Breaking Hag - The Erik ten Hag Thread

Discussion in 'Manchester United' started by Sofabloke, Apr 21, 2022.

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  1. Ruud v.Nistelrooy 10

    Staff Member

    Jamaica
    Jun 4, 2006
    Antilla
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Jamaica
    not odd at all.

    he's a cup specialist, won the league recently and made a CL final all while making his team more than the sum of its parts., not less.

    what's odd about that
     
  2. JamesA

    JamesA Member+

    Dec 7, 2004
    Victoria
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Timing and why he'd join us?
     
  3. Ruud v.Nistelrooy 10

    Staff Member

    Jamaica
    Jun 4, 2006
    Antilla
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Jamaica
    oh, well the timing isn't odd. ten Hag is teetering on the brink or at least it seems that way.

    i agree he won't leave - he's still a king in Milano. outside of losing faith in a very old squad and leaving before the performance plummets
     
  4. JamesA

    JamesA Member+

    Dec 7, 2004
    Victoria
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    This is the part I find odd about the timing.

    Unless I missed it, I don't remember his name really being linked at all in the summer, when we clearly were looking. If we did speak to him, we kept it awfully quiet.

    Yet now he's suddenly come to the front of the line. So what change?

    Either this rumours are total BS (possible)

    Or, he's been near our number 1 choice to replace eth all along, we just weren't ready to make that change (hence just extending EtH).
     
  5. Ruud v.Nistelrooy 10

    Staff Member

    Jamaica
    Jun 4, 2006
    Antilla
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Jamaica
    maybe they cast a wider net?

    quite frankly the coaches they approached were a very limited bunch and very much touted.

    as i've maintained there are plenty of good coaches out there. if anyone can get past the usual "weak league" bias and all that nonsense.

    the Potter/Southgate/Tuchel thing was such a limited view. you'd hope INEOS was smarter than that
     
  6. JC7rox

    JC7rox Member+

    Manchester United FC, LAFC
    Jun 11, 2004
    West Coast, Cali!
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I was reading somewhere that they still hope to land Southgate and he is their top target.

    I guess I was hopeful that Ruud was brought in as the eventual replacement. I guess I still hope he gets that opportunity.
     
  7. Anonymous_United

    Manchester United
    Brazil
    Jul 13, 2018
    Like I said in Porto match thread, next game he is gone. I thought Nov seemed fair but it's still same echoes of last season. I have given up as well.
     
  8. Sofabloke

    Sofabloke Member+

    Dec 24, 2003
    Mu
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Spot on analysis again but then exactly the same issues again.

    This 4-2-4 system out of possession when we seemingly allow our wingers to neither press properly or track full-backs is just crazy. Hard to know how much is players like Rashford showing zero intensity and how much is poor instruction and tactics.

    Interesting to note that a lot of 'pundits' saying Eth crazy to take off Rashford given his good offensive work when it is clear why he did (ie awful defensive work) despite EtH saying it was just rotation. Wish that EtH would start naming and shaming some of these players like Rangnick did (though ultimately we know where this ends up).

    Would say we saw the same poor defensive intensity from our wingers under Ole and Rangnick too. So probably both. However we can't change Rashford, Amad, Antony and Garnacho.

    So back to being back between a rock and a hard place. Sack the manager and someone else (pretty much any "pragmatic" manager ie a Southgate / Potter or an Allegri etc.) will make us more defensively solid eg by putting us in a mid-block and adding an extra CM.

    However that is ultimately only mid-table football as we all know that City, Arsenal, Liverpool have hard-working dynamic wing-forwards and mids that allow them to press high (which over a season stops teams from parking the bus and gets you enough wins for the big boy places).

    We need a manager that can make a high-press work by somehow convincing and motivating these players to work hard. Three managers have failed at getting them to do this (especially Rashford). So not sure such a manager exists .... :(

     
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  9. Father Ted

    Father Ted BigSoccer Supporter

    Manchester United, Galway United, New York Red Bulls
    Nov 2, 2001
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    Except those players are mostly ETH players now e.g. Zirkzee, Amad, Garnacho, Antony, Hojlund, Mount. True about the likes of Rashford & Bruno etc. I just think ETH is tactically inept and what he is trying isn't working and there are no signs of improvement.
     
  10. Ruud v.Nistelrooy 10

    Staff Member

    Jamaica
    Jun 4, 2006
    Antilla
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Jamaica
    not trying to absolve ten Hag at all, but i do wonder if the recent comments about lack of effort have any bit of truth to them.

    INEOS have left him as a lame duck by not offering a new deal and very publicly courting other managers, even if on purpose to try force him out. big gaffe on their part either way.

    in the second half against Porto aside from Garnacho i saw no urgency whatsoever
     
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  11. Sofabloke

    Sofabloke Member+

    Dec 24, 2003
    Mu
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    #986 Sofabloke, Oct 4, 2024
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2024
    For sure there are questions over tactics.

    However _any_ high-press relies on workrate and it all falls apart when players doing the pressing do not block passing lanes or do not follow runners.

    The vid above (any many like it from many others) explains it with examples better than I can but aside from the vids it has easily been visible from Rashford especially for the past few years.

    Big fan of Garnacho but defensively he has always been a big concern for me as he often doesn't track runners or block passing lanes either. As you correctly point out though, some of these are young players so is clearly on EtH as he has brought these guys through. Also he bought Antony who for the most part can defend but just contributes eff all offensively :)

    So a lot of this is very very visible to the naked eye. Especially when you watch City, Liverpool or Arsenal or any other team that actually works hard in the press.

    The reason I have given up on EtH is that it is both tactics and motivation. If he can't motivate the players to work then the tactics are irrelevant anyways - especially if he can't even tweak the tactics to find some kind of half-way house.

    Problem that I posed is whether there actually is a manager who can motivate some of these players to work given we will have burned through 3 managers trying to get our forwards to press, block passing lanes and track back?

    Who do we turn to? I honestly don't know from the people being mentioned.
     
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  12. benni...

    benni... BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 23, 2004
    Chocolate City
    Perfect manager to continue the cycle of firing and hiring. Buying his players, selling the last managers players, then doing it all over again. Going to a totally different system in which we dont have the players for it.
     
  13. Ruud v.Nistelrooy 10

    Staff Member

    Jamaica
    Jun 4, 2006
    Antilla
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Jamaica
    https://www.skysports.com/football/...-latest-on-deals-signings-loans-and-contracts

    fascinating...
     
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  14. JamesA

    JamesA Member+

    Dec 7, 2004
    Victoria
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    What is our current system? Lol
     
  15. JamesA

    JamesA Member+

    Dec 7, 2004
    Victoria
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
  16. benni...

    benni... BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 23, 2004
    Chocolate City
    Its not a 3 back with good wingbacks.

    We've tried to use a 3-2 or 3-1 build structure out the back, but not the same thing.
     
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  17. Ruud v.Nistelrooy 10

    Staff Member

    Jamaica
    Jun 4, 2006
    Antilla
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Jamaica
    at the same time we all know he will have tremendous influence on this regardless
     
  18. JamesA

    JamesA Member+

    Dec 7, 2004
    Victoria
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    That's fair, especially the wing back point. We have neither the depth or quality to pull off such a system. And Lord knows what we'd do with the likes of Garnacho or Amad in that system.

    Rashford could at least function as part of the front 2, but he'd likely not be happy with it. And he still wouldn't defend from the front..lol.
     
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  19. thefly

    thefly Member

    Aug 9, 2007
    Vancouver
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Honest question, what is the solution then with this squad?

    It seems that there are still failures implementing the press etc that leaves huge amounts of space that our MF cannot cope with and exposes our defense. That would seem to suggest changing the tactics to fall back more and plug the space, but isn't that also what no ones wants to see and not what will get United to top 4.

    I cannot figure out where to land here - changing from ETH would either imply that (1) the tactics are wrong for the squad, (2) the tactics are right but the squad is wrong or (3) the tactics are right but the squad isn't following them due to motivation etc.
     
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  20. Ruud v.Nistelrooy 10

    Staff Member

    Jamaica
    Jun 4, 2006
    Antilla
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Jamaica
    long before any change the first obvious step is be more compact and get players closer to each other for passing options instead of a satellite formation. any set of decent players can do this.

    if ten Hag was doing that he could at least hope for conversion rates to improve and results too as a consequence.

    i'd support him with that
     
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  21. CybrSlydr

    CybrSlydr Member+

    Columbus Crew
    United States
    Jun 30, 2013
    Casper, WY
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've been EtH in simply because I didn't think firing him and replacing with any of the available options was a better idea.

    I'm starting to think that the rot in this club goes even deeper. How could so many managers get the sack in the exact same way? It feels like the rot goes even further than the players, like we've been cursed or something.

    How is it that nobody has been able to find any kind of consistent success as a manager at this club since SAF?

    How far does this reset have to go before it works? Obviously the Glazers are a massive part of it - did they make a deal with the Devil that they would buy the club and benefit financially from it but lose all success on the pitch for eternity?

    I still don't think Southgate, Tuchel, or others are going to fare any better than EtH, and if that's the case, I don't see the point in sacking him. Sack him for the week or two bump in form for a new manager just to get back to where we are now in 6mos?
     
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  22. Anonymous_United

    Manchester United
    Brazil
    Jul 13, 2018
    It's the same cycle, new manager comes in and buys his preferred players only to get sacked and leave the new signings at the mercy of the next manager. We are always clearing the old manager deadwood.Im so pissed right now.
     
  23. thefly

    thefly Member

    Aug 9, 2007
    Vancouver
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    This is the part that still has me wavering
     
  24. Chaz Striker

    Chaz Striker Member+

    Jul 26, 2005
    Denver
    Play ole ball. We have the speed and technical players to succeed with this. And there hasn’t been a team that bunkers against us in years.
     
  25. Father Ted

    Father Ted BigSoccer Supporter

    Manchester United, Galway United, New York Red Bulls
    Nov 2, 2001
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    Pressing is not just about working hard. Yes that is part of it but spacing, patterns and collective organization when pressing are all just as important. It seems to me that he hasn't figured out how to properly coach the players how to press. Look at the video you posted, the positioning of our wingers is all wrong. That's coaching.
     

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