First, I want to say I am an independent. I have voted Democrat in the past, I have voted Republican in the past. So while I haven't done a scientific survey, reading through many of the threads on the Politics board, there seems to be quite a interesesting dichotomy in the way Republicans are viewed by those who don't care for Republicans, versus the way Democrats are viewed by those who don't particularly care for them. There is a very forceful set of voices here who really believe that Republicans are malevolent, indeed evil. They fully expect George W. Bush, and other notable Republicans, any second to sprout horns, a pointed tail, nasty incisors and wield a pitchfork. Oh sure, it's rhetoric, but it seems to me the rhetoric of deep and hostile loathing. At the same time, I don't think I have read anyone here who has engaged in quite the kind of demonization when it comes to criticising Democrats. Oh, they might be called crass, or dumb, out of touch with the world, or devoid of ideas, things like that. But viewed as evil? I don't think so. Anyway, it's a dichotomy I find interesting.
Stick around, Karl, and you'll see some of the right wingers slinging a lot of crap at the liberals too.
and dawgpound2, and....oh geez, this is hilarious. Yes, Karl, you're the go to guy for reasoned, impartial, informed analysis.
I think Karl is right. From what I've seen (not just on Bigsoccer but other places), conservatives tend to view liberals as well-meaning but severely misguided, whereas liberals tend to view conservatives as downright evil. Alex
Right, "commie pinko" and "anti-American" are just terms of endearment. No, I get what you mean. But it's not because liberals are less accepting of opposition. Those are the stereotypes attributed to the two ends of the political spectrum because of each side's basic ideology; liberalism is associated with the disenfranchised and conservatism with the powerful. So it's natural that the left is seen as naive and often whiny, while the right is seen as cynical and exclusionary. So either you're childish or evil. Neither stereotype is flattering, but the left does come off as having the better intentions. But the liberal = well meaning/conservative = evil model can be reversed too. A leftist might excuse a right-winger saying "Oh, that's just the way he was raised" while "liberal" is often a euphemism for "weak of character", "deviant" or "aligned with Satan to steal from hard working folks and turn our kids into homosexuals." Trust me, the venom flows both ways, here at BigSoccer and elsewhere.
Yeah, that's funny. People come on and call republicans and christians (of which I am both) are evil beyond words. I come on and do some defending, and I'm evil. Lovely.
As I said in my first post, to disclaim, I haven't done a scientific survey. I just get the sense here that the anti-Republican faction on this board has a particular brand of loathing and hostility, and that it is perhaps more virulent than the anti-Democratic faction displays. Hey, prove me wrong, prove me right. Either way, I think it's an interesting proposition to discuss. And really, Dave, cut the sweeping and unfair generalizations. You're welcome to disagree with what I say, obviously. Hey, I'm not perfect, but just because you disagree with me, doesn't mean YOU should consider yourself a paragon of intellectual clarity. Meanwhile you can't dispute that (a) I try to construct arguments (b) I try to do so with some thought and organization behind them and (c) I try to do it in a lively way. So do you, most of the time. Let's keep it that way.
Many Liberals believe that if any intelligent person gave the issues some serious thought they would naturally come to have the same views as they have, many on the right probably feel the same way, but what makes many Liberals in particular so hard to take is their sense of moral superiority over those who come to different conclusions.
You could replace "liberal" with "conservative" and it would still be true. I think most liberals are like me - we see conservatives as old curmudgeons and dittoheads who don't know any better, just as most of the right see liberals as naive hippies-in-training. And don't tell me liberals have any kind of monopoly of moral elitism. There are plenty of conservatives who see liberals as acting out of intense hatred of all things American/white male.
Perhaps I should have been clearer but I was talking about perception, not my personal opinion. I didn't phrase this right. basic ideology and the power structure are two different issues. As far as basic ideology goes, liberal = social/political change and conservative = status quo. This, we can agree on? As it applies to American politics, liberals are associated with women, blacks and unions, generally the less powerful while conservatives are associated with the rich/big business and otherwise powerful people. So the liberal/conservative divide doesn't inherently translate to disenfrachised/powerful, but that's just the way it has played out in this country. That's not my opinion. That's just the conclusion I drew on the general peception based on my oversimplified model. I don't actually believe that liberals have better intentions. I was just trying to find an explanation on why it may appear that way. I hope that's clear.
But of course you think flag-burning should be considered a hate crime, so your view of reality is a little, shall we say, shifted from center.
I don't think we see Conservatives in the some way, rather than seeing them as people who believe in personal responsibility and small government, I think you see them as advocates for the powerful and big business, if that was simply the case there wouldn't be very many of them, I know you don't see too many poor Conservatives in NYC, but in a lot of the country they're thick on the ground.
Hate speech, not a hate crime--there's a difference. How is flag-burning any less offensive, any less hateful than using racial slurs? Alex
Is this a trick question? You're saying that burning a flag is exactly the same or worse as using a derogatory term for somebody's ethnicity?
Good point. I should know better since I spent many of my formative years in North Carolina. So my model isn't perfect, but it's not like I actually believe it.
In-group/Out-group images People associate in groups. The group you consider yourself with is the 'in-group,' the alternative group is the 'out-group'. People see all the good qualities of the in-group and associate those qualities with themselves because it strenghtens their self image. Conversely, they see all the bad qualities of the out group and believe those people are bad, and thus, in comparison, the ingroup is good. Dem and Rep are ingroup/outgroup imaging. Dems see the good in other dems and the bad in reps. Reps do the same. By the way, the matter on which groups form doesn't have to be significant. Substantial ingroup, outgroup views have been created by dividing people based on whether they overestimated or underestimated the number of dots on a screen. Ok people, that's enough for today, class dismissed.