Jefe speaks for me! That was a very thoughtful posting that captures some of the idiocy of the move to Sucklake. The Dallas city bureaucrats really ignited this move by not caring about a really unique Dallas cross cultural soccer experience. Was it that big a deal to share some fricking parking and concession revenue and maybe give them the field a little earlier to use for revenue generation? Turgid self absorbed muttonheads. Yes they were going to move but what have you gained you smug little mushrooms? Ok I can move on now.
Just because theirs is worse, doesn't mean that the City of Dallas was giving the Burn a good deal on the Cotton Bowl. Actually, even though you meant these as two different thoughts, they are closely related. The reason why the deal at Dragon Stadium is better than the one at the Cotton Bowl has nothing to do with rent. It's all about the other revenue streams. At the Cotton Bowl, the Burn got nothing from parking, nothing from concessions, nothing from souvenirs. They had no control over their venue, so they couldn't, say, set up a VIP tent for their high-rolling sponsors. I don't know if this was ever true, but I do know that if they didn't care about the Latino market before, they do now. When your attendance drops by 30-40% and one particular demographic group accounts for most of that drop, you tend to pay more attention to that demographic group. I've heard that alleged, but it would be nice to see some substantiation of it. C'mon already. You're a smart guy. You can probably think of a couple of better reasons why other school districts' facilities may not have made the cut, other than "John Wagner wants to make a power play in his hometown."
I'll grant you the Burn make more from parking at Dragon Stadium than at the Cotton Bowl, but I doubt they're making much at all from concessions or souvenirs. At least in the North Stands, you hardly see anyone buying drinks or food. And considering that fewer than 2000 fans actually attend games nowadays, my guess is that the Burn barely break even on concessions and souvenirs.
Yeah, but that's the reality of the here-and-now. But think back to when this went down at the beginning of the year. Everyone thought that we were going to have sellouts galore and a bunch of games with 9,500 and 10,000 in the stands. That's what all the financial models were based around. And if you approach the whole thing from the standpoint of "10,000 at Southlake vs. 13,000 at Fair Park," you can see why Dragon Stadium looked so good from a financial standpoint. That's why they moved. If the City of Dallas had made the Burn a good counteroffer when HSG went to them with CISD's offer in hand, then the Burn would still be at the Cotton Bowl. I don't even think that it would have to match CISD's deal because at the Cotton Bowl, they could make up for a smaller cut with bigger crowds. But apparently, the City of Dallas wasn't terribly interested in giving HSG and the Burn any sort of cut.
A couple of facts missing from the discussion: 1. Burn got 50% of concessions at the Bowl. This was reported by To-Lo when the move to Southlake was going down. 2. Apparently, the biggest savings is their ability to choose the security force. At the Cotton Bowl they did not have a choice. I don't know the exact $ involved but off the record that is where the biggest savings are. DMZ wanting the business in Frisco gave HSG a real nice deal at Dragon. 3. Somebody at HSG is not aware of the basic budgeting principle of adjusting your forecasts with actuals data as they occur.
Huh. I had no idea. I was under the impression that the Burn got nada. That's pretty interesting. And it makes a lot of sense. The DMZ people have been pretty cool. My experiences with them have been a lot more positive than they were with D&L over at the Cotton Bowl. Certainly, you get the impression from the DMZ folks that they're working for the Burn, as opposed to the bad attitude that you got from the D&L staff.
I'd like to pin it all on Benke(sp?) since he was involved by being completely out of place on 3 goals but they had 2 failed traps that let the Clash run free at the box. 2 multiple goal scorers, one of them gets a frickin' hat trick--in the 1st fargin' half Ugh! I'm glad I stopped paying attention after the 60'
Its easy to look back and see the mistakes made. I am trying to bite my tongue here, but I can't. Where the hell did these models come from - the Alice in Wonderland Guide to Stadiums? When we first heard about this move I held judgement till I actually saw the place. I went to the Burn v UAB exhibition in February. We walked into the reserve side of the stadium, I looked over to my wife and said "This is going to suck." I can see how they thought Dragon might sell out...for a minute. But if they thought about it for 5 minutes any professional "soccer" person who thought that is either an idiot or is lying. IF Lamar moved out of the Cotton Bowl b/c of some 40 year old dipsute with the City of Dallas - then that is dumb. Ignoring the needs of your customers, devaluing and obscuring your product, and then charging more for it was a terrible move. And if an idiot like me could have predicted it, then certainly the experts should have. I don't care if the Burn would have lost a million dollars this season at the Cotton Bowl versus losing $100,000 dollars at the Dragon, this was a bad business move.
HEAR HEAR!! for the long term harm it did. with very little personal history to build on, i've been trying to become a fan of this team in this environment all year?? you can't build a fan base if no one takes you seriously - and you can't take the empty, ugly, football-painted Dragon seriously.
I should probably split this whole line of discussion off onto a different thread, but whatever... I gave them too much credit. 8,000 people were on hand at the Cotton Bowl for the massive match between Monterrey and Clube Atletico. That's basically what the Burn would get on a Wednesday night when they were at the Cotton Bowl. And I'm sure that the Cotton Bowl or the State Fair or whoever had to pay appearance fees to Monterrey and Clube Atletico, something that they never had to do with the Burn. Incidentally, I had a sit-down interview with John Wagner yesterday. It'll be up on 3rd Degree in the next few days. But I asked him if the City of Dallas made any sort of effort to keep the Burn at the Cotton Bowl after the deal with CISD was done. He said that they never heard from the city.
Fair enough. I am real interested to see what he has to say, as I am sure a few other folks here do to.