Brenden Aaronson

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by OWN(yewu)ED, Mar 28, 2021.

  1. russ

    russ Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Canton,NY
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I want them all healthy and in form.There are 5 subs and three games in eight days,and hopefully another after that.We need them ALL.
     
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  2. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Shouldn't be a problem.
    These guys deal with that type of competition every day at the their clubs.
    They'll all play.

    Lets just hope they're all healthy, and we have this type of issue in Qatar. Almost all of these guys have had repeated injury problems. Certainly Reyna, Pulisic, Weah, etc. Aaronson has been the most healthy, but even he missed our last WCQing window.

    We've been missing most of those wingers at times, which is how a player like Arriola has started key WCQers.
     
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  3. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  4. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That clip seems to show the first decent view of his goal that wasn't awarded to him. It sure looks like it came off the defender first and then firmly off Aaronson's instep.
     
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  5. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Was one of the better clips but it’s still so bang bang it’s a tough call. I think it should have been his tho. Tie goes to the offensive player.
     
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  6. FTGOTC

    FTGOTC Member

    Feb 21, 2021
    1556591098566516739 is not a valid tweet id


    One of the bigger oddities to me of the general evaluation of our USMNT player pool is the idea that putting Aaronson in the midfield (often instead of Musah) is going to significantly reduce its defensive effectiveness—even though Aaronson’s on-ball pressing is truly elite.

    He doesn’t have the exact same skill set as Musah, but it’s hard for me to see him as limited in comparison.
     
  7. JUnionFan

    JUnionFan Member+

    Philadelphia Union
    United States
    Sep 30, 2020
    I agree, I was waiting for someone to bring this up. I think Aarsonson is actually better at defense than people think, for some reason people are sleeping on this fact. Unfortunately I think it's a case of "well Musah looks bigger and stronger so clearly he would be better at defense!"

    I came across two write ups that support this:

    https://halfspaces.com/halfspaces-player-grades-usmnt-vs-morocco/ (mentions Musahs defensive lapses near the bottom)

    https://chasingacup.com/the-perils-of-ball-watching-musah-vs-aaronson/ ( a comprehensive write up on the June window which looks at defense)

    The bottom line is against WC teams in June Aaronson 2/4 in Tackles and 9/13 in ground duels against Morocco. And 2/4 and 8/9 against Uruguay.

    Musah was 1/2 and 3/10 and then 0/1 4/8.

    The June window gave us ample evidence towards this but most people seem to not have noticed. Again, I don't know why, but I definitely feel like people continuously sleep on Aaronson versus anyone else in the pool.
     
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  8. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    #208 gogorath, Aug 9, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2022
    If all there was to defense was pressing, I'd agree.

    But defensive shape is far more important to defense than individual ability. Great one on one defenders are good, but maintaining a cohesive and compact defensive shape is far more important.

    The issue with Aaronson to date is that he's somewhat of a wrecking ball on defensive shape for us when he plays center mid. He loves to play super high, right off the shoulder of the front line. You can see it in the passing map for the Morocco game -- his average position is ahead of both Ferreira and Weah, whose side he is on! We really played in that game with four attackers and a two man midfield in a lot of ways.

    In that same game, Morocco kept finding massive space behind Aaronson on our right/ their left to counter-attack. It was largely because there was no CM between the RCB and Weah ... because Aaronson was basically a step in front of Weah! If Weston McKennie is over there playing his normal game, he's shutting that down.

    This was our shape:

    Pulisic----------------------------------------
    ---------------------Aaronson AND Weah
    ---------------Ferreira------------------------
    -------------------------------------------------
    -------Musah---------------------------------
    -----------------Adams-----------------------

    You can kind of see where the hole is.

    Can Aaronson play further back? Maybe, but Brenden pretty much plays like Brenden everywhere he is. This is how he played in Philly, how he played in Salzburg, how he plays in Leeds. It's clearly his comfort zone and how he's effective. But it is entirely possible he can play further back without losing as much as he gains. We just haven't ever seen it, and I think it's possible he simply can't / won't from an instinctual standpoint.

    Can we compensate with other movement? Maybe, but it's a big hole, and if you move others ... there's consequences. The obvious one is to slide back to a 4231ish shape with Brenden at the tip. That at least gets rid of the left/right assymmetry (sp?). But with how high Aaronson pushes, it can create a gap in the lines, period, which would require a very, very high line to get compact. Possible, but there's cascades.

    Is the trade-off overall worth it of offense for defense? Maybe -- up to you. It was worth it in the Morocco game, but we've ended up in low scoring ties in both tries against El Salvador. But my point isn't this is a bad idea, it's that part of the reason why it is generating more offense is the reason there were gaps in defense.

    I also think Musah's size and strength gives him an edge in certain situations deeper in our territory whereas Aaronson is built for specifically pressing. But that's less of my concern here.

    Aaronson's great, and there's clearly advantages to playing him in the midfield. But my defensive concerns here have little to do with Aaronson and a lot to do with moving a midfielder forward 20-30 yards at minimum and even further at times in terms of positioning. It's just trade-offs, but there is a trade-off.

    Lastly, I just think there's a big difference between asking someone to play more or less like Musah but simply have end product, and asking someone to play like an attacking mid. I'm not sure either Reyna or Aaronson can have the discipline to the former (Reyna might though he plays super high as a Dortmund 8 as well). Going to the latter version isn't bad; it just has these shape effects.
     
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  9. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I will say that if you are trying to make Aaronson work in this guise as a CAM, part of what Berhalter was trying to do against Morocco was exchanging Aaronson for the attacking RB as well.

    I think he wanted the back line to crash foward, and so the RCB (which was Cannon listed as RB in the 433) was supposed to help that space while Aaronson played attack help with Weah.

    Really, that requires Adams sliding right and working even with Musah, which didn't happen much, but you'd have it more like a

    Jedi-CP-Jesus-Aaronson-Weah
    ----------Musah-----Adams--------
    -----Richards----Zim-----Cannon---

    Type of thing. But I also think we slanted left to stop Hakimi, and Cannon wasn't great, and the whole back line wasn't comfortably slamming as high up so we gave up space.
     
  10. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    The commentary has little to do with individual effort and lot to do with shape.

    So much of fan analysis focuses just on individuals and plopping them into a formation that doesn't actually reflect the play.

    When we played Morocco, we didn't play a 433 as anyone would write it. We played a something closer to a lopsided 334.

    No one disputes Aaronson's work rate and pressing abilities.
     
  11. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    #211 Clint Eastwood, Aug 9, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2022
    Yup.

    People should watch Musah when the La Liga season starts.
    [Do you need to say the La Liga season? That's redundant. Probably not.]
    He's been starting for Valencia in preseason, and he's an absolute beast.
    I will not be surprised if he's at a bigger club in Europe after this season.

    Worth noting that Musah is more than 2 years younger than Aaronson.

    What we should hope for is that all of these guys are impressing on a weekly basis, and we all go around in circles regarding who to start. That's OK. That's fine. For me personally...........................I'm starting Aaronson over Pulisic on the left wing right now. But of course Pulisic could score a hat trick next weekend, and then I'll switch back to him.
     
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  12. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Only the hoi polloi say the la liga.
     
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  13. Bajoro

    Bajoro Member+

    Sep 10, 2000
    The Inland Empire
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's in the interest of both players for it to be an Aaronson goal.
    Can Prince Charles or Megan Markel make the change?
     
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  14. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    It's odd that Aaronson is compared to Musah. Aaronson's defense pays off high on the pitch. Look at Leeds' first goal on Saturday v. wolves. It is Aaronson's defense in the box that keeps that play going. Aaronson's defensive intervention starts at 10 second mark of the clip. Why would you make that guy an 8? Makes no sense.
     
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  15. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is there a duffel bag full of cash involved?
     
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  16. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    Honestly, while I understand why here everyone was much more interested in Aaronson, but I thought Rodrigo had an excellent game as well. I think MOTM would be a close call between them. Not just the goal, but Rodrigo had a few other incisive plays and a couple nice passes that could have led to more. Meslier was very good as well.
     
  17. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Said nobody in the USA Men forum. :coffee:

    Sorry, couldn't help it. :p:)
     
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  18. FTGOTC

    FTGOTC Member

    Feb 21, 2021
    Probably should be getting a bump after this weekend. The man’s stock has never been higher.
     
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  19. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Gotta love US Soccer Twitter, just yesterday I was told by someone that the Philadelphia Union had less to do with Aaronson's development into the player he is today than either of the Euro clubs he's played for, meaning RB Salzburg where he spent a year and a half, and Leeds where he's played three games.
     
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  20. The Clientele

    The Clientele Member+

    Portland Timbers
    Jun 25, 2005
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh brother… Look, the level in Europe is higher. We all know that. But to ignore the real and genuine development that occurred in the states is just silly. He’s turned it up the notch, but the foundation of his play was based on his work, effort and time in the USA.
     
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  21. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    At this point in life I know that most of these guys in twitter just want to shout FU at their society really, really loud. It doesn't matter how many foreign players, coaches and executives are in the league (a lot). MLS is a stand in for some sector American society and very useful to hate.
     
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  22. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    Watching Brits process last weekend’s Leeds result has been interesting. One or two characterized MLS as “still a retirement league for aging stars,” which is a description that hasn’t fit for a while. I guess the periodic Gareth Bale-type of move perpetuates it. Or maybe it’s just the prominence of LAFC. But I do think that result shook the cages of the English commentariat. They may sense the wave of talent following the current generation, and the realization that they will have to accept Americans as a regular feature of many EPL teams.
     
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  23. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    The chimp on these boards promoted Aaronson from gnat to bee after his recent outing and I listened to an English podcast that classified him in the badger family just yesterday.

    With Aaronson moving up the taxonomy ladder at record speed, I expect he will soon be called "the Medford Messi".
     
  24. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Did they also mention his dad? I'd put it in this order

    1. Dad
    2. Salzburg
    3. Philly
    4. Leeds
     
  25. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Rusty Aaronson. College player at Monmouth. Semi pro for a while. Head coach for a youth team - Real Jersey FC U17 girls. Huh, Mike Petke is the technical director. So that's where he ended up after that RSL stint.
     
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