Brian Gutiérrez Career Nutrider/Deathwatch Thread

Discussion in 'Chicago Fire' started by bunge, Aug 31, 2024.

  1. He's not ready for a club like Roma yet.
     
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  2. schroncar

    schroncar Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Mar 2, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Especially interesting because I just saw the Fire supposedly offered $2 million euros for a U22 Polish left-footed CAM/ LW.
     
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  3. harrylee773

    harrylee773 Member+

    Jul 28, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would selfishly hate to see him go anywhere, but for him obviously a move to Europe is the way to go, just please not any Italian club except Palermo, tyvm.
     
  4. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    #155 xtomx, May 15, 2025
    Last edited: May 15, 2025
    Good article.

    "He burst onto the scene on opening day with a brace in Columbus..."
    and has not scored a "real" goal since, just padded his stats with a penalty. :eek::eek:

    We ALL know penalties don't count as much as field of play goals.;)

    Really, I have always liked Brian G and I hope he continues to develop as a player and he fulfills his considerable promise.

    However, he needs to up his game a lot. He needs to play better on a consistent basis, learn to control the game (it appeared he was learning that in the second half of last season) and keep his recklessness in check (i.e., mature a bit).

    Do that and he could be penciled in as a starter for the USMNT for a decade to come.

    If it takes a move to Europe to do so, he should go. Personally, I think he can be a "star" here, but it is pretty clear that few MLS players become fixtures for the USMNT.

    It would blow a hole in the Fire's offence, but we have the players and the resources to fix that hole.
     
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  5. Brian Gutiérrez (Chicago Fire, 21) vs MLS U24 Midfielders, per 90
    [​IMG]Through passes – 1st
    [​IMG]Goals + assists – 1st
    [​IMG]Non-penalty goals + assists – 1st
    [​IMG]xG + xA – 1st
    [​IMG]Goals – 1st
    [​IMG]Non-penalty goals – 1st
    [​IMG]Shots on target – 1st
    [​IMG]Progressive action rate – 1st

     
  6. schroncar

    schroncar Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Mar 2, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    MLS U24 does limit it somewhat but WOW! Would not have guessed he rated that high. It is easy to forget how young he is for a playmaker.
     
  7. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    #158 xtomx, May 16, 2025
    Last edited: May 16, 2025
    Here is an example where context not only matters, but is imperative.

    Is this for the current season?
    For his career?
    What is the sample size here?
    How many MLS U24 midfielders are starting for their respective MLS clubs?

    IF G & A being three is good enough for being in first place, that says more about the state of MLS U24 midfielders than it does about young Brian G.
    Also "non-penalty" goals being 2, even more so.

    Diego Luna has scored way more goals and way more assists than Brian Gutierrez. He is also younger and has played 40% fewer minutes.
    Jack McGlynn has fewer goals, more assists, but 1,000 fewer minutes played.

    Luna: 20 goals, 14 assists 4744 minutes played
    McGlynn: 8 goals, 11 assists, 6635 minutes played
    Gutierrez: 13 goals, 4 assists, 7681 minutes played

    If it is for the season, Luna has 7 goals and 2 assists in 1013 minutes. A "goal contribution" every 112.55 minutes.
    Brian G has 3 goals, 0 assists in 645. A "goal contribution" every 215 minutes.

    For their career, it is not even close.
    Luna: A "goal contribution" every 139.5 minutes.
    Brian G: A "goal contribution" every 451.82 minutes.
    McGlynn: A "goal contribution" every 349.21 minutes.
     
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  8. schroncar

    schroncar Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Mar 2, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thoughtful comments-makes me wish I thought more before commenting.
    It is just all those no.1s-not used to seeing them for Fire players.
     
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  9. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    I agree.
    If this is all true, I would like to see the criteria used and the facts to substantiate these comments.
    I mean, sure "wide scout" must be the most trustworthy source in the world (see my next post), but let's see some evidence.


    As I have said consistently for about 2 1/2 years now,
    I like Brian Gutierrez as a player.
    He is clearly a talented attacking player and has skills that few young American players have.
    I want him to succeed.
    I think he can and will succeed.

    The thing is, while he shows flashes of that talent, he is not "there" yet.

    He and Jude Bellingham are exactly the same age (well, Bellingham is 12 days younger) and the way people speak of Brian G sometimes it sounds like they are talking about Bellingham.
     
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  10. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Oh, there is this from the same source:



    May 7th

    | Mihailo Ivanović (Millwall, 20)
    vs Championship U22 Strikers, per 90
    Goals – 1st
    Non-penalty goals – 1st
    Goals/100 touches – 1st
    Shots on target % – 1st
    Goal conversion % – 1st
    Headed goals – 1st
    Duels won – 1st
    Interceptions – 1st
    Aerial duels won – 1st



    It seems as if this entire X-crement poster is about these unsubstantiated comparisons.
     
  11. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
    You can see a little of this confusion on FBRef. Brian shows up as amazing against midfielders, but somewhat middle of the road when compared to “ATT Mid/Wingers”.

    If we rate him as an attacking presence he should be compared to attackers. I’m not sure who w/scout is comparing him to though.
     
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  12. Those rankings appear suspicious. This guy writes for the same site as Adnan Basic does .
     
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  13. overlap_old_coach

    Chicago Fire
    United States
    May 2, 2022
    "By what measure"...in this moment it doesn't really matter...as Guti has clearly not 'yet' reached the potential we all see.

    The prior environments were not particularly helpful for his development, this year has had a couple of 'interruptions', GGG is aiming him at a new role ('box to box' instead of winger/AM), and he's change a lot physically in the last 6mo.

    Much to grow into! Although not as meteoric as we'd all like, I remain very 'bullish' on his trajectory. This will be a great year for him!
     
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  14. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    #165 xtomx, May 16, 2025
    Last edited: May 16, 2025
    Of course it matters.
    If someone is going to claim he is "No. 1" in those various categories, the criteria for determining that would be important. If not, the designations are meaningless.

    I would like to think this is going to be a great year for him, but that remains to be seen.
     
  15. overlap_old_coach

    Chicago Fire
    United States
    May 2, 2022
    My post must not have been clear…the designations are meaningless because:
    A) we don’t have agreement on what his role is
    B) we don’t have agreement on what criteria that role should be evaluated
    C) we don’t have agreement on who his peers are

    It’s nice someone thinks he rates number 1, but (as I said before) in this moment it doesn't really matter what the measure was.
     
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  16. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Yep, we can agree on all of that.
     
  17. Pennsylvania Dave

    Jul 31, 2012
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    The answer to all of this is: A) YOUR MOM B)BY YOUR MOM. C)YOUR MOM
    [​IMG]
     
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  18. overlap_old_coach

    Chicago Fire
    United States
    May 2, 2022
  19. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
  20. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Did he pull a Clint Mathis and score 5?
    No?
    1 amazing miss
    1 "real" goal
    1 penalty
    9.8 is too high
     
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  21. overlap_old_coach

    Chicago Fire
    United States
    May 2, 2022
    [QUOTE="xtomx, post: 42981292, member: 17201"]Did he pull a Clint Mathis and score 5?
    No?
    1 amazing miss
    1 "real" goal
    1 penalty
    9.8 is too high[/QUOTE]

    Despite not being ‘perfect’, the measure is a new high bar…and it should be paired with MOTM…no?
     
  22. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    No

    He should be man of the match, but at 9.8 is insane.
     
  23. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
    When I first glanced at it I thought it was 8.8 and I was rolling my eyes. :laugh:

    9.8 is just stupid.
     
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  24. schroncar

    schroncar Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Mar 2, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I also thought 8.0 for Gutman was considerably too high.
     

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