Bundesliga 2023/24 - Wolfsburg or Bayern? - It's the same question as the years before

Discussion in 'Germany Mädels: NT and Frauen-Bundesliga' started by Lohmann, Aug 9, 2023.

  1. Lohmann

    Lohmann Member+

    Arminia Bielefeld
    Germany
    Feb 24, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    blissett repped this.
  2. Lohmann

    Lohmann Member+

    Arminia Bielefeld
    Germany
    Feb 24, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Frankfurt - Freiburg 4:2(2:1)
    Freigang(16, 54), Chiba(34), Reuteler(85) - Kayikci(6), Schasching(90+3)


    1.Bayern 57 56-7
    2.Wolfsburg 50 61-19
    3.Frankfurt 41 41-25
    4.Essen 35 33-20
    5.Hoffenheim 34 42-31
    6.Leverkusen 31 32-22
    7.Leipzig 26 25-39
    8.Bremen 25 31-29
    9.Freiburg 21 24-43
    10.Köln 18 25-42
    11.Nürnberg 12 14-60
    12.Duisburg 4 15-62
     
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  3. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    LOL... Essen are really out here ready to try and finish ahead of Hoffenheim this season...o_O

    2 seasons ago, Essen would finish 10th place sat on 17 points, but could be about to reach 4th place for the first time since 2018/19, in a season they'd collect 41 points with a side featuring a host of future senor wnt talent.

    Schüller, Knaak, Anyomi, Oberdorf, Dallmann, Feldkamp, Hegering, Senß, Johannes all coming from Essen's 2019/20 side too, it makes you wonder who's part of Essen's 2023/24 team who could become established members of the senior wnt...:cautious:

    Pucks, L.Ostermeier, Elmazi, Piljic, Purtscheller, Kowalski, Sterner, Potsi, Winkler, could be names we look back, and say oh... back then Essen had a host of future wnt level talents. And this continues to be really impressive for a club with Essen's obvious limitations
     
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  4. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC


    It's always been all but confirmed to be Barcelona lol...
     
  5. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    I’ve read that Miedema leaving Arsenal(though hasn’t signed with anyone yet) wonder if Stroot’s trying to recruit her? He seems to like anything Dutch
     
  6. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    This summer is looking like Kellermann's most important period of recruitment for this club, with him at all costs needing to start positively by avoiding another underwhelming blunder, bringing Beerensteyn back to the Bundesliga as Pajor's direct replacement...:cautious:

    But no... Miedema isn't the answer for Wolfsburg either, with her long term battle with injuries not seeing her return the same player, I also believe her more likely to remain within the WSL too.
     
  7. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    @hotjam2 look what Wolfsburg able to accomplish with Sellner - Roord as their two main forwards. Sellner scoring a total 24 goals in her first season too, proving to be a perfect example of what this club needs to try and replicate next season.

    If they do seek to recruit a direct replacement for Pajor, it would be an error if she's not able to provide the same traits of direct speed in transition, and a strong ability to create shooting opportunities for herself, and others.
     
  8. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    LOL.... having thought about this... I know Beerensteyn has some horribly selfish tendancies, but I think it make absolute sense that Wolfsburg actively seek to recruit Beerensteyn as Pajor's replacement.

    27 now, knowing Beerensteyn's style of play, and Wolfsburg's need for a 2nd forward not named Kalma... it's obvious this is the #1 transfer Kellermann makes this summer.

    And you know what... when I described Wolfsburg's needs being "Direct speed in transition, and a strong ability to create shooting opportunities for herself, and others" I might as well just said this is Beerensteyn, no...?

    LOL... Wolfsburg style of attacking would perfectly accommodate the addition of Beerensteyn. Sooooo, I might need to apologise to Beerensteyn if she does join, and finds instant success alongside SJJ, Brand, Endemann, Popp, Huth, Blomqvist...:cautious:
     
  9. BIHfan

    BIHfan Member+

    Borussia Dortmund
    Bosnia and Herzegovina
    Oct 13, 2020
    As far as I know, a move back to Germany is not an option for Miedema, she is going to Manchester City.
     
  10. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #2385 hotjam2, May 15, 2024 at 6:25 AM
    Last edited: May 15, 2024 at 6:31 AM
    Beerensteyn comes across as just one dimensional fwd. On the other hand, Miedema multi task player who would fit right in with Wolfsburg’s inter-changeable style where she can easily switch positions through out the same game. If I remember, Miedema played the #10 at the 2019 WC finals vs the over-the-hill gang and still looked more dangerous than Beerensteyn positioned ahead of her at the #9.

    The only thing, Miedema most likely will command an high salary that not sure if WOB can or even wants to match—-as the club’s proven a little on the cheap side with all the players their letting go.

    and nope, you can’t say WOB’s only trying to improve their lineup(with all that’s leaving) their giving up Oberdorf got CHRIST sake, lol
     
  11. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    #2386 Batfink, May 15, 2024 at 8:32 AM
    Last edited: May 15, 2024 at 8:41 AM
    Huh...:confused: This reads like you've never seen Miedema play football lol (She's been a successful winger...o_O), and have no genuine understanding of what Wolfsburg might want/need with the exit of Pajor.

    Plus we're talking about a Wolfsburg already featuring Blomqvist, Xhemaili, Hagel, as CAM's competing with Popp, and Huth in this role too; making the need for Miedema as a CAM highly questionable, when it's a #9 Pajor that Kellermann is looking to replace.

    And in this scenario, Beerensteyn is clearly stylistically another version of Pajor... and you use any basic analysis of her skill-set, it starts to become incredibly blatant why Beerensteyn would probably find a lot of success playing within Wolfsburg's transition focused style of attack.

    This coming from someone who see's Beerensteyn's low decision making IQ as a major negative to her overall quality. But just being objective here, removing bias, Beerensteyn actually fits Wolfsburg system perfectly...:speechless:

    I don't think money is the main reason Wolfsburg's seen some of their various talent moving to rivals like Lyon and Barcelona.

    People always ignoring how long Wolfsburg have remained one of the top sides within European competition, also ignore how they've done this constantly recruiting impressive young talent and developing them into some of the games most effective players.

    Meaning it's only natural they'll see constant rotation with this process of talent development, as it's simply not realistic to expect every one of these players to remain at Wolfsburg for their entire careers...:confused:

    Examples here being Pajor joining as a teen would spend NINE YEARS with Wolfsburg lol. Hansen joining as a teen would spend 5 years with the club. Oberdorf joining as a teen 4 years. Harder being the only big name here who would leave far too early, chasing UWCL titles she's never going to win now...:whistling:

    So who else are these huge names Wolfsburg are losing based on them being cheap.. short term names like Engen, or Rolfö..? Rolfo not having the best time at Wolfsburg, Engen replaced by a superior Oberdorf, I think the only player who left Wolfsburg too early based on money, has been Harder, and look how this worked for Harder Vs how this worked for Wolfsburg.
     
  12. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    And... Wolfsburg are just supposed to roll over a die now, because a few people like your self don't understand the concepts behind this being a TEAM sport...:rolleyes:

    Look, where's Wolfsburg developed it's biggest weakness... defence. Checking CM/DM stats this season, who's produced he most amount of successful tackles.. Senß, and which CM/DM stats in tackling closet to Oberdorf this season... Minge, hmmmmm...:whistling:

    Losing a world class 22yo CM like Oberdorf after 4 years with the club not ideal, but replacing her with a 24yo soon to be wnt regular like Minge is actually very smart; with the big joke revealed this season, being the obvious far reaching negative effects evidenced with the departure of Rauch...:speechless:

    LOL, nobody ever viewing the importance of Rauch towards Wolfsburg general play, this team would go from a FB providing 11 assists, 2 goals last season, with some of the most effective progressive forward passing in all of Europe, to having Rabano, and Wilms, combine for a grand total of... zero goals, and THREE assists all season...o_O

    Showing us how the big picture for Wolfsburg this summer not about replacing Janssen, Oberdorf, or Pajor, but in fact replacing Rauch lol. The way Wolfsburg plays, their FB's are a huge part of what makes them able to execute an effective high press, and progress the ball to their forwards.

    And should Kellermann bring Linder to his club, instantly that's a huge upgrade towards Wolfsburg's effectiveness next season, for a team that could easily see significant improvement after losing big names, all thanks to the nature of Kellermann potentially making intelligent signings in the right areas.
     
  13. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    @hotjam2 .. LOL... remove any preconceived negative thoughts, and just think about what Pajor provides Wolfsburg's attack, what Sellner did in her first season replacing Pajor, how this could translate to what Beerensteyn does here...


    Kalma good, but really isn't a Wolfsburg player. And without Sellner for an unknown period of time, Beerensteyn makes even more sense than Blackstenius, as Beerensteyn can actually remain just as effective being deployed within both winger roles too.
     
  14. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    @Batfink Miedema did play central/sriker in all of the Netherlands playoff games at the 2017 Euros, here's configuration in the final
    Netherlands vs. Denmark - 6 August 2017 - Women Soccerway
    but now notice the position of Miedema n the 2019 WC final
    United States vs. Netherlands - 7 July 2019 - Women Soccerway
    but being to play at wings too would be an extra reason for WOB to hire

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

    pretty sure JUV just wants to get rid of Beerensteyn; she currently only the 3rd leading scorer on the team despite playing striker, The club has seen their team go from #1 to #2 in the Italian league since Beerensteyn's arrival & just added an hotshot Nigerina at fwd. So feels like WOB just getting 2nd fiddle if they do deicde to hire her

    If I remember Harder, Hansen & Pajor were already big names in either the senior or youth scene before signing with WOB which commanded already a lot of respect after winning the Champion's league twice in an row. Now, just don't know if WOB had the money to compete with other emerging club's since then
     
  15. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    #2390 Batfink, May 15, 2024 at 12:14 PM
    Last edited: May 15, 2024 at 12:19 PM
    She's never... repeat never, been winger. And I think everyone who follows women's football knows about Miedema's quality as a lone FW, but again... with all the injuries, it's been a very long time since we've seen this peak level Meidema on the field of play...:unsure:

    Honestly...it feels like your blinded by the clout attached to Meidema's name right now, more than using any reasonable analysis of the types of attacking qualities Wolfsburg actually needs.to bring to their current squad...:cautious:

    LOL... imagine blaming it all on Beerensteyn for Roma beating Juve to the title, not knowing only a few weeks ago initial reports had Roma interested in recruiting Beerensteyn from their closest rivals...:rolleyes:

    However, with a 1st choice forward Popp still in impressive condition, and seeing all the attacking threat this team already posses, if your looking at what Wolfsburg currently needs, and look at the best options available, it obvious why Beerensteyn could be a very effective 2nd or 1st choice option FW within Wolfsburg's system.

    When you understand creating and scoring goals not the problem for Wolfsburg... you start to get a better grasp of what could make Beerensteyn a potentially smart signing for Kellermann to make.
     
  16. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    #2391 Batfink, May 15, 2024 at 12:57 PM
    Last edited: May 15, 2024 at 1:07 PM
    No... I'm sure you 100% don't know anything about Pajor, Harder, Hansen pre Wolfsburg lol, because I doubt many people actually know about any substantially large transfer fee's ever needed to be paid for these players in the past, in ways that would see Wolfsburg unable to continue the exact same practice right now in today's transfer landscape...:rolleyes:

    And having seen what Roord and Sellner would do in the absence of Pajor and Popp, I'm also pretty confident this practice of clubs recruiting less heralded names, will continue to produce positive results for many years to come.

    I mean.... right now there's absolutely nothing preventing impressive young talent like SJJ, Brand, Küver, Endemann, continuing the tradition of using the platform of Wolfsburg to establish themselves among the very best in Europe.

    With Frankfurt also moving towards a similar position to do the same thing too, eventually creating a strong team based around a strong domestic core of talent, all maturing together over a extended period of time, supplemented at the right moments with strong international names.

    This more than one or two clubs simply throwing money around. You don't even know Wolfsburg's 2 UWCL trophies factually coming from it's strong core of domestic talent lol. Leaving me to think your projecting an incredibly inaccurate history of 1.Bundesliga football, to try and make another bad take sound correct...:unsure:
     
  17. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
  18. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid


    seems like you’ve contradicted yourself as I never never wrote that she’s an winger

    the rest of your posts a bit condescending considering your previous expertise in predictions a few years ago had Scheuer leading Bayern to the Champions League, lol
     
  19. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #2394 hotjam2, May 16, 2024 at 6:38 AM
    Last edited: May 16, 2024 at 6:48 AM
    So Cerci moving to Hoffenheim, interesting move since they already got Kossler, Memeti & Alber upfront. Maybe WOB or someone else ready to buy Kossler?
     
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  20. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    No buddy... there's absolutely ZERO contradictions on my end when I'm talking about Meidema not being relevant to any debate on who should potentially replace Pajor.

    With me remaining pretty consistent on this too, as Miedema never been a FW who plays just as good, or better, within any other positions besides the #9.

    Even when she deployed as a CAM for Arsenal, it saw their fans highly critical of this adjustment to her position, as they correctly believed it saw effectiveness significantly diminished.

    Yet it was you who's randomly decided to throw her name into the arena to replace Pajor, trying to create some nonsensical reality where she'd be a better fit within Wolfsburg's system... in your words... "being to play at wings too would be an extra reason for WOB to hire"....:confused:

    But, yeah... I'm supposedly the crazy person, who decided to create fictional scenario where someone else mentions Miedema in the context of being a legitimate option as a winger...:rolleyes:

    Condescending to who... and how...? I mean, please... show me where Miedema has ever been effective as a wide forward, in ways that actually fit the way Wolfsburg play football as a team...:unsure:

    Plus what the hell does my belief Jens Scheuer having a better UWCL Bayern team than Straus, have to do with me calling out a completely random opinion that a once elite goal scorer like Miedema, can suddenly convert to being an elite winger age 27, having clearly suffered lasting effects from ACL tears...:confused:
     
  21. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    [​IMG]
    .....o_O
     
  22. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    @hotjam2 Hoffenheim just let Billa go, and brought in a younger potentially better international level forward lol, to reconnect the exciting Cerci and Kössler striker partnership; this being an duo that prior to Cerci's ACL tear, would produce a combined 35 goal contributions in the 2021/22 season for Potsdam...;)

    However, if I'm being honest... looking at who really needed Cerci, I'm thinking Frankfurt should have been her next destination, as their a team in desperate need of a real #9 to help push them towards the next level.

    But with Hoffenheim getting Cerci, you do have to wonder now what this means for their long established 4-3-3 next season, as we've all witnessed how Kössler - Cerci would thrive in Potsdam's 4-4-2...:cautious:

    Right now with Linder probably leaving, this is what I could imagine happening...
    ----------------- Kössler/Steiner -------------------------- Cerci/Corely ------------------------
    Memeti/Alber ------- Diehm/Dongus ---- Feldkamp/Harsch ------ Janssens/H-Füller
    Kaut ----------------- Doorn/Specht -------------------- Cazalla --------------------- Hahn

    And looking at how poor their defence was this season... adjusting their formation to a 4-4-2, might actually be better for them when it comes to creating the type of compact system, that increases the ability of protecting a physically large back 4 that somehow randomly lacks pace...:confused:
     
  23. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    With Leverkusen letting players leave, both Wolfsburg and Hoffenheim would be smart to make inquiries concerning the futures of some of their FB's and CB's...:sneaky:

    But if there's one player who's demonstrated qualities that suggest she should be part of a stronger club next season, in my opinion it's definitely Anna Gerhardt.

    Gerhardt playing for a horrible Köln side, might be this seasons most underrated player. As she's featured among the list of the leagues very best defenders all season, and accomplished this while managing to provide a lot of positive attacking qualities for her offensively weak team too.

    And having seen it happen before... I'm convinced a strong defender like Gerhardt within a weak team, will become an even better defender once their part of an overall stronger 11...:whistling:
     
  24. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    LOL... it seems Oberdorf didn't ignore the wave of WSL fan's attacking her for deciding to stay in Germany...:giggle:; with her taking major issue seeing comments about her not having a backbone lol, even though she's leaving Wolfsburg to join their closets domestic rivals...:confused:

    Not looking close to full fitness during the first half of the current season, within a Wolfsburg side that looked completely broken after their league and UWCL collapse a few months earlier, you could see something wasn't right.

    But it was always weird seeing the large majority of the angry responses to her move coming from fans of rival teams outside of Germany, where Wolfsburg's own supporters seemed mainly reasonable in their acceptance of why Oberdorf would feel the need to leave for a fresh start somewhere new.
     
  25. Lohmann

    Lohmann Member+

    Arminia Bielefeld
    Germany
    Feb 24, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    2.Bundesliga
    Potsdam - Mönchengladbach 2:1


    Potsdam will be promoted tomorrow if Jena lose in Weinberg or Meppen does not win in Hoffenheim.
     
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