Bretos does La Liga....

Discussion in 'TV, Satellite & Radio' started by Cantona, Sep 16, 2002.

  1. Tejas

    Tejas Member+

    Jun 3, 2000
    Tejas
    Bravo Max. Keep it up FSW. Happen to like the job Allen Hopkins does as well.
     
  2. Cantona

    Cantona Member

    Jul 12, 1999
    Texas/Luton/Manc
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    i quizzed about 30 or so of our regulars who
    religiously play soccer and watch it down our
    local drinking hole....

    The majority could not stand Bretos...but would
    tolerate him because of the other possible
    announcers...

    the only ones that liked Bretos were about 4
    college age kids... who library of football
    commentators was limited to Jack and Ty...

    and before someone says they are all expats from
    the uk... only 2 were... most of them were of
    hispanic origin ...

    so i dont think the the response of all the pro max
    posts are anywhere near reflective of the actual
    viewership... moreso of the 18-25yr old college age
    kiddos who think the mls is the best league in the
    world...


    Cantona---
     
  3. odg78

    odg78 Member

    Feb 14, 2001
    North Carolina
    I don't have anything to say I just wanted to complain.
     
  4. jjayg

    jjayg New Member

    May 9, 2002
    Rolling Ghettos, IL
    I am 32 years old and have been following soccer mostof my life and I like Max. I think he is a fan of the game and understands it very well. He seems very knowledgable to me concerning the players and the teams.

    It's a free world, everybody is entitled to their opinion.

    Cantona can think Max is an idiot and that's his right.

    The rest of us can like Max and think Cantona is an idiot and that's fine too.

    I'm thrilled to finally have La Liga regularly on FSW.
     
  5. Elwood

    Elwood New Member

    Mar 20, 2001
    Indianapolis
    Max Bretos is the best FSW 'dub' announcer there is.

    That's really sad.

    He ruined many a Serie A match for me season before last, when I stopped listening to him.

    Of course now I have digital cable (via Comcast) instead of satellite (via DirecTV) due to some other life factors, so my FSW is of the Spanish variety. I don't speak but about 10 words of Spanish, and I can say that I enjoy my FSW a whole lot more now than when I had to listen to Bretos and Miles call games. Neither are bad guys, but neither should be calling soccer for money.

    I was always torn between who was worse, Bretos or Edwards. I think I decided on Edwards, simply because he was on ESPN, so more people heard him. But I found it a whole lot easier to listen to Edwards.

    I can say that I enjoy a Peruvian match commented in Spanish a whole lot more than Serie A matches commented by Bretos, regardless of the quality of play. There's something to be said for atmosphere, which doesn't usually need to be created in soccer matches. The crowd does that well enough, especially in larger leagues. Bretos (and Edwards) have a habit of drowning out that atmosphere with their overexuberance and, in Bretos' case, the attempt to pronounce EVERY SINGLE NAME as if he were a native of whichever country the player is from.
     
  6. Cantona

    Cantona Member

    Jul 12, 1999
    Texas/Luton/Manc
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    agreed...

    american announcers seem to try too hard to
    create an atmosphere ... when in actuallity
    it is there... enough of your screaming...

    the best call in football
    spanish or english...

    one nil........

    bretos attempts at placating to his psuedo
    audience...
    argentinian.... the goool call..
    italian cup..... over the top pronounciations
    uefa cup....... all of the above..
    french.......... gallic accent..

    its sounds good for the college kids here with the
    computer that are responding... but fox is really
    losing it.. when they could be gaining..

    personally.... i think max knows football... i just
    think he should be the halftime show... NOT the
    play-by-play....

    Sky Sports has La Liga... do the right thing...
    use their feed....

    Cantona---
     
  7. Soccerholic

    Soccerholic New Member

    Mar 6, 2001
    Mile High
    Agreed.
     
  8. Soccerholic

    Soccerholic New Member

    Mar 6, 2001
    Mile High
    Is their feed in English or Spanish?
     
  9. anderson

    anderson Member+

    Feb 28, 2002
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I did just that today. Came home and found that the channel on my cable system that normally carries FSW was instead carrying ABC Family. Terrifying. And showing a 7th Heaven marathon - even more terrifying. No FSW anywhere. The cable company apparently just screwed up for a bit when they were figuring out how to add the Food Network to their lineup. Anyway, FSW is now back on, but lemme tell ya man, those were some frightening moments there. I had flashbacks to the dark ages when we had only SIN and Soccer Made in Germany.



    I also like Max and Allen well enough. They're obviously young and still learning their craft, but they've been improving over the last couple years.

    I'm also surprised that people dislike Max's efforts to pronounce players' names correctly. He may not always get it right, but I like the effort.

    Allen also tries hard with the Brazilian Portuguese pronunciations. I grew up speaking Brazilian Portuguese at home and it was really painful to hear some of the Brit commentators on the English-language feed for the Brazilian games. FSW used those audio feeds until a couple years ago when Allen started doing the games.
     
  10. BazoDee!

    BazoDee! New Member

    Mar 11, 2002
    B'klyn
    Lionel, where for art thou?

    I used to watch Fox Sports NY's EPL highlights show a couple years back with Lionel Bienvenue and he did a better job than Bray-tos, IMHO. When Max joined the crew and they were commentating, Lionel just stole the show. He was fluid, charismatic, and very knowledgeable (not to mention authoritative, since he actually played football somewhere in England). Max was the exact antithesis. Sitting next to Lionel, he looked and sounded so stiff. He reminds me of the old guy from "Murphy Brown" (Jim, I believe.)

    Wherever he is (I heard that he's somewhere in the Mid-West), Bring back Bienvenue!
     
  11. BazoDee!

    BazoDee! New Member

    Mar 11, 2002
    B'klyn
    Oh yeah......

    Christian Bozzo is alright by me. I'd rather have him do it alone.
     
  12. Dees Nuts

    Dees Nuts New Member

    Sep 10, 2002
    New Iberia
    how many leagues does bretos play-by-play for? 4 or five? he does a good job, consodering how many players and leagues he has to keep up with.
     
  13. Dees Nuts

    Dees Nuts New Member

    Sep 10, 2002
    New Iberia
    i question the sophistication of any fan who let's their la liga viewing be ruined by an announcer. you a two-year-old waiting for somebody to read "dick and jane" out loud, or you a soccer fan, man?
     
  14. Northside Rovers

    Jan 28, 2000
    Austin TX
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, where does he get off trying to pronounce player names correctly. The nerve! The arrogance!
     
  15. Cantona

    Cantona Member

    Jul 12, 1999
    Texas/Luton/Manc
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    *************

    i question the sophistication of any fan who let's their la liga viewing be ruined by an announcer. you a two-year-old waiting for somebody to read "dick and jane" out loud, or you a soccer fan, man?

    *************

    yes "dude"

    my college kid analysis seems vindicated.


    Cantona---
     
  16. Trojan

    Trojan New Member

    Sep 20, 2000
    This is purely a matter of taste. I can't believe people think there's a right answer.
     
  17. monop_poly

    monop_poly Member

    May 17, 2002
    Chicago
    Exactly - that has to be the zenith (nadir??) of announcer criticisms. Let's look at the whole deal here: look at the ads during an FSW broadcast. I can't imagine how the network makes any money (probably doesn't). Obviously, they have to skimp on the announcing, so we are given a Max overdose. But he knows his stuff and, praise heaven, doesn't try to Americanize the game. He's actually very good doing Argentine league with CB.
     
  18. cpwilson80

    cpwilson80 Member+

    Mar 20, 2001
    Boston
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Let's chill on the college kid, 18-25 year old stereotypes here. We make up a significant part of the fanbase today and represent the livelihood of MLS' future. Contrary to the statement that we think MLS is the greatest league in the world: I see far more kids wearing jerseys from any other nation or league aside from the US and MLS. A fair amount, such as myself, were probably watching other leagues before MLS existed.

    I just watched Roma-Real Madrid with Mike Hill announcing. He is my personal favorite, but I like Max Bretos too. Perhaps something more representitive of my generation is that we appreciate sincerity and lack the patience for imposters (probably developed from every advertiser trying to promote an "extreme" image with their product.)

    Bretos always brings enthusiasm, loves the game, and picks up on the flow of the game well. If he doesn't get every call right, I can cut him some slack - the guy calls a ridiculous amount of games from leagues all over the world. I too appreciate the effort of pronouncing the players names correctly instead of Americanizing everything.

    Mike Hill may be the antithesis of Bretos concerning style, but he comes off just as well. He is understated and allows the viewer to feel the atmosphere at the game. Another great thing about Hill is that regardless of the color guy, the telecast is at least solid.

    I don't think there is a perfect play by play guy for all people. If the person in the booth is able to convey the importance of the game and bring what bit of the live experience into your home they can, it is a job well done.
     
  19. TEConnor

    TEConnor New Member

    Feb 22, 1999
    I agree with the statement that this is completely a matter of taste...

    But I want to relate an experience that I think we would all prefer:

    Back in 1996 I had just purchased a DISH for Prime Deportiva, RAI, and the ESPNs. The first Sunday I had it installed, I flipped on RAI for what I hoped would be some good Italian soccer. What I got was the treat of a lifetime: a direct feed from the Guisseppe Maeza stadium with no graphics and no announcing. THIS WAS HEAVEN. You have no idea how much any announcer takes away from the atmosphere of the game (even the best ones, like the great RAI dude) until you watch and live a match like that. It was broadcast from San Siro, a decent match on the field, but watching with my new audio and video setup was like being there. It never happened again, but I'll never forget that day. What a treat...even the announcements sounded like they were in my living room.

    Someday, if I'm a billionaire like Uncle Phil, I'll start up a channel for myself that has broadcasts just like that, only in widescreen. We may not last long as a business, but I will love it for that short moment.

    Tim
     
  20. Elwood

    Elwood New Member

    Mar 20, 2001
    Indianapolis
    For me (and I only speak for me), I've always found it pretty odd sounding to hear any American attempt to pronounce a Spanish (or any other language) word the way a native would, especially considering that every other word spoken was with an 'English' accent. Just ruins the flow of the wording.

    The best example of this was, either late 80's or early 90's, when I started noticing newscasters would pronounce names of Central and South American countries as a Spanish-speaker would say. I think a comedian even had a small bit about it. Nicaragua. Just seeing a newscaster read off 3 or so sentences, with every word pronounced as an American English speaker would (as that's what the casters were), except for that one word, where they attempt to roll the 'R' as is done in Spanish. Always makes me completely ignore what they actually said, and focus on how odd that one word sounds compared to the rest.

    Also funny how Americans with Spanish names generally don't get that exact same treatment from Max. It was a US Open Cup match that Max did, last season I think, where he called the Fire vs someone. Diego Gutierrez's name was pronounced exactly like your average American would pronounce it. And knowing Bretos, if he were playing for a Serie A team and not American (I'm 99% sure Diego is American, but not 100%), Bretos would have attempted proper pronunciation.

    While I applaud the effort, it's painful to hear. It doesn't flow well. Spanish announcers can get away with it, as well as those with Spanish accents. People with English accents just sound like they're trying too hard.

    Not my main problem with Bretos, but the nitpicky one that drove me over the edge, and caused me to mute the volume when he called a match. Like someone else said, he knows the game, and clearly enjoys the job, but just shouldn't be calling matches, at least IMO.
     
  21. Elwood

    Elwood New Member

    Mar 20, 2001
    Indianapolis
    If I remember correctly, ABC (or ESPN) lost the announcing feed of a World Cup match this summer, but the crowd was still there. It was awesome, and I enjoyed it tremendously for the brief time I just watched the match. If it wasn't the World Cup, it was at least an MLS or US Nat match, as Jack and Ty were commentating.

    I don't really think of it in terms of 'Americanizing' so much as having a pleasant sound and flow. When one word out of 15-30 is pronounced completely different than all the rest, it just is distracting.

    I like hearing the British announcers pronounce the very same names like a Brit would.

    But I do agree how announcers sometimes ruin a telecast just by announcing. With only FSWE, and not speaking Spanish, I was initially very surprised how much I enjoyed matches called in Spanish. I understand the game, and don't really need someone telling me what I can see. Of course this wouldn't work for non-fans (or pre-converts), but for me, the game and the crowd is enough. Announcers just don't help all that much. And many times just talk to fill space that doesn't need to be filled.
     
  22. anderson

    anderson Member+

    Feb 28, 2002
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Elwood, very fair points.

    I don’t use the accurate pronunciation of my Portuguese surname in daily life because it includes a phoneme (ão) that just doesn’t exist in English. I also deliberately mispronounce certain Portuguese (and often Spanish) place and personal names so that people can more easily recognize what I’m talking about. I’ve just found it easier to be understood if people don’t have to stop to figure out what you just said, so I get what you're saying. ;)

    But I think when you’re calling a soccer game, it’s a good idea to attempt to pronounce the names of players, clubs, and towns correctly. If you don’t understand the language, then the name is going to sound somewhat odd to you regardless of whether it’s pronounced correctly, isn’t it? But if you happen to understand the language, it can be amazingly distracting to hear a Brit announcer completely massacre the pronunciations. Why not at least see if the announcer can get it close for the folks who understand the language?

    If the announcer just can’t pull it off and his efforts themselves become distracting, then that’s a different story. But I think that Max and Allen generally do a very good job with the Brazilian and Spanish names.

    Max is Cuban, IIRC, which may explain why some of his Spanish pronunciation may sound a little off to someone accustomed to a different Spanish accent.
     
  23. sixer1

    sixer1 New Member

    Oct 25, 2000
    Philadelphia
    on the point of why didn't fsw use sky sports for that la liga match, well one reason is that sky sports in england didn't show that match, they carried the atletico madrid match. I don't really know where they got the feed from most likely from spain's ppv
    sky sports does have their own announcers for the la liga because i remember they did a feature on the 10 best goals of the season and on a raul goal the announcer said "wow-wie" in an thick english accent
     
  24. Trojan

    Trojan New Member

    Sep 20, 2000
    Max should definitely stop trying to pronounce the names of players and teams in the native language.

    I want to hear "Reel" Madrid and A-jax (hard "j," like the cleaning supply). Until then, I will boycott all things soccer.
     
  25. Alberto

    Alberto Member+

    Feb 28, 2000
    Northern, New Jersey
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What happen to Toby Charles? He did a couple of Bundesliga broadcasts, and then Hopkins or Miles took over. No fair.
     

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