Bundesliga alltime TOP100(2017 Bild)

Interesting list (not saying I would necessarily agree with all the rankings but meh)

Robben being ranked 10 places ahead of ribery based strictly on league form seems at least to me slightly odd
I always rated peak robben(2014) slightly ahead of ribery but when it comes to to consistency there is only really one winner

And T.muller ahead of KHR...
(No Chance whatsoever)
Rumminge was world class in every single attacking position he played.
The difference in technical ability between the 2 is so vast it isn't even Worth discussing further
Rumminge was at his peak arguably the best player in the world competing against very stiff competition
(Zico, a teenage wonder maradona, Kevin Keegan etc)

Dare I say even if this era did not boast 2 all time attacking talents Muller would still be behind maybe 20 players give or take
Suarez, Neymar, robben, ribery, Ibrahimovic, Rooney, xavi, iniesta, luca modric, Gareth Bale, Robin van persie, pirlo, tevez, aguero, Yaya toure, Sergio busquets, sergio Ramos, Thiago silva,Dani Alves and Philip lahm all easily rank above in their respective positions

Klose being ranked above klinsmann is clearly dodgy
And Mario Gomez all the down near 90th place despite being at his peak the most efficient and effective goal poacher since RVN

I will most probably experience a panic attack if I carry on reading this list any further so I will stop here and let someone else take over

 

Taking this newest ranking I had a look at the greatest foreign players:

010. Robben 1500
012. Lewandowski 1450
019. Elber 1265
020. Ribery 1225
025. Keegan 1008
026. Pizarro 848
035. Ze Roberto 716
040. Yeboah 627
046. Aubameyang 557
047. Simonsen 532
048. Chapuisat 518
051. Micoud 494
053. Okocha 487
054. Lucio 468
057. Balakov 416
059. Marcelinho 376
060. Ailton 374
062. Raul 365
063. Diego Ribas 362
064. de Bruyne 343
074. van der Vaart 259
076. Bratseth 241
077. Amoroso 241
078. Rosicky 240
079. Lizarazu 232
088. Pfaff 172
089. Dzeko 169
090. Rufer 167
091. Pezzey 167
095. Barbarez 143
096. Luca Toni 143
099. Jorginho 135

I agree with no. 1 Robben but Bruno Pezzey is much too low and some players are too high. Have I overlooked him or is Bum Kun Cha really not in the list? Petar Radenkovic is not in it, either. Both omissions are unacceptable. Looks like there is not a single foreign player from the 1960s .... Zeljko Perusic, Willi Huberts, Zvezdan Cebinac, Fahrudin Jusufi, Gilbert Gress spring to mind.

 

In 1993 TV-channel "Premiere" (now owned by Sky) published a book for the 30th anniversary of the Bundesliga.
Among other things, it featured a Top 10 for various positions:

Goalkeepers




Comment: Raimond Aumann should not be featured in a top 10 of goalkeepers. Instead, Norbert Nigbur should be here. Bodo Illgner is also a bit debatable.

Sweepers




Comment: Stielike was a defensive midfielder for his clubs. Only for the national team did he play as sweeper. He should not be in this list as a sweeper. Steiner has absolutely no business here. Nachtweih only played two seasons as a sweeper (1986-88). Players like Klaus Fichtel and Rune Bratseth (who are erroneously among the stoppers) as well as Per Roentved and Willi Neuberger are more fitting for this list.

Full Backs




Comment: Bernard Dietz much too low at no. 10. Schnellinger being featured at all is nonsense, as he only played one season in the Bundesliga right at the end of his career (1974-75) and then he played as a sweeper not as full back.

Stoppers




Comment: as mentioned before Fichtel and Bratseth should be in the sweepers list. Buchwald ahead of Kohler is debatable, as Kohler was a pure stopper while Buchwald was more variable as he also played as sweeper and defensive midfielder.

Defensive Midfielders




Comment: Hässler should be among the offensive midfielders. Hansi Dorfner has no business here (additionally to being a offensive midfielder) and Horst Szymaniak is similar to Karl-Heinz Schnellinger. He only played one season in the Bundesliga in the twilight of his career (1965-66) which in no way should warrant him a place in the top 10.

 

Offensive Midfielders



Comment: Schuster in the Top 10 is stretching it a bit, as he only played in the Bundesliga at the very start of his career (1978-1980) and at the very end (1993-1996) and thus his very best years are not represented. Thus he should not be ahead of Magath at least. Littbarski could be featured among the wingers but it's alright to have him in here (similar to Grabowski). I would place Manfred Burgsmüller in this list instead of Peter Grosser.

Wingers



Comment: I think Uli Hoeness is too high being featured in the Top 5 and he sould not be ahead of Libuda, Simonsen or Klaus Allofs. Willi Lippens is a player I would add to this list, perhaps even instead of Uli Hoeness (who was not a clear-cut winger but more a forward behind a striker).

Strikers




Comment: Klaus Fischer should at least be no. 3. While Uwe Seeler was a greater striker than Fischer overall, Seeler's best years (1958-1964) were before the Bundesliga started. Instead of Brunnenmeier and Wohlfarth, Dieter Müller and perhaps Manfred Burgsmüller (who was actually an offensive midfielder) should be featured here.

 

Without a forwards/support forwards category, I guess Keegan should really be in AMs too (rather than strikers which would be 1st/2nd choice behind forwards for his Liverpool years I'd think)?

Although I think the label is 'Playmakers' isn't it so maybe they just didn't see him as that.

 

Yes it's actually playmakers, not offensive midfielders. The defensive midfielders are actually labelled just midfielders, which is misleading so I used defensive and offensive midfielders instead. They have Keegan among the wingers. Keegan is one of those players who are hard to describe with a single tactical term. I think support striker of forward would be best.

 

Yes, maybe 'outdoor strikers' (although maybe that translation is not very accurate) is not meant to only refer to old-fashioned touchline-hugging wingers but also take in wide or general support forwards anyway? Which fits well for Rummenigge/Simonsen/Hoeness (and as you say young Littbarski) too I suppose.

Anyway, clearly they tried to base the choices on a 4-3-3, as it was a common Bundesliga formation - maybe even with more like 3 strikers at times though even? (like Real Madrid would have used in 85/86 too with Butragueno/Sanchez/Valdano or like Juventus had with Vialli/Ravenelli/Baggio or Del Piero even if arguably/sometimes the latter would be more of an AM/trequarista as opposed to left striker/forward. Rummenigge was more of a pure winger in his earlier days wasn't he (albeit in attack not midfield), as opposed to general forward/wing forward/striker/support striker? Maybe Breitner was borderline between midfielder and playmaker? It is surprising he's in a further forward category than Hassler anyway seemingly.

 

'Aussen' in this context means 'outside' (outside forwards, not outdoors) and goes along the English terms 'outside left' and 'outside right'. Rummenigge just like Keegan was more of a support striker who had license to roam anywhere he wanted on the pitch and indeed was not a touchline hugger like Libuda for example. But if one wants to categorize him, "winger" (German term: Flügel or Flügelstürmer = wing forward) will most often be the term of choice in Germany. Though most people would just refer to him and others of his kind as "Stürmer" (striker) without going into more refined characteristics. True, Rummenigge started out as a pure winger, because Beckenbauer, Hoeness and Müller occupied the center regularly so his natural place was that of a provider coming from the flanks. When these three players had left Bayern by 1979, he would start to blossom as a can-do-all offensive player and he was encouraged by his manager Pal Csernai and Paul Breitner to do anything he wanted without tactical restrictments. Breitner was a cross between 10 and 6 and thus logically wore 8.

They probably put Hässler among the "midfielders" because they weren't sure about him being a winger or a playmaker. In Germany, a playmaker since the days of Netzer and Overath is someone who usually drops deep and then spreads very long and accurate passes. That was not Hässler's thing and neither was it Littbarski's. Yet they put Littbarski in the playmaker category but not Hässler, which is a bit inconsequential. But inconsequence is a main characteristic of lists like this. Personally I would have put Littbarski into the wingers category because I think he was just one of the best wingers ever seen in the Bundesliga. He did very well as a support striker (not a playmaker in the classic 70s sense), too, but was just more exceptional as a winger. Regarding Hässler I might just quote from the "Rangliste" thread I did a few years ago:

Thomas ‘Icke’ Hässler was one of the most prominent and beloved midfielders of German football in the 1990s. A diminutive, stocky player with a low center of gravity who possessed a brilliant technique and was very adept at quick turns in close space with the ball tied to his right foot. A great short passer and very fine tempo dribbler. Another specialty was bending the ball viciously at freekicks. A successful blend of a tireless midfield worker, a playmaker and a tricky winger. A rare breed in that he was an individualist who was committed to teamplay.

This may show that it is hard to fit Hässler into a category without doing some of his characteristics an injustice.

On Littbarski:

A dribbling prodigy of small stature, Pierre Littbarski began on the right wing but later became an offensive midfielder. In both guises, he was one of the best players ever seen in German football. Like Lippens he was a joker to whom professional football was basically the same as street football. His low center of gravity and his bowlegs favored his dribbling immensely. He was very dangerous coming from midfield, a very able short passer who always wanted to feel the ball at his feet. A typical ‘late Littbarski’ move was taking a run from midfield advancing towards the box where he would dummy one or two opponents with his quick sidestepping and then finish by bending the ball in a mean way towards the far corner of the goal. With his shooting technique, he proved to be a formidable taker of freekicks, too, and was an exceptional player in one-on-one situations. Possessing considerable stamina, Littbarski was a perfect fit for the German national team of the 1980s, yet not always an undisputed starter. Littbarski was right-footed but with a very good left foot, thus he was seen moving a lot between the flanks without his actions losing punch.

Littbarski like Grabowski is difficult to fit into a category because he excelled in two roles: that of winger and then of offensive midfielder.

 

Breitner is named twice, as Full Back and Midfielder.

 

Yeah, Littbarski did sometimes play as roaming forward I think didn't he (including alongside Hrubesch in 1982, although using the wings a lot) but probably they are using his current/recent categorisation rather than a forward based one anyway.

I think Hassler at times operated from mainly the right of midfield (more like a winger but in the Englsih 1980's mould rather than German/Dutch) but AM seems good to me in general (and I think in Euro 92 AM would fit best?).

Maybe the 3-5-2 wing-back systems that came into German football (including being used in the 1990 WC) made them likely AM's (occasionally alongside each other in 1990 wasn't it, but usually one or the other especially when Buchwald played in midfield).

There aren't that many current (as of 1993) players listed so probably it shows that Riedle was well very regarded at that time. On the other hand it probably also shows Sammer really came into his own as sweeper (although he'd also played in Italy but playing abroad didn't stop other inclusions as you've said) as we know really.

 

I was going to say they could have done the same for Beckenbauer (sweeper/midfielder), but actually Gregoriak would rightly point out he didn't actually play that much in the Bundesliga as a midfielder (but stayed in that role for the NT for quite a while).

They could have for Littbarski, but doing it too often might seem a waste of a space that can go to another player.

 

Of course for a while Sammer (and Doll, Thom etc) were playing in the East German league, not the Bundesliga (but they moved to the Bundesliga about the same time as Jorginho, though Doll went to Italy after one season).

I wonder where the likes of Joachim Streich and Jurgen Croy would have been placing had Germany been unified with one league in their time.

 

Do you think Skoblar should be included for his time at Hannover, or did he not play enough?

 

Cha bum kun?

 

Difficult to say as I personally know basically nothing in depth about East German players. Not my kind of coffee. Their league was rigged but occasionally their clubs did well internationally. One thing I am sure though is that these East German internationals would have had a hard time getting into the West German national team at the time. Hence I dislike that the German FA DFB is including East German players in their own all-time most games and most games for "Germany" lists. Had someone like Felix Magath been playing for East Germany, he would certainly have been a started for the team for 10 straight years (1976 to 1986) collecting cap after cap after cap, like lesser East German players did who now are listed way ahead of Magath (or other superior West German players).

 

Skoblar did not do well for Hannover 96. I don't remember it exactly but he did not like the harsh training methods and the close man-marking in the Bundesliga. Both parties were disappointed of each other (Hannover of Skoblar and Skoblar of Hannover). So Skoblar definitely did not play well enough to be included in all-time winger lists for the Bundesliga. It is amazing how well he did in France afterwards.

 

One of those players that definitely could have made it instead of some others.

 

Yeah, I guess Streich would have had Heynckes potentially blocking his entry to the combined/one nation team (theoretically), for example for Euro 72, and surely ended up with considerably less goals/caps, whether or not he'd be more famous now. Likewise Croy/Maier perhaps.

 

True.

 

Inspired by the 1993 "Premiere" Top 10 rankings per position, I thought it could be interesting coming up with similar top 10 rankings per position by decade. For that, I looked at the grades given by "sportmagazin" and then "kicker-sportmagazin" and ranked the players according to the best grades. Keep in mind that in Germany, the lowest grade is the best (1= very good, 5=terrible). The minimum graded games per season for a player is 15 if he has less than 15 games with a grade per season that season will not be included. And a player has to have a minimum of three seasons per decade.

1963-1969

Strikers
avg. player
2.14 Seeler
2.38 Heynckes
2.43 G.Müller
2.52 Brungs
2.56 C.Müller
2.56 W.Solz
2.62 Rodekamp
2.66 Emmerich
2.66 Brunnenmeier
2.72 Löhr

Wingers
avg. player
1.87 Rupp
2.21 Held
2.27 H.Wimmer
2.42 Hornig
2.44 Volkert
2.46 Gerwien
2.46 Neuberger
2.47 G.Dörfel
2.50 Grabowski
2.52 Maas
2.52 Cebinac

Withdrawn Forwards/
Offensive Midfielders
avg. player
1.82 Netzer
2.04 Krämer
2.18 Gress
2.25 Overath
2.26 A.Schmidt
2.28 Ulsass
2.32 Zaczyk
2.33 Konietzka
2.33 Siemensmeyer
2.35 Strehl

Half Backs/
Defensive Midfielders
avg. player
1.80 Marx
1.89 W.Schmidt
1.95 Perusic
2.10 H.Sturm
2.10 H.J.Neumann
2.22 van Haaren
2.22 Neuser
2.23 Nolden
2.24 Kurrat
2.30 Larsson

Stoppers
avg. player
2.09 Weber
2.17 Kaack
2.36 L.Müller
2.36 Olk
2.38 Lindner
2.41 Horst
2.44 Assauer
2.45 Menne
2.48 Reich
2.49 Schwager

Sweepers
avg. player
1.68 Beckenbauer
1.86 Fichtel
1.99 Bäse
2.03 Wenauer
2.16 Witlatschil
2.20 Schulz
2.20 Sieloff
2.21 Steinmann
2.46 Entenmann
2.47 W.Paul

Full Backs
avg. player
1.86 Vogts
2.15 Höttges
2.20 Jusufi
2.20 Lutz
2.20 Saida
2.21 Heidemann
2.22 Patzke
2.25 Kafka
2.35 Sabath
2.36 Rausch

Goalkeepers
avg. player
1.78 Sawitzki
1.88 Wolter
1.89 Maier
1.97 Tilkowski
1.97 M.Paul
1.98 Radenkovic
2.00 Wabra
2.05 Manglitz
2.09 Kunter
2.20 Schnarr

 

1970-1979

Strikers
avg. player
2.46 Seeler
2.64 Jensen
2.72 G.Müller
2.77 Fischer
2.79 Kaczor
2.82 Walitza
2.84 Burgsmüller
2.84 Budde
2.86 Toppmöller
2.93 Keller

Notable absentees:
2.99 Hrubesch
3.11 D.Müller
3.12 Kostedde

Wingers
avg. player
2.38 Simonsen
2.43 Popivoda
2.59 Libuda
2.61 Hölzenbein
2.63 Held
2.63 Heynckes
2.63 E.Kremers
2.71 U.Hoeness
2.72 Lippens
2.73 Rupp
2.73 Le Fevre

Notable absentees:
2.74 Volkert
2.75 K.Allofs
2.81 K.Rummenigge
2.98 Löhr

Offensive Midfielders
avg. player
2.07 Netzer
2.28 Grabowski
2.29 Friedrich
2.30 Breitner
2.36 Seel
2.46 Overath
2.51 Flohe
2.54 Oblak
2.57 Beer
2.60 Zaczyk

Notable absentees:
2.09 Keegan (not included because only 2 full seasons)
2.36 H.Müller (dito)
2.70 Bongartz
2.87 Magath

Defensive Midfielders
avg. player
2.38 Bonhof
2.44 H.Wimmer
2.53 Tenhagen
2.53 Kurrat
2.59 van Haaren
2.59 Pavlic
2.62 Linssen
2.66 Danner
2.69 Stielike
2.73 Schäfer

Stoppers
avg. player
2.21 Witt
2.32 L.Müller
2.33 Rüssmann
2.39 Kliemann
2.48 Weber
2.55 Kaack
2.58 G.Zimmermann
2.63 Diehl
2.64 Anders
2.65 Pirsig
2.65 Jakobs

Notable absentees:
2.30 K.Förster (not included because only 2 full seasons)
2.69 Körbel
2.71 Schwarzenbeck

Sweepers
avg. player
1.83 Beckenbauer
2.24 Fichtel
2.30 Sieloff
2.43 Wittkamp
2.45 K.Franke
2.47 Damjanoff
2.49 Schulz
2.49 Neuberger
2.50 Schmitt
2.51 Lutz

Notable absentees:
2.52 Zewe
2.62 Roentved
2.65 Cullmann

Full Backs
avg. player
1.97 Vogts
2.34 Breitner
2.42 Dietz
2.43 Heidemann
2.44 Höttges
2.50 H.Zimmerman
2.51 Kaltz
2.58 H.Kremers
2.59 Groh
2.60 Grzyb

Notable absentees:
2.54 Briegel (not included because only 2 full seasons)
2.71 Hansen
2.78 B.Förster

Goalkeepers
avg. player
2.03 Hellström
2.06 Nigbur
2.07 B.Franke
2.12 Burdenski
2.18 Maier
2.20 Bernard
2.21 Gross
2.22 Kunter
2.27 Scholz
2.29 Heinze

Notable absentees:
2.33 Kargus
2.41 Kleff
2.50 Schumacher