Bundesliga 2023/24 - Wolfsburg or Bayern? - It's the same question as the years before

Discussion in 'Germany Mädels: NT and Frauen-Bundesliga' started by Lohmann, Aug 9, 2023.

  1. BIHfan

    BIHfan Member+

    Borussia Dortmund
    Bosnia and Herzegovina
    Oct 13, 2020
    Well yes the financial gap between the 1. and the 2. Frauen Bundesliga is bigger than some might think.
     
  2. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    And this is why I feel it's particularly annoying watching so many big clubs take this fake nobility approach towards their female teams ascending through the nations league pyramid..:cautious:

    Carl Zeiss Jena being a lower league club, and Turbine Potsdam being one of the few remaining women's only clubs, you fully expect them to lack the financial power to compete within the modern era 1.Bundesliga.

    But the annoying reality about this is knowing neither of these clubs would be competing to be part of 1.Bundesliga right now, if the proposed plans of a new break away league were allowed to continue...:rolleyes:
     
    BIHfan repped this.
  3. BIHfan

    BIHfan Member+

    Borussia Dortmund
    Bosnia and Herzegovina
    Oct 13, 2020
    There is absolutely no need for a new breakaway league (for the "poor" or for the "rich", for that matter).
     
  4. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC

    ...:confused: @hotjam2 I told you they selected their team of the season with a clear intention of including as many clubs as possible lol.

    Their choice for #1 defender isn't even in their seasons best 11...:rolleyes:
     
  5. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    #2480 Batfink, Jun 6, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2024
    No, your right. A new break away league not meant to divide the rich or the poor, but instead provide a far more attractive product for potential wider investment.

    In it's current state, there's not enough reasons or incentive for clubs outside the top 3 to actively push for more professional teams, as there's absolutely no TV/Sponsorship money for them simply maintaining a short/long term presence not competing for titles in the nations top division either

    The general football fan hating a club like RB Leipzig, would never praise the fact their currently content on the prospect of losing a lot of money over many years to provide the nation with another legitimate professional environment for elite women.

    This season we might have seen... I'm thinking 8 fully professional teams in a promotion/relegation based league of 12. Where the worst club (MSV Duisburg) don't even want to participate in 2.Bundesliga, while the promoted teams might not even have the budget to play in 1.Bundesliga next season...:speechless:

    Making it obvious why clubs like BVB, Schalke, Borussia Mönchengladbach, Hertha Berlin, are interested, but so damn slow to really invest fully into their own women's teams. They all wanting to women's teams, but seeing the DFB run 2nd and 1st divisions as a complete mess lol.

    So looking at positives having a club like Essen, and seeing some of the less interesting artificial natures of rival women's leagues, I understand the romantic sentiment that still wants to keep an organic development of professionalism for German women's football.

    But damn... when a relegated team doesn't even want to continue life in a lower division, with both promoted clubs struggling to meet the criteria of participating in the nations top division... I think we've potentially reached a breaking point now...:cautious:
     
  6. Lohmann

    Lohmann Member+

    Arminia Bielefeld
    Germany
    Feb 24, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Today(2p.m) promotion matches first leg for 2.Bundesliga
    Mainz 05 vs VfL Bochum


    Union Berlin vs Henstedt-Ulzburg
     
    Lechus7 repped this.
  7. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Big crowd for Union Berlin, why can’t the Bundi 1st division get this type of large attendance?
     
  8. Lohmann

    Lohmann Member+

    Arminia Bielefeld
    Germany
    Feb 24, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Union Berlin - Henstedt-Ulzburg 8:0(4:0) Attendance:18045!:thumbsup:
    Metzker(17), Abu Sabbah(31p,46,54), Heiseler(39), Orschmann(43,66), Görsdorf(87)

    Mainz 05 - VfL Bochum 2:4(1:1)
    Meierfrankenfeld(6), Sigurdadottir(80) - Fölsing(29), Lange(62,67), Angerer(83)
     
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  9. BIHfan

    BIHfan Member+

    Borussia Dortmund
    Bosnia and Herzegovina
    Oct 13, 2020
    Because Union fans are quite unique, unlike any other fans I've seen. Also this game was more impactful than an Essen-Frankfurt game for instance.
     
    Batfink repped this.
  10. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    #2485 Batfink, Jun 9, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2024


    Krumbiegel...o_O:ROFLMAO: WILMS...:speechless:
    [​IMG]
     
  11. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    #2486 Batfink, Jun 9, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2024


    Tactically Naschenweng was meant to be one of the main sources of Bayern;s offensive width this season... but would only end with 3 goals, 4 assists, compared to a 2023/24 Simon's 2 goals, 12 assists...:whistling:

    And even when I look at tackles, passing, or anything related to factors to help justify her selection as the #1 LB this season, the fact remains her final season with Hoffenheim saw Naschenweng have a far greater impact on this league, than she ever did playing for Bayern this season...:unsure:
     
  12. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    #2487 Batfink, Jun 9, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2024


    LOL... the best two CM's this season, sure didn't look that way the moment they'd face credible competition...:confused:

    Oberdorf's first half of the season was woeful too, making her inclusion over Gräwe seem like a decision based on pure clout, more than actual critical analysis of performances throughout the whole season.

    So... with new additions being brought in to teams, next season the current top 3 German clubs will need to see MAJOR improvements to their CM performance levels during the UWCL...:cautious:

    As right now, the supposedly best CM duo in the league this season, also regularly finding themselves completely exposed during group stage matches their team would consistently fail to hold leads.
     
  13. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC


    Endemann, Alber, Purtscheller, were easily the top 3 right wingers this season. But I'm pretty sure Prasnikar spent the entire season playing as a FW...:confused:, with Wamser being a attacker who I felt had a rather underwhelming season too.

    Seriously... even with her limited time this season, there's still no way you can convince me SJJ didn't have a better season than Wamser, with Leipzig's Swiss international Andrade also being a right winger who'd surely do enough to be on this list ahead of someone like Wamser.

    Removing Prasnikar, looking at the most basic stats you have Andrade with 6 goals, 1 assist over 24 games this club season. Then I look at SJJ, and see her 13 clubs games producing 3 goals, 4 assists. While Wamser's 26 games resulted in 2 goals, 2 assists...o_O

    And honestly... if it wasn't Bender's first ever season as a pro, I'd argue her performance over 2nd half of the season also better than Wamser's full season efforts...:whistling:
     
  14. Lohmann

    Lohmann Member+

    Arminia Bielefeld
    Germany
    Feb 24, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
  15. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
  16. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Wolfsburg's defence and mid-field were both really poor last season, making the signing of Linder a very important upgrade to their team.

    However... I still don't think the addition one new international quality FB is enough for this club, as we've seen Wilms, Wedemeyer, Rabano, seriously underwhelm compared to the quality of previous FB Rauch...:cautious:

    Hoffenheim also stating Linder's intent to leave the club at end of this season, would decide to sell her early to collect a transfer fee. And with Linder making it clear she wanted to leave early in the season, it saw Lerch intelligently begin to integrate a very promising replacement LB (Kaut) into the clubs first team too.
     
  17. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC


    Pajor... the best left winger this season... Weidauer, and Kögel, top 5 left wingers this season...
    [​IMG]

    I know the nature of league right now, mean's it isn't filled with a lot of wingers. But at least put the few strong wingers like Bühl, Memeti, Elmazi, Brand, at the top of the list...:rolleyes:

    If your going to put Pajor in this team as the best in her role, it should be as the striker position, not left wing.
     
  18. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC

    Excuse me... Harder the leagues best AM this season....
    [​IMG]

    They admit Brand's selection here based on a heavy dose of positional semantics lol. But if we're placing Harder #1, it requires you ignore her actual position for Bayern this season, and the blatant fact Popp not playing as a #9 would also end the season with 6 more assists, and only two less goals...o_O

    If we're talking about the most offensively creative mid-fielders this season, you keep seeing Popp #1 as the most dominant factor in goal creating actions, followed by Bühl, Brand, Kögel, and Kowalski.

    With the other dominant AM I feel being ignored here being Fudalla, who blatantly at her best whenever deployed as a CAM this season, where she'd up scoring 10, assisting 4, making her one of the leagues most effective AM's too.

    I mean... the last time Harder in this league 2019/20, and deployed as a genuine CAM playing for Wolfsburg, she'd end up scoring 27 goals, with 7 assists lol...:speechless: But playing as a narrow wide forward with Bayern, she's being hailed the leagues best AM, while not even being as influential for her tittle wining club as Kowalski would be for 4th place Essen...:rolleyes:
     
  19. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Look at the amount of influence Kowalski had on Essen's season...
     
  20. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC


    Anyomi being named the #1 forward here, again another sign how bad the wnt's player analysis continues to be, as they never seem willing to acknowledge Anyomi's superior qualities as a CAM/FW if compared to someone like Freigang...:confused:

    But with all the Bayern love, I'm honestly shocked to see Damnjanovic not nominated in any attacking category...:speechless:, with Fudalla spending the entire 2nd half of the season playing as a CAM/2nd forward, while Popp wasn't even used as a traditional #9 this season either lol.

    Pajor, Anyomi, Schüller, Karczewska the four best #9's this season, it really makes you wonder where Frankfurt could have accomplished, if Freigang, and Prasnikar, both reproduced their impressive goal return of prior campaigns...:cautious:
     
  21. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    I noticed Brand top German in this category and loosing out to Harder is not too shabby! What position is this for?
     
  22. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    #2497 Batfink, Jun 13, 2024 at 1:09 PM
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2024 at 1:25 PM
    Like I said....
    They created a list of Attacking Mid-fielders, where Harder #1, and Brand #3, wouldn't even play in this specific role ALL SEASON...:confused:

    The site even stating, Brand wasn't a AM for Wolfsburg, but happened to move into this position during matches lol; completely ignoring how Brand doing this also resulted in her contributing significantly worst stats this season...:rolleyes:
     
  23. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    @hotjam2 The leagues most effective central AM's this season were Popp #1 (the most dominant factor in goal creating actions), with Bühl, Brand, Kögel, Kowalski, Huth. Dunst, all seeing impressive offensive related data for players floating between positions.

    Harder actually very close to Dallmann when it comes to data analysis for AM's this season...o_O.If we're simply looking at goals and assists as a CAM this season, Fudalla, Freigang, Kowalski, KLV, Damnjanovic would create a more reasonable top 5 ahead of names on the FF 90mins list.

    But clearly, the creator of the FF 90mins list decides to ignore where players actually positioned, and would instead decide to create their top 5 based around the semantics of what a AM is...:confused:
     
  24. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #2499 hotjam2, Jun 14, 2024 at 6:34 AM
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2024 at 6:48 AM
    if was Huth that played most at AM for Wolfsburg, but there was a lot of positional changes while, within an game itself. Popp came out looking more of a jack of all trades—would fill in as starter at various positions when someone was injured or just given rest & thus didn’t do quite as well in these rankings. I’ve wrote down the 1-2 top German players according to the these lists. But so far there’s none for either an extra CB or b2b(#8) spots

    BUHL………ANYOMI……..ENDEMANN
    Weidauer….Fudulla..,,…..,,,Abler

    ………………BRAND
    …………,.,,,,,Freigang

    …………….,,SENNS
    ………….,,,,,,Oberdorf

    LINDER…….ULBRECHT……GWINN
    Luhrssen……Meissner……….Krumbiegel

    ……………….WINKLER
    ………….,,,,,,,Mahumovic
     
  25. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    #2500 Batfink, Jun 14, 2024 at 9:16 AM
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2024 at 9:22 AM
    Which makes no sense, when FF 90mins POTY list see's it's creator actively select names they openly admit not meeting the criteria for the positional department they eventually placed.

    Popp part of the leagues best attack, was also the leagues most dominant creative force this season too; and accomplished this having to play in multiple positions that would have probably seen various rivals individual form decline into obscurity.

    But Popp's been resigned to 5th place in FF 90mins best forwards category, sat behind Karczewska, Schüller,, Fudalla, Anyomi...:confused: When one look at combined goals and assists, Popp only second to Pajor lol.

    I think it's intentionally meant to be unbalanced, to try and fit more attacking players into the best of the season list.

    But using data, this was still the best German 22 of the 2023/24 season. 1st choice
    Bühl
    /Brand -------------------------- Popp/Schüller ----------------------- Endemann/Alber
    --------------- Kowalski/Anyomi (AM) ------------------ Huth/Kögel (CM/AM) -------------------
    -------------------------------------------- Senß/Oberdorf (DM) --------------------------------------
    Lührßen/Gerhardt ---- Hendrich/Krug --- Hegering/Klasen ---- Gwinn/L.Ostermeier
    --------------------------------------------- Grohs/Winkler -------------------------------------------

    While doing this, something interesting that I noticed was seeing Kleinherne among the very best passers in the league, but nowhere to be found when it comes to defensive actions...:unsure:
     

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