Brazilian defense underated?

I agree- I don't think Brazil played well and was just making the point that the team was so talented they could have won by barely showing up. The RC sock goal was the only goal that the WC finalist (France) scored against Brazil.

And obviously, you are correct that the midfield was the problem in 2006. Its amazing that a 3-0 win could show you the extent of Brazil's imbalance, but it did. Had Essien been playing for Ghana that day, it would have been even more obvious.

 

Speaking of Brazilian defenders being frustrated stikers... let's not forget Edmilson's 2002 backwards volley against Costa Rica after two give and go moves into the box. Has a defender ever scored a better world cup goal?

 

Usually the rant & fat 'goalie' ...

 

Great points...especially the 1986 Josimar goal.

 

I dont think anyone uderates the Brasilian defence,its just that from midfield up they are so strong that their defence is their "weakest" part

 

Brz defense is so 'weak' (& now our continental 'hermanos' allow us a candid provocation) that Don Diego Armando Maradona - the terror of the Brittish & Italian defenses (the best of the world) - NEVER scored in his whole career a single goal against a Brazilian club or NT ...

 

I did not know that. Amazing statistic.

 

I 'lied' (or almost)...

There is one single goal for Argentina against Brazil NT in Bs As: after weeks of research I found that solitary goal in YouTube, but didn't save it.

One. And that's it.

Can't find it anymore: anybody could help me to retrieve such rarity? ...

 

Yes, the 'Mundialito' (when I saw the goal on film I thought it was in the Monumental de Nuñez)...

I don't know of any other (either for the NT or club), if anybody knows please tell me...

 

Ever.

And none (if I'm not wrong) against any Brz club either (be it playing for Boca, Argentinos Juniors, Barcelona or Napoli).

How ungrateful!...

Pelé generously scored 29 against them.

For Santos (24):

Boca Juniors - 7
River Plate - 7
Racing - 5
Independiente - 2
NO's Boys - 1
Huracán - 1
Colón - 1

For Brazil (5):

Argentina NT - 5

Notice his special predilection for bosteros & gallinas ...

And 'they' still insist in comparing them ...

 

The topic is 'defense' though.

Let me add in a hurry:

'The best defense is to attack'.

Errr...'fixed' it?

 

Or Brazilian defenses were more effective than the ones he faced in his timelife?...

So,

He didn't 'prove' himself against Brazilian football - which is any Argentinian's main rival (he 'only' proved himself in Italy) ...

The same way Pelé's detractors say he didn't 'prove' himself against European defenses ...

What's not true, since The King played (officially or not) during almost 20 years against the best teams of the world (European or not) and always successfully...

See full list of his games & goals in link:

http://pele.m-qp-m.us/english/pele_statistics.shtml

What only proves Pelé was indeed a planetary player (and that in a time travelling was much more difficult).

Besides 'architect of our elimination' is a way too strong expression for who didn't do anything in a game totally dominated by us (several balls in the post) and was able to execute one lucky pass amidst zillions of legs instead of being merely fouled by Alemão.

That day Brazil didn't lose to Maradona (as some wish): it simply lost to itself.

 

Southamericans know how to shutdown Southamericans.

Although Pelé was less affected by that than El Pibe.

Anyway, doesn't that sound weird? ...

That precisely when Argentina had the historical chance (since for them Maradona was so much better than Pelé) to revert the Brz advantadge in terms of world football prestige, they didn't (or didn't have the opportunities to) use him as often against us?...

And even in the few times he played us, he was so mediochre?...

In terms of World Cups in which El Pibe played we are tied (one 82 Brz win, one 90 Arg win), but in Copa América the advantage is Brz (1989 win).

Besides, I'm not sure if those confrontations were so scarce.

Anybody could help with stats?...

The goal in itself was.

But it's also a fact that Alemão could have 'killed' the play with a foul right at its birth: and that was his specialty.

You can say he 'tried', but he didn't try enough: you can clearly see his 'pé-de-moça' elegantly sparing his brotherly Napoli companion.

'Chances'?...

Brazil gave them a class of football (even under Lazzaroni) and failed in the basics: finalizations &, mainly, the necessary tackle killing the play in the last minute.

If the game went to OT, we'd certainly have enough time to win (or even to revert any unfavourable situation) in virtue of our volume of play.

And that Arg goal in the last minute (thanks to 'Napolitan' Alemão) was bound to be fatal...

 

No clubs?...

That I know a game against Flamengo in Maracanã (2 x 0 Fla).

But there should be some more.

All we have is merely a goal in a friendly tournament & a serve in a WC qualifier?...

He must (or should) have 'proved himself' more against the best football of the planet to be considered 'The Best Player of the XXth Century'.

Now we have to rely on some Chinese & Argentinian adolescent football fans fanatic votes in a suspicious & longinquous Internet poll.

 

I have been banging on about this thread title for ages. Brazil have the best defensive record in wc history - enough said. Brazil actually always knew how to defend very well, and put that together with ball possession means very few conceded.

Of course, too many myths going around these days!

 

kingkong1...

during maradona's time, brazil was not the best national team on the planet.

Which leads me to my next point - with all due respect, and I know you are much older than almost everyone here - I think you talk a bit too fondly of brazilian football here. Brazil are the best in history (for that reason I think any rating which does not have brazil at all-time no.1 is rubbish, ELO included), but they're not as much above everyone else as it seems you generally make out. In fact I think it's pretty damn close.

 

OK,

In 1978, Brazil was third in a time Maradona was already famous in his own land: too bad Menotti didn't call him.

Anyway, with or without Maradona, Brazil was the 3rd best in that Cup, and if it were not for facts we all know very well, Brazil would be in that final instead of Argentina.

And would very probably have beaten a Holland without Cruyjff way more easily than Argentina did.

In 1982, though, Maradona was there, and all he did was to express its frustration by being sent off in a game in which Zico & Co gave the cards.

And Brazil, even leaving the Cup early, was elected the best NT of that Cup, and, up to our days, one of the best ever.

In 1986, the story could have been totally different if Zico hadn't lost that penalty against France, in a game Brz significantly involved Platini's great team.

In 1990, without great stars (Romário was just starting to show his claws) Maradona was there again in the game against Brazil, just to be totally involved by the Brz game (something that had already happened at the 1989 Copa America). Argentina had its only victory ever against a Brz side in a WC thanks to a fatality.

In 1994 Brz finally became champion - and Maradona also was there.

So in Maradona time, i.e., from 1978 to 1994, in three out of 5 Cups, Brazil had the best NT of that period (82), was world champion once & third once.

I know that can be arguable, but that doesn't make me become in smallest least the 'patriot' you want me me to look like.

If that doesn't make Brazil the best football country of that period in terms of records, I frankly don't see any other team better in terms of quality of football actually displayed on the field.

As far as all-time, forgive me, the difference is quite considerable (specially if the criterion used is this last one).