Bundesliga Assignments and Discussion [Rs]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by balu, Aug 1, 2019.

  1. sulfur

    sulfur Member+

    Oct 22, 2007
    Ontario, Canada
  2. LampLighter

    LampLighter Member

    Bugeaters FC
    Apr 13, 2019
  3. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Clear error? :confused:

    The feed is choppy for me, which may affect my view. To me, the foul on the attacker is the better call, as the GK appears to very momentarily secure the ball. But I really have trouble getting from that to clear error.
     
  4. LampLighter

    LampLighter Member

    Bugeaters FC
    Apr 13, 2019
    Probably because of the nature of how people perceive slow motion, it's better to still call this even if the control is very momentary? Just because this will be on screens around the world, at super slow mo, as the commentators rip apart the referees and the referee explanation won't even been read out.
     
  5. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Fun fact: In Bibiana Steinhaus’ 18 Bundesliga games, stretching across 2.5 seasons, she has yet to hand out a single red card.
     
  6. LampLighter

    LampLighter Member

    Bugeaters FC
    Apr 13, 2019
    I hope you didn't jinx her.
     
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  7. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Several big matches in the Bundesliga this weekend. Fritz in charge at the Allianz Arena as leaders Bayern host second-placed Leipzig; Steinhaus is VAR. Schmidt gets the game at BayArena where third-placed Dortmund will look to continue their recent form at fifth-placed Leverkusen. And Aytekin takes charge of the Rheinland derby when fourth-placed Mönchengladbach host Cologne.

    In the meanwhile, Brych with the boring game Schalke - Paderborn.
     
  8. djmtxref

    djmtxref Member

    Apr 8, 2013
    I only saw part of this game, but in that part Brych had a potential PK more or less coincident with a second ball coming onto the field.

    After a period of consultation with the VAR he opted to restart with a dropped ball.
     
  9. msilverstein47

    msilverstein47 Member+

    Jan 11, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  10. HoustonRef

    HoustonRef Member

    May 23, 2009
    I'm surprised no one has mentioned that the Bundesliga is planning on playing on Saturday, May 16th. At least as of today May 13th. No spectators.
     
  11. voiceoflg

    voiceoflg Member+

    Dec 8, 2005
    With no spectators, it sounds like the referee could use a Fox Pearl and the sound would reverberate just fine.
     
  12. TxSooner

    TxSooner Member

    Aug 12, 2011
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Oh joy, back from lock down, and we get a VAR intervention on a game winning goal in stoppage time for one of those offside (maybe) decisions by a couple of centimeters. That is one thing I did not miss at all.
     
  13. Pelican86

    Pelican86 Member

    United States
    Jun 13, 2019
    In both games I've watched today (Dortmund vs Schalke and Eintracht Frankfurt vs Monchengladbach) the coin toss happened at midfield with both teams already out and in position. I wonder if that was planned. I thought that only happened in U13 tournament games where I'm running late, the teams have already picked sides, and I tell the captain who wins the toss "Ball or side...well, I guess we're not going to make everyone switch, are we?"
     
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  14. Alex-Ref

    Alex-Ref Member

    Liverpool FC
    United States
    Nov 13, 2019
    Anyone have a link to the Bundesliga assignments?
     
  15. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Here: https://www.dfb.de/sportl-strukturen/schiedsrichter/ansetzungen/

    Aytekin did Dortmund's 4-0 win over Schalke in the Revierderby yesterday, Dankert for the interesting Union Berlin - Bayern Munich match today. Brych, Zwayer, and Gräfe also already in action.
     
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  16. Soccer Dad & Ref

    Oct 19, 2017
    San Diego
    I think the publicly seen coin flips are ceremonial only. The real one happens earlier.
     
  17. El Rayo Californiano

    Feb 3, 2014
    I could very well be wrong, but I think today Dankert switched from a Valkeen to a Fox 40 during the second half.

    I like hearing the teams communicate. I like hearing the thump of the ball. Now I want to watch an empty-stadium Spanish first division match with Mateu Lahoz refereeing.
     
  18. colman1860

    colman1860 Member

    Nov 13, 2012
    London, England


    As you can read from the translation, the referee is not convinced by the angles he sees, but awards the penalty on the VAR's say so anyway. The referee's side of the conversation is picked up in full by the pitchside microphones. Stuttgart have now put in a formal protest, as they lost the game after the resulting penalty was scored.

    I'd love to know how often this sort of thing happens. Quite the coincidence if the only time the referee cedes responsibility to the VAR despite not seeing a clear and obvious error was on the one weekend with no crowd noise and a well placed microphone.
     
  19. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    At 1:24 of the video, he seems to be first questioning and then acknowledging the ball-to-hand contact. So I'm not sure one can say he's awarding the penalty solely on the VAR's say-so. If the translation is accurate, yes, he's expressing doubts the whole way. But that's part of built-in to the process. With only hearing half the audio, things can get twisted here. To me, it seems like the referee believes there is a handball offence and a penalty IF he can be shown conclusive video that that the hand-to-ball contact occurred. He has doubts and is then convinced, so it's a penalty. Not really a controversy at all if that's how this played out.

    If someone can prove that the referee had doubts about the hand-to-ball contact right to the end and took the decision to award the penalty even though he still held those doubts, then yes, that's a problem. And to answer your question, to my knowledge it never happens elsewhere--at least not in situations where everyone is well-trained. Having heard a substantial amount of the audio in MLS, a referee will very often (relatively speaking) tell a VAR that he or she is not showing him enough to be convinced and I've even heard a referee or two chastise a VAR for presenting what they feel is weak evidence.
     
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  20. greek ref

    greek ref Member

    Feb 27, 2013
    Club:
    Panathinaikos Athens
    Nat'l Team:
    Greece
    What bothers me is the VAR intervention. IMO, with that angle we can't really talk about a clear and obvious error.
     
  21. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    Chelsea
    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Bad overturn into a send off in the Dortmund-Wolfsburg game. Klaus (Wolfsburg) goes into a shoulder challenge, then as he’s off balance he comes down on the Dortmund player’s calf. Siebert is advised to go to the monitor, then decides on a send off.

    I fail to see how a play like that is clearly and obviously a send off. The commentators were saying the usual wrong stuff about being deliberate and all of that, but that play just isn’t a red card. It sure just looked like a very unfortunate accident.
     
  22. GlennAA11

    GlennAA11 Member+

    Jun 12, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    the VAR-spotted send off in this Dortmund-Wolfsburg match seems rather dubious to me. Looks like a simple "coming together" to me. As always when you slow it down so much it looks worse
     
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  23. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    The streak now stands at 22.
     
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  24. Soccer Dad & Ref

    Oct 19, 2017
    San Diego
    Agreed. Didn’t see a stomping motion at all, his foot never went all the way down to the ground, trying to lighten his mistake.
     
  25. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Definitely disagree with almost all of this. The only thing I can agree with is that maybe—maybe—it doesn’t quite rise to the level of VAR intervention as clearly wrong.

    But it’s a red card in a classroom setting. Do not be fooled here. All the talk of this as a coming together or an accident? C’mon. Your studs don’t go into the calf of an opponent like that with force by sheer chance—ever. When’s the last time you saw that happen in your local u15 game? Now add the professional layer where players are infinitely more in control or their bodies. This is a dirty challenge and it’s incredibly dangerous. It’s excessive force by any standard.

    He didn’t try to “lighten his mistake.” Sure he didn’t push forward to the ground, which would have been an act of attempted amputation. But the original act itself absolutely never needed to happen.
     

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