And incorrect results reduces confidence in the system. Pineda had a higher passing completion rate than Guti or Oregel and also had three key passes to Brian’s four but in thirty fewer minutes. I would never say Pineda had a better game but for Pineda to be below a seven while Guti is nearly a ten is just brainless.
You may wish to recheck your stats. Transfermarkt says 15 goals and 23 assists. Your numbers do not seem correct. Or is that a joke?
From the Office Chicago Fire website https://www.chicagofirefc.com/players/brian-gutierrez/stats/ It does not seem correct to me (I would be surprised if he had so few assists), but that is where I received the data I posted. Just now, I went through the game by game on the Fire's website 2025: 1 2024: 3 2024: LEAGUES CUP®: 2 2023: 1 2023: LEAGUES CUP®: 0 2022: 0 2021: 0 2020: 0 5 MLS assists 2 LEAGUES CUP® assists
I beg to differ. per Transfermarkt- Justin Mapp, born 1984- through 2006= 13 goals +21 assists or 34 total - Brian Gutierrez. 15 goals + 23 assists or 38 total goal contributions I know which source I believe.
I meant the Brian Gutierrez assist numbers do not add up, since there is a vast difference between transfermarkt and the 'official' MLS site. According to his profile on MLS' site: In 2023, Gutiérrez led the team in assists (9) and was named Team MVP that season. Additionally, he was named to the BODYARMOR 22 Under 22 list for 2023. Since joining the Fire’s First Team, Gutiérrez has appeared in 104 matches (67 starts) and has recorded seven goals and 18 assists with Chicago. [prior to this season] https://www.mlssoccer.com/players/brian-gutierrez/ But the actual stats are completely different. It really seems like something is way off with the Fire's website.
Not sure where that comment came from. Numbers are very similar. Of course, they are different eras and Mapp was a winger while Gutierrez is (mostly) a center midfielder so comparisons are difficult, as usual.
As I said, I think Mapp started at 19 years old while Brian started at 16 years old. If it took Guti three years longer to get one extra goal contribution, I don’t think it’s something to celebrate. We should be comparing goal contributions per 90.
Ok let’s do it. Mapp -7836 minutes/34 goal con =230 minutes Gutierrez-8595 minutes/37 goal con = 232 minutes Seems similar to me. Especially considering all the differences- teammates, coaches, competition, positions, etc,etc. Some people might even expect a higher success ratio from a 19-22 year old than from the 16-18 years of Guti
Now THAT’S some analysis. I didn’t see any of the same numbers as you used so I don’t have high confidence in any of this but they’re probably close to each other in terms of production and Guti still has a month to go until he’s 22! Mapp also played in an era with 32 league games, not 34, meaning the per 90 as opposed to per age is even more important.
Guti’s 16 & 17yr old minutes were often ‘end of game’ give the kid some exposure…not sure those are ‘apples to apples’ I believe MLS counts ‘hockey assists’…
You probably already noticed that these numbers are derived from Transfermarkt, a generally accurate data source ( less so on value opinions, etc). Not the problem we were talking about. Reread the prior and follow-up postings.
Of course, but that was not the problem. The problem was that MLS has almost no stats for assists in 2022 and 2023 for the entire league, which is why the numbers I quoted were ridiculously inaccurate.
Some people might expect a higher success ratio from players coming out of modern, professional academies rather than patchwork ensemble of teams and leagues from 25 years ago.
I’m not sure what you mean by this but better to be compared to Mapp than Ritchie Kotschau. No offense to Ritchie.
Justin Mapp was never a 'big fish' at all. He was a decentish MLS player as a very young guy. He then "grew up" and became a bit lazy. Brian Gutierrez should be a far, far superior to Justin Mapp. He certainly has more potential than Mapp.