Bundesliga Assignments and Discussion [Rs]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by balu, Aug 1, 2019.

  1. TxSooner

    TxSooner Member

    Aug 12, 2011
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Just noticed how a team staff member now holds up the substitution board instead of the 4O.
     
  2. sulfur

    sulfur Member+

    Oct 22, 2007
    Ontario, Canada
    The teams each have a sub board and before pandemic-times, it was given to the 4O to show during the substitution.

    Makes sense to be doing it the way they are, minimize the contact with the 4O even further.
     
  3. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
  4. Mikael_Referee

    Jun 16, 2019
    England
    Not confirmed yet and subject to a Coronavirus test tomorrow morning, but yeah it's very likely he'll lead the teams out for the huge game.
     
  5. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sort of goes back to one of the fundamental questions over VAR. Is it about clear mistakes/injustices that "everyone" sees in real-time and technology allows the referee to correct? Or clear factual mistakes that technology can now prove where referees otherwise would have understandably missed?

    If you go by the first standard, you understand the lack of intervention. But it definitely feels like the world (minus England) settled on the second standard, so this miss by the VAR is really hard to comprehend.

    A very interesting question is whether or not this would have been red or yellow if called. I really, really want it to be red because of the cynical nature of it and I think it was much more likely to go into the net than not. But I am not sure you can say 100% definitely that this was a goal.
     
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  6. bothways

    bothways Member

    Jun 27, 2009
    i thought so too, he knew what he was doing,and his hand was not protecting his face. i would have accepted red, but also yellow here.
     
  7. fischietto

    fischietto Member

    Apr 13, 2018
    The clip has since been removed, but I found it on another site. This is so clearly a penalty I am shocked their was no VAR intervention.

    In terms of card color, my “feeling” is that yellow would suffice given I don’t think a certain goal was avoided. What do you guys think is the “preferred” decision for card color in this case (I’m taking as a given that this was a missed penalty)
     
    TimB4Last repped this.
  8. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    Chelsea
    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree with MassRef both that I'd like this to be red, but that it would probably be yellow simply because you can't say with certainty it would be a goal. Going along the same lines with MR's disagreement with my assessment of the Wolfsburg send-off on Saturday, Boateng is a professional. He's in control of his actions, and he knows what he's doing here. I can somewhat understand how this would be missed in live action, but for VAR to not at least call for a delay to review it seems really strange.

    Dortmund didn't do itself many favors by playing so quickly, but you would have thought VAR would have at least told Stieler, "Hold things up a moment - we want to take a look." Everything happened fairly quickly, and you have to wonder if there was a little bit of rust with the officials as things kept moving. Just like the players, the officials would need to get back into "game shape" as well.

    In any case, given how continental Europe has utilized VAR, I was surprised this wasn't overturned.
     
    TimB4Last and fischietto repped this.
  9. bothways

    bothways Member

    Jun 27, 2009
    have not found a clip yet- if someone has one, can they post it
    dortmund vs paderborn- pk given against emre can for handling offense. yellow given
    so- should it have been red, and should pk have been given
    from what I remember, he falls but does move his arm towards the ball.
    I could be wrong
     
  10. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    All Bundesliga matches have full highlights on FOX Soccer. 3:36 below.



    Definitely not red. It's not an obvious goal by any standard. Whether it should have been given at all? That's a much better question.
     
  11. RefGil

    RefGil Member

    Dec 10, 2010
    Agreed 0% chance of red. No way you can say with any certainty that this prevented the ball from going in the net.

    In my matches, no call, ball played him, let's get the CK going, et c.

    At the professional level? I still don't see that the arm is in an unnatural position; the only way it's closer in is to have been taped down. And even then, the ball probably hits his arm. When you're going down like that, the arm is going to pull away from the body a bit. Esse's famous "you took a risk. Too bad, so sad" no longer applies.

    Just as importantly for our conversation, VAR shouldn't intervene, as either decision (PK or CK) is defensible and not "obviously wrong"
     
  12. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    Why isn't Bibi enforcing the new attacker-one-yard-from-the-wall rule? Did that go away?
     
  13. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    23 matches and counting. Though the six yellow cards she handed out in Werder Bremen's 0-1 defeat to Wolfsburg matches her highest in a game.
     
  14. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Did the wall have three or more defenders?
     
  15. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    Yes. Maybe precisely three, perhaps four. Definitely at least three.
     
  16. threeputzzz

    threeputzzz Member+

    May 27, 2009
    Minnesota
    So watched some of a match yesterday, sorry don't even remember who, but question is the crowd noise, is it being pumped into the stadium or just overlaid on the tv broadcast?
     
  17. unclesox

    unclesox BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 8, 2003
    209, California
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Over the stadium's public address system .
     
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  18. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    Chelsea
    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've heard both that the crowd noise is over the public address system and that the crowd noise is only available on TV feeds. I could definitely see where players would want at least some crowd noise, but my understanding was that the TV feed was dictating the crowd noise.
     
    unclesox repped this.
  19. unclesox

    unclesox BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 8, 2003
    209, California
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    #70 unclesox, Jun 9, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2020
    Looks like you are correct! Apparently Sky Deutschland gives broadcasters the option of telecasting Bundesliga world feeds with or without the artificial crowd noise.
    https://www.espn.com/soccer/german-...wd-noise-feed-comes-from-and-how-they-made-it
    https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...rowd-gives-a-game-context-for-the-tv-onlooker
     
    IASocFan repped this.
  20. Pelican86

    Pelican86 Member

    United States
    Jun 13, 2019
    VAR overturns a Dortmund goal for handling. And by "handling," I mean a ball getting kicked into the upper arm/shoulder of an attacker, who then hits a brilliant volley into the back of the net. Good call by the ref according to the laws. And it looks like it was high enough up on the arm that by the 20-21 law changes, it wouldn't have been handling.
     
  21. TxSooner

    TxSooner Member

    Aug 12, 2011
    Club:
    FC Dallas


    This is just yet another example on how the IFAB needs to scrap the recent changes to handling, and give it another go.
     
    RefIADad repped this.
  22. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Paderborn's Klaus Gjasula has set a new record for the most yellow cards in a single season when he was shown a yellow by Christian Dingert in today's match against Werder Bremen. It was Gjasula's 17th yellow cards in 27 games this season. He has yet to receive a red card.
     
  23. Soccer Dad & Ref

    Oct 19, 2017
    San Diego
    Too bad the announcers are not taught the current laws. They both had no clue about the attacking player change.

    so, even if an attacker’s arm is completely at his side and the ball hits it, it’s still within last year’s change? I thought the “even if accidental” was still meant for what we consider accidental when the arm is in a natural position.
     
  24. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    Chelsea
    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Classic example of "Hey, I don't make the rules, I just enforce them." It's the right call (despite what the analyst on the broadcast said), but this interpretation is awful. I'm not optimistic that the law changes will be correctly interpreted next year after the law change happens.
     

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