Brazilian Club to Support?

Discussion in 'Brazil' started by Montréal United, Jun 11, 2003.

  1. Montréal United

    Montréal United New Member

    Apr 11, 2001
    Montréal,Qc
    Club:
    Montreal Impact
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Who to support?

    Hi

    Having Fox Sports World since a year, I started to appreciate the Brazilian football shows. Being from a country with no major football clubs, I'm pretty much a free agent when it comes to supporting clubs.

    I'm looking for a club to support in the Brasileirão. Can anybody suggests me something. These are the criterias I look for by comparing it to the Premiership:

    1) Not a super powerhouse (No way I'm rooting for a team that wins every year like ManU)
    2) A team with good fan support (no Wimbeldon please)
    3) A team with some potential to win (No Sunderlands)
    4) A team with at least one good local derby.
    5) It could also be a sleeping giant.

    To compare, I root for Newcastle in the EPL (reason 1,2,3), St-Etienne in France (5) and Werder Bremen in the Bundesliga (no reason other than a Canadian player).

    Would I be wrong in picking one of these?

    Cruzeiro
    Santos
    Corinthians
    São Paulo
    Vasco
    Flamengo

    An historical background would be appreciated

    Thanks

    Bonus questions:

    1) is there any good site in English to get results?
    2) Is Kleberson for Atlético-PR really good? Newcastle seem pretty interested and from what I saw at the WC he looked pretty good. Or was it just the fact he played with such stars around him?
     
  2. MIGkiller

    MIGkiller Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    May 9, 2003
    Rio de Janeiro
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    You you have to support Flamengo. But I'm being biased, of course. It has the biggest fan base in Brazil. It's not one of the brazilian powerhouses anymore (at least when it comes to winning championships all the time), but it had some of the brazilian dream teams of the 80s, and it's still fun to watch. Zico, Junior are among the most popular Flamengo players of all time.

    We're also at the Copa do Brasil final. The 2nd leg is today's night, away. We're the underdogs against Cruzeiro. :)


    Answering your questions, I don't know of a good site in english with brazilian football news. And Kleberson is that good. :) In my opinion the best player of the Brazil x Germany WC final last year.


    Cheers.
    MIG
     
  3. SoccerScout

    SoccerScout Member

    Jan 3, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    Club:
    Internacional Porto Alegre
    You described INTERNACIONAL!

    Watch them on Fox this Sunday in the HUGE DERBY Internacional x Gremio aka GreNal. One of the fierset rivalries in the world. The game this time will be at Gremios Stadium. Gremio and Inter are BITTER rivals and you can watch this at 11PM EST on Fox Sunday..what an opportunity!

    Inter is in 3rd place, won the Brasileiro in 74, 75 and 79 when they had one of the best Brazilian squads of all time. In 79 they went undefeated, the only team to EVER do that in Brazil.

    They won the Copa do Brasil in 1992, so thats why they have 4 stars on their Jersey. They are about to win the state Gaucho Championship. They won a semifinal tonight 1x0 and play next wednesday the home match.

    Inter's Greatest player to date: Falcao played on the 1982 WC Dream team, lifts the 79 Brasileiro Championship.
    [​IMG]


    Forget Rio clubs (Fla, Flu, Vasco). They are arrogant and usually way overrated.

    Cruzeiro is too good right now (won the Copa tonight) so that would be too easy of a pick.

    Go with Internacional, also known as Colorado (meaning RED). They will give you happiness, heartbreak, respect and play their hearts out. They also have a great stadium, the Beira Rio.

    [​IMG]

    PS: Kleberson is a good solid player but not a GREEEAAT player.

    English sites..hmmm..Im not sure, though some keep updates here.
     
  4. SoccerScout

    SoccerScout Member

    Jan 3, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    Club:
    Internacional Porto Alegre
    [​IMG]

    Sport Club Internacional - 1909
     
  5. Wolves_67

    Wolves_67 Member

    Oct 27, 2002
    Pasadena, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It has to be Santos. There is no reason to discuss this further. :)
     
  6. Riotom9

    Riotom9 Member

    Oct 10, 2000
    Texas
    Must be Flamengo. They have the potential to be a great team - you just don't know what year that will happen. Huge fan base. Great tradition and history. From Romario, Zico, Junior...and of course in 4-6 years Ronaldo will return to Brasil to finally play for the team of his dreams.

    Internacional will never arrive. They may not be demoted, but when you know you will always be a 50/50 team. Their run this year will dry up.

    Santos is a great choice too - but you'll just be hopping on the bandwagon if you choose them while Diego and Robinho are there. It's easy to like them now...if you're a frontrunner. ;-)
     
  7. PsyKoh

    PsyKoh New Member

    Apr 26, 2003
    Blah, blah, blah.... you all know he just described PAYSANDU..... :D
     
  8. Bandeirante

    Bandeirante Member

    Dec 7, 2001
    Seattle, WA
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Flamengo is a no brainer, and no one can accuse you of picking a winner!!! Don't pick Inter. If you go to southern Brasil for a team, Gremio is the obvious choice. If you go to a paulista team, pick the namesake: Sao Paulo. Very well run team but underachieving as we speak.
     
  9. eugene

    eugene New Member

    Feb 24, 2000
    new jersey, usa
    Club:
    Celtic FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Mengão or Fogão?

    Mengão or Fogão? My personal Debate continues.

    This is a question of monumental ethical and philosophical importance for me ;-) : which Brasilian futebol clube to support, Flamengo or Botafogo?

    I read an interesting book review that is relevant to this. It appeared in the New York Times Book Review of Sunday, Jun.7, 2003. Tobin Harshaw reviews 'True Believers': The Tragic Inner Life of Sports Fans by Joe Queenan. According to Harshaw, the book "is a Miss Manners-type guide to the best and worst of sports fandom, but in its heart it is a paean to the spirit of the author's hometown. (Philadelphia)."

    Quennan has remained loyal to the Philly sports teams of his youth despite the fact that has have enjoyed only periodic sucess. The paragraph that caught my eye was: "So what bothers him? To some extent, the usual suspects: Yankee fans, who act ''as if . . . passion for the Yankees involves some sort of risk, when in fact saying you support the Yankees is like saying you support the air.'' Dallas Cowboys fans. Los Angeles Lakers fans. His particular ire is held for various species of front-runners. These loathsome creatures, whose ranks grow more quickly than the Chicago Cubs' team E.R.A. in September, range from the ''bicoastal front-runner'' (cheers for the Lakers and the Knicks) to the ''incoherent front-runner'' (cheers for Notre Dame and the University of Miami Hurricanes) to the ''compulsive front-runner,'' with his closetful of discarded Duke Blue Devils, Chicago Bulls and San Francisco 49ers paraphernalia. ''He is the type of fan who is incapable of supporting any team that is unlikely to win the next championship because he believes it reflects badly on him as a person. . . . They are very bad people.''

    Substitute Flamengo for Lakers or Knicks or Cowboys or Yankees and this poses a real problem for me and any potential afiliation with O Mais Querido.

    In my Fla-Bota struggle, I've often wondered if supporting Flamengo, undoubtedly the largest team in Brasil with the a hugh torcida spread out all over the country, might not smack a little bit like rooting for the Dallas Cowboys - America's Team, or for the New York Yankees. It would be so easy to identify with the Largest Team In The World, especially when this team is located in a city nicknamed "A Cidade Maravilosa". Fla also plays in Maracaná, The Largest Stadium in The World.

    Undoubtedly the majority of cariocas who support Flamengo are born that way, but as a non-Brasiloian, the idea of being a frontrunner, of rooting for Goliath, doesn't sit well with me.

    Not that Fla's size has guarranteed uninterrupted sucess. The recent DISASTER vs. Cruzeiro in the Copa do Brasil is more than enough proof of that!

    The behind the scenes in-fighting within Fla has assured that the club has shot itself in the foot more times than not in the years that followed the golden era in which Zico and Junior led the team to the World Club Championship in 1981. The mentality is that Fla is so big, that all an aspiring club presidente/Godfather has to do is to survive the mafiosa style power struggles and emerge on top. After that, Fla's size alone assures success, so all the winner has to do is sit back and let the championships, star players and the considerable revenues they create just roll in.

    But instead, they have a team that can't punch its own weight in the Brasilero (and really hasn't done so in 20 years), a club complex in Gavea that, according to what i read (i've never seen it myself) is a complete wreck and a debt the size of the one Brasil owes to the IMF-World Bank. (I think the power company turned off the electricity last year for lack of payment.)

    Botafogo might offer an even worse scenario of incompentence and corruption. For starters, they are in the Segundona, a real hell-hole. They don't even have their own training facility, so their players have to drive all over RJ to the different sites they manage to rent. Their stadium, Caio Martins, finally got an overhaul but it only holds about 12,000 people plus its not even located in Botafogo, but in Niteroi, a suburb on the other side of the Guanabara.

    All teams have their sponsor's name on their jerseys, and sometimes the ads can be designed in such a way as to minimize the ashtetic and ethcical damage. Internacional's "Banisur" jersey is just such a jersey where the ad does not overwhelm the identity of the team itself. But Botafogo's jersey is particularly grotesque. It has "GOLDEN CROSS" emblazoned across the chest. I refused to buy one because i was afraid the ad would make me look like a fanatic evangelico!!

    And hard to believe, Botafogo's debt might be even larger than Flamengo's. How they could have run up such a large debt - millions of reis - is beyond me. They certainly didn't spend it building a good team or infrastructure.

    to be continued.........
     
  10. Montréal United

    Montréal United New Member

    Apr 11, 2001
    Montréal,Qc
    Club:
    Montreal Impact
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Thanks everybody!!!

    It seems the board is filled with Flamengo fans...

    I'm still looking around. Boy, I suddenly wish I could read Portuguese. Not one official web site with english to be found...

    Still tempting:

    Cruzeiro (I know they are hot right now, but it won't last forever)
    Flamengo (seems pretty good, but Eugene's points are pretty interesting)
    Inter (will see on Sunday)
    Sao Paulo (what kind of club are they?)
    Corinthians (also looking for some info)

    Out:

    Santos, because the youngsters will hear the european mermaid singing soon...
    Vasco, don't seem much liked.

    Is it possible to link your suggested club to one similar in Europe?

    example:

    A big club that doesn't have a good reputation because of shady transactions but that many people still like would be similar to L'Olympique de Marseille

    A succesful club with good fans, but horrible finances would be like Lazio

    A succesful club, but with no fan backing would be like Monaco
     
  11. MathuzaLem

    MathuzaLem New Member

    May 30, 2003
    SP, Brazil
    Santos is not just a bunch of teenagers... Santos was considered by fifa as the best team in america in the last century, well 3 years ago... and santos just had a bad fase not winning any championship for 19 years, but if we remember even corinthinas stayed 21 years and palmeira 20 years... and know of course the young players make the difference, but even they going to europe we will not let santos drop down, cause they worth a lot and selling them we can buy other good players... I'm no asking u to support santos, I just clearing what u said... And by the way even the supporters of our rivals when there's a santos game they stop everything that they r doin' just to watch santos play, just like in pele's time...
     
  12. SoccerScout

    SoccerScout Member

    Jan 3, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    Club:
    Internacional Porto Alegre
    (man I had a whole response typed and lighting shut off my PC..so here I go again)

    Flamengo or any Rio or Sao Paulo team isnt worthy of foreign support. They already are babied by CBF. CBF has a huge bias against any team NOT from Rio and Sao Paulo.

    Just today rumours are going around that if Cruzeiro (not from Rio-SP) wins the Brasileiro also , Flamengo will be given a spot in the Libertadores 2004 which ALWAYS is given to the runnerups in the Brasileiro and NOT from the Copa do Brasil. But seeing an opportunity to give away a spot to sweet cherished Flamengo CBF further corrupts Brasilian soccer. Cruzeiro already won a spot in the CL 04 thats why if they finish in the top 3 of the Brasileiro another spot would be available. The spot is always given to the next up in the Brasileiro but now pressure is on to put Flamengo in.

    Despite the Rio-SP favoritism in Brasil for everything invcluding callups to the National team, teams from elswhere have managed to overcome the bias.

    Look at the Copa do Brasil stat. 15 Championships and Rio only won it once with Flamengo. Sao Paulo State won 3 times, thats 4 of 15 for the big 2 states. MEANWHILE Rio Grande do Sul with Inter, Gremio and Juventude have won the Copa 6 times. 3 teams 6 titles. Rio 4 teams 1 title. SP 5 or 6 teams 3 titles. Minas gerais with Cruzeiro have aslo done well with 4 titles. Atletico from Minas has 0.

    Read my "Understanding Brazilian soccer" thread from months ago to give you more history:
    https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=8896&highlight=soccerscout

    Go Inter on Sunday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Colorado! Colorado! Colorado!
    The only undefeated Brazilian Champ...EVER!
     
  13. slipknotter

    slipknotter New Member

    May 31, 2000
    Austin, TX

    São Paulo Futebol Clube (a.k.a. SPFC, Tricolor) is a club whose facilities are located in the affluent Southside São Paulo district of Morumbi. Their stadium, Cícero Pompeu de Toledo (aka Morumbi) was the largest privately owned stadium until the early 90s, when safety regulations forced the club to shut down virtually the entire lower section of the stadium due to poor maintenance.
    SPFC's glory days came in the early 90s. Led by legendary Brazilian coach Telê Santana, the club went on to win the Libertadores and Toyota Cup 2 years in a row, 1992 and 1993, when they also snagged the Cup Winner's Cup and the Supercup (a competition featuring all the clubs that have won the Libertadores in its modern era).
    They still are one of the more succesful clubs in the country, but don't have the countrywide support that other larger-market clubs like Corinthians and Flamengo seem to enjoy.
    So this would definitely not be your sleeping giant...
     
  14. Riotom9

    Riotom9 Member

    Oct 10, 2000
    Texas
    If you're truly looking for a sleeping giant, Gremio has always been one of my favorites. They've got a great team, great supporters, perform well in almost every event they're in - yet almost no one knows who they are. Ronaldinho Gaucho of course started out their a Fabio Baiano was a star there recently. Anderson Polga who played a nice role supporting Brazil's backline in 2002 I believe still plays there.
     
  15. MadridForLife

    MadridForLife New Member

    Oct 13, 2002
    Worcester, MA
    I'm looking for a club to Support

    I am also looking for a brazilian club to support. Someone mentioned not supporting a Sao Paulo or Rio club. Could someone give me a list w/ a little writeup on the other clubs not based in those two cities.

    Also if I recall this another club that plays in the same city as Cruzeiro, what team is that?

    Thanks a lot for the help.
     
  16. MIGkiller

    MIGkiller Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    May 9, 2003
    Rio de Janeiro
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Re: I'm looking for a club to Support

    That other team from Belo Horizonte is Atlético-MG, or simply Atlético Mineiro.

    But I think that you as a Real fan would not be interested in supporting a team that is called Atlético. ;)
     
  17. eugene

    eugene New Member

    Feb 24, 2000
    new jersey, usa
    Club:
    Celtic FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No Copa Libertadores for Fla for Copa do Brasil runner-up

    according to this, the CBF reaffimred the criteria for which teams go into next year's Copa Libertadores. Copa winner Cruzeiro is already in. The others will be the top three finishers in the Brasilian championship. SuperScout, not without good reason, raised the spector of the CBF changing the rules to allow Flamengo into the Copa Libertadores because Fla was the Copa do Brasil runners-up.

    SuperScout, I'm shocked, SHOCKED that you would suggest that the CBF (and Globo) would ever bend the rules as a favor to a big team! ;-) Are you suggesting that the futebol authorities in Brasil are not ethical!!!!!!! :)))))))))))) (you might want to fill in readers about all the favors Fluminense got a few years back.)

    ************************************
    CBF: vice do Fla não garante vaga na Libertadores

    A CBF sepultou qualquer esperança rubro-negra de disputar a Taça Libertadores de América-2004 por ter sido o segundo colocado na Copa do Brasil. Muitos sonhavam com a possibilidade na hipótese do campeão, o Cruzeiro, ser também um dos três mais bem colocados no Campeonato Brasileiro.

    A diretoria da CBF aprovou na terça-feira, 17 de junho, duas Resoluções que dirimem as dúvidas sobre as vagas para clubes brasileiros na próxima Libertadores.

    Conforme previsto, as vagas brasileiras para a próxima edição da Libertadores serão destinadas ao os três clubes de maior pontuação no Campeonato Brasileiro e o campeão da Copa do Brasil. Se o Cruzeiro, vencedor da Copa do Brasil, também ficar entre os três mais bem colocados no Campeonato Brasileiro, dará sua vaga para o quarto colocado no Campeonato Brasileiro.

    Se o Santos conquistar o título na Libertadores, o que o classificaria automaticamente para a próxima edição, e terminar o Campeonato Brasileiro entre os três mais bem colocados, cederá sua vaga para o quinto colocado do Brasileirão 2003.
     
  18. MadridForLife

    MadridForLife New Member

    Oct 13, 2002
    Worcester, MA
    Thanks for the help. I agree Atletico Miniero is not for me.

    Also who are the biggest clubs who play outside of Rio and Sao Paulo?

    Where does Gremio and Vasco play?

    Thanks a lot.
     
  19. MadridForLife

    MadridForLife New Member

    Oct 13, 2002
    Worcester, MA
    I found a website about Internacional that had a state map and listed Gremio as their big rival so please disregard the Gremio question from my previous post. Now that I think about it I think my frontrunner for my support is Inter, I don't know much about them if someone could give me a little background info on the club that would be great. The reson is last summer was when I first started really following footy and Euro and S. American leagues I was in Italy and saw a guy selling jerseys and I saw one that looked nice and it was a Vieri Inter shirt so I have supported Inter in Italy and Europe ever since.
     
  20. SoccerScout

    SoccerScout Member

    Jan 3, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    Club:
    Internacional Porto Alegre
    Madrid,
    On this same thread I write about INTER, look at page one. I have some history there. INTER is the way to go, its a GREAT club from Porto Alegre.

    There website is:

    http://www.Internacional.com.br
     
  21. MadridForLife

    MadridForLife New Member

    Oct 13, 2002
    Worcester, MA
    Club to Support

    I am still looking for a Brazilian club to support and I think I/m leaning towards a club from the big cities, either Sao Paulo or Rio. Could someone tell me the clubs that play there, but Santos is out of the picture b/c i don't want to jump on the Robinho/Diego bandwagon. Thanks a lot.
     
  22. JJ Mindset

    JJ Mindset Member

    Dec 7, 2000
    Sao Paulo & Rio de Janeiro

    I'll try to answer your question the best I can, MadridForLife.

    Sao Paulo State

    It's a state with the largest population in Brasil. Sao Paulo City is, I believe, the second-largest city in Latin America. So, you can imagine, there have been a lot of clubs founded.

    In the city, there's Sao Paulo Futebol Clube(SPFC), in the Morumbi. Then there's Corinthians, said to be founded by Englishmen who built the rail lines. On another part of the city is Palmeiras, who wear the traditional green colors. Sao Paulo City is actually landlocked. Head out towards to coast to reach the port city of Santos, where Pele first became famous.

    Then there are cities that are adjacent to SPC, like Campinas(home to Ponte Preta and (I think) Guarani) and Sao Caetano do Sul(Sao Caetano, finalists in the Copa Libertadores 2002), a working-class city. Another club in the state is Portuguesa.

    Rio de Janeiro State

    Once held the capital city of Brasil(Rio) before it was moved to Brasilia. In Rio, there are said to be 4 clubs of importance. The one said to be the biggest is Flamengo. In the beginning of their existence, football wasn't that important. Their original sport was rowing(Hence the "Regatas" part of their official name). But football became their most important venture upon learning how popular it became to the lower classes. They have a fierce rivalry with Fluminense, nicknamed "Flu". So the rivalry is called Fla-Flu.

    The other two clubs are Vasco da Gama, named after the Portuguese explorer who found the passage to India by going around the continent of Africa, and Botafogo. Another club in the RJS area is America RJ.


    If you have any more questions, just ask one of the people who are Brasilian.
     
  23. MIGkiller

    MIGkiller Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    May 9, 2003
    Rio de Janeiro
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    After the 4 bigs of Rio de Janeiro, there's also:

    - Bangu (runner-ups of Brasileiro' 85) from the suburban area of Rio;

    - Americano, from the countryside of the state, and favorite team of the hated boss of the Rio de Janeiro Federation;

    - América, from a middle-class club in Rio. It's one of those cases of fallen powerhouses, here in Rio. It was once a big team from the 60s till the 80s providing some players for the seleção. It's now on Série C of Brasileirão, and they still have some loyal fans, but from the old generations, understandably. Also called Mequinha and Diabo (because of the red jersey), it's reportedly the 2nd favorite team of the cariocas.
     
  24. MadridForLife

    MadridForLife New Member

    Oct 13, 2002
    Worcester, MA
    Thanks for the info. The club I first considered was Sao Paulo, but they just linked up w/ ManU so thats a no. My top choices are Vasco, Corinthians and Palmeiras. Also could you tell me where some top Brazilians in Europe started out. Correct me if Im wrong but Roberto Carlos played with Palmeiras as did Rivaldo? I could tie in my R.Madrid love here as R. Carlos is one of my favorites. Thanks
     
  25. Benedict XVI

    Benedict XVI Member

    Nov 22, 1999
    Ciudad del Encanto
    Club:
    Lisburn Distillery FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you want a team that fulfills all your requirements and is famous throughout the world, you will need to cross Porto Alegre and root for Grêmio FBPA. Rio Grande do Sul's only Libertadores and World Club Champion....... Former club of World Cup champions Ronaldinho Gaucho and Felipe Scolari...

    Plus our shirt is nicer.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     

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