Brasil all-time draft - Discussion Thread 3

I am typing this one in Word. =)

It’s very easy to underestimate the Turkish league, particularly since its strong points are precisely marking, defense, and pegada. If you look at the goals Alex scored or assists made (many of them being in the famous video), you will find that the vast majority of them involve an incredible amount of skill or vision. The free kick goals certainly are beyond reproach, as it is just as hard to do in Turkey as Italy. Not everything carries the same weight, but .78 assists per game this year is remarkable no matter where you are… if it were so easy to do, you’d see more players in the Superliga doing it, and you don’t.

I don’t think it’s impossible to find this out, because if Alex goes to the WC, I fully expect him to win the spot from Kaka or from another starter. As I was mentioning before, there have been occasions where Kaka was the starter and Alex a sub where the reserve team beat or tied the titulares with brilliant assists / participation by Alex. That would be hard to ignore during the WC, as would the pressure of him coming into a game and proving to be decisive.

From the time when they were both playing in Brasil (Tostão’s words, not my own):
“Kaká é um jogador excepcional [...] mas continua tentando, excessivamente, driblar e arrancar do meio-campo à área. Quer repetir alguns momentos brilhantes. Ele tem de descobrir o momento exato para fazer isso.”
“Kaká não tem a criatividade, a visão ampla e coletiva e o passe certeiro e às vezes surpreendente do Alex. O meia do Cruzeiro também finaliza bem e é excepcional nas bolas paradas. É o melhor jogador que atua no Brasil.

Falta ao Alex a mobilidade, forca física, velocidade e agressividade do Kaká. Ninguém é perfeito.”

and more recently:

“Kaká tenta mais jogadas individuais. Acerta e erra mais. Quando perde a bola, propicia o contra-ataque. No Milan, ele tem tocado mais a bola. Os técnicos italianos gostam do jogador que acerta muito e do que erra pouco. Ao contrário do Kaká, Alex não joga mal porque erra muito e sim porque aparece pouco.”

“Na maior parte de um jogo, Alex é apenas um bom meia ofensivo. Toca a bola e pouco dribla. Espera o momento certo para brilhar. Alex é um jogador de detalhes, de poucos, precisos, belos e decisivos lances."

“O craque precisa esperar o momento certo para brilhar, como faz o Alex.”

Kaka is a better athlete, he uses his superior physical abilities and superb technique to greater effect. Alex has by far the greater understanding of the game, IMO, and is the craque and better footballer – he relies more on his mind, vision and skill than his physical attributes. He’s not as fast as Kaka, or as good of a high speed dribbler (though he is still exceptional), but his passing is in a different league. Maybe I value passing too much, but I think it’s probably the most important basic aspect of the game.

I am not saying that you do take it lightly… merely that I don’t use the word like many do. A lot of people see someone do something that requires extreme skill and label that player a craque. It takes more for me… there is a strong mental aspect that needs to be considered. Like I said, I think Kaka is the closest to being considered a craque, but he still needs to show and accomplish more.

We definitely have a different view of him. I see him more of a striker or meia-atacante than a midfield playmaker, someone to conclude rather than create plays (there is nothing wrong with that). He excels at conducting the ball, and he can make a short pass to find a teammate in space… but when have you seen him being a organizational force in midfield, playing defense splitting through balls, or making yourself question how the hell he saw a particular thing. He has the technique and habilidade, but not the creativity of an Alex or Ronaldinho. These two often decide what they are going to do with a ball before it reaches them… it gets to them and it’s on it’s way somewhere else. I rarely see Kaka try such a thing. Again, nothing wrong with this but I have my biases (look at the players I took in the first two rounds of the draft) as to what I think makes someone the better player. I don’t find the need to constantly rate things, but if you force me to choose, I choose Alex over Kaka.

Yes.

Adriano looked great at the last Copa America, but who was keeping him supplied with balls with which to score? Out of Brasil’s 13 goals, 8 were either scored or assisted by Alex – in just 5 out of the 6 games (and this says nothing about the penultimate passes which broke open the defense but are not counted as assists). Brasil lost to Paraguay, and that was precisely the game where Alex did not play. I agree that Adriano plays better when he is surrounded by craques, but I think 3 craques is better than 2.

I think you are undervaluing his achievements… sure, he isn’t setting La Liga alight, but the things he’s done would be hard to do anywhere. In the last CL, his feats even included an away victory at Bernabeu in which he scored. For a 20 minute period at the end of a game, his geniality and decisiveness would be a great asset.

Like I said, Kleberson is a marginal call. I think we have enough defensive volantes and could use one with his two way qualities and playmaking/passing ability as well as his long range shot. Out of the ones you mentioned, I’d surely take Edmilson (and I like Renato) But Kleberson is just my preference… we all have our teimosias… this is one of mine. I think he has something special, and I want him to recover his prestige.

He has played for the seleção as a LE – in France ’98 and before (though not with this one). He has occasionally played as a LE in recent years as well when needed. I disagree that it changes much, plus you get an in form player for the LE (there are very few) that has entrosamento with the current players (even fewer) and an extra slot to use elsewhere. I think this is a good way to take an extra craque… like Alex or Rivaldo.

 

I beg to differ. It’s almost a circular argument we’re engaged in here: I say that you are undervaluing his achievements, and you say that you aren’t but then point to the fact that they were achieved in Turkey and not Spain or Italy. In Italy his scoring and assists might be lower, but I doubt that it would be lower to the extent that you seem to imply. In Spain, his scoring could arguably be higher. The point I am trying to make is that he went to Turkey and adapted pretty much instantly… you didn’t see a dip in form, you didn’t see a significant drop in his stats, in fact, what you saw was the opposite – for the last three years he’s been performing at the same level he did for Cruzeiro. You say Kaka has become an idol at Milan, well so has Alex at Fenerbahce (which is extremely rare for a foreign player to achieve). He, like Kaka, is recognized as the best player in the league, and has been decisive in his team’s form, perhaps more so because 48% of the team’s offensive production involves him directly in the form of a goal or an assist (this is, again, to say nothing of passes that split a defense, but are not the last pass to be made before the goal). The things Alex does (watch his 250th goal, or some of his FK goals, or his bicycle kick) wouldn’t be any harder to do in Italy or Spain… they require the same level of technique and skill to do in Turkey as any where else. or

Furthermore, you seem to be devaluing what he did with your team. No Brasilian team has ever done what Cruzeiro did in 2003. Ever. Brasilian football is far too equilibrado. Alex desequilibrou. I’ve watched football for a long time, but I’ve never seen anything quite like it. Maybe, as a Corintiano I value what your team did than you do as a Cruzeirense... that doesn’t make any sense to me, particularly if you went to the Mineirão and saw it with your own eyes.

"Mas o que mais influiu na escalação do Kaká não foram os detalhes técnicos e táticos e nem suas boas atuações nos dois primeiros jogos das Eliminatórias. Foi o fato de ele jogar bem numa das principais equipes da Europa.

Por causa da saída dos melhores jogadores e da queda de qualidade do futebol que se pratica hoje no Brasil, há um conceito ou preconceito de que para se tornar definitivamente um fora-de-série, o jogador tem de brilhar num dos grandes times da Europa. Kaká não atua melhor no Milan do que fazia no São Paulo. Mas agora ele é um craque do mundo." – Tostão

Also… let me not neglect to mention this:

If Kaka is so devastating and the Brasilian league is so easy, why couldn’t he help his team beat Corinthians or Santos in the decisive games of 2002? Why didn’t he win the Brasileiro in 2002 or 2003? At the same time, you know better than I that your team wouldn’t have come close to what it did in 2003 without Alex. Chalk it down to age if you wish… surely it was a factor, but Alex was younger too, and had things to prove just like Kaka. If you recall, it was this year that SPFC earned the nickname “Bambis”… for turning yellow in virtually every major decisive game. Kaka was the main player on that team and you certainly couldn’t accuse it of lacking supporting talent – no, what it lacked was mettle.

Nothing has been “proven,” he has been accused, quite unfairly, of “sleeping” on the field by some in the media -- particularly a certain Galvão Bueno -- which will remain unnamed.

When has Alex been given a good run of play as a titular? At the Copa America in 2004. Did he disappoint there or underperform? No. He was decisive.

Sorry for my excessive use of Tostão quotes… you see, they are quite wonderful and I’ve already had to do considerable work compiling them for the site… it would be a shame to not use them:

"Durante e após a vitória contra o Chile e até sair o primeiro gol contra a Costa Rica, voltaram com intensidade os comentários de que o Alex dorme em campo, não vibra, não tem espírito de Seleção e só joga bem em clubes. Se o Brasil perder o título, todos esses lugares-comuns serão repetidos.

Tudo que é falado nas transmissões da TV Globo, certas ou erradas, importantes ou não, é repetida pela maioria da imprensa e torcedores. Torna-se verdade. É o pensamento único, cada dia mais presente.

Parte da imprensa elege os seus preferidos, não só pela qualidade técnica, mas também pela simpatia e por darem boas entrevistas [note: eu acrecentaria a beleza tambem]. Edu, que é um bom volante, porém burocrático (parece jogador inglês), é tratado como se fosse um craque. Qualquer passe para o lado é valorizado. Quando joga mal é por causa da altitude."

“Sempre que jogar mal, vão dizer que o Alex dormiu em campo. Depois de carimbado, é difícil apagar a marca.” – Tostão

The only thing he hasn’t won with Brasil is the Confederations Cup and the World Cup (and the Olympic Football Tournament, but then, neither has anyone else). With the latter, he was never given a chance, with the former, he participated in 1999 of a very good sub-23 side that lost 4-3 to Mexico at the Azteca and managed to beat Germany (the reigning European Champions) by 4-0 and was injured during the last callup.

I challenge you to name a single player other than Alex, in any league, that has been putting up these kinds of numbers (.53 GPG, .56 APG) for three years straight. Ronaldinho has done pretty much that this year (~ .6 GPG, .4 APG), but not last year.

It would be a guess. And it’s pure speculation, but see if you can come up with someone that fits what I said above.

I can hope, and I can work hard. I am not worried about him being a titular or not… as long as he is one of the 23, things will play out.

We’ll just have to agree to disagree on this as we aren’t getting anywhere.

There are factors other than quality of a player that influence how well they solidify their position within the seleção. I don’t think there is any question as to Kaka being more telegenic and that his style of play (disputing nearly every ball, running back and forth, etc) gains more attention than the supposedly sonolento Alex. Tactically however, Alex’s off the ball movement, and positioning are amazing… suddenly, seemingly out of nowhere, there he is, and before you know it, he’s put the striker one on one with the keeper. To save myself a lot of time, and you as well, take a look at this article, which summarizes a lot of these issues with considerably more concision than I have done. I would just add once again that half a goal and half an assist per game for three years is incredible regularity.

I think Alex and Kaka are in another league in terms of vision, passing AND creativity. I also disagree that Kaka’s finishing is all that much better than Alex’s. Kaka is definitely faster, stronger, and plays with a beautiful and objective simplicity that I think is commendable and unmatched; his nearly vertical runs and the regularity with which he pulls them off are fantastic. His stamina and fitness are also amazing, and above Alex’s capabilities… but again, to me, Alex is a footballing genius while Kaka is an exceptional player with the strong probability of being considered a craque in the future.

Perhaps I am being unfair. As I said, Kaká is probably the closest in my mind to being considered a craque and has a long career ahead of him during which he will almost certainly attain this mantle. When I said that people are too eager to throw around the word craque because of an amazing display of ability, I was not referring to Kaka. I was thinking more along the lines of Denilson.

I haven’t even read it but none taken… we’re just having a discussion. You are challenging my arguments, and there’s certainly nothing to be offended about.

He was spectacular in that game, to be sure, but Alex pulls off those kinds of passes with maddening regularity. And… (again a bit of a cheap shot) who won that title?

I confess to not seeing nearly as many Milan games as you… partly because I am not as interested in Serie A as I am in La Liga and the Brasileiro, the two main campeonatos that I follow. I’ll catch an odd Milan or EPL game here and there, but surely you’ve seen more of him than I. I respect that I may not have as a well formed opinion on him as you do, but from what I have seen (filtered through my own particular set of biases), Kaka is a conductor and concluder… not a playmaker or armador. He can make plays, but there are better playmakers. And that isn’t to say that he may not be the most important player in Milan’s offensive line and the creation of a great many of their goals.

That’s not true. My opinion is based on what I have seen. If I see things that justify considering Kaka a better player, he will be a better player in my mind… regardless of who is my favorite.

See above.

There are all sorts of factors that influence this sort of decision as well as how a player is perceived. Many teams don’t have room in their tactical systems for a player like Alex. His marketing is terrible compared to his contemporaries, and likewise, the philosophy in many places is that you adapt the players to the tactics, not vice versa. I think this is wrong… you shape the tactics to best exploit the talent, but many do not think this way.

Alex owns his own passe. He could easily have gone anywhere after that 2003 performance. IMO, if he had gone to Spain, he’d be in the running for FIFA World Player of the Year or the Ballon D’or right about now… no matter how arbitrary and subjective such ratings can be. I think the move to Turkey has been poison for his career… not because of the quality of the league or anything else, but rather for the visibility he is getting for his feats. He has never concerned himself too much with these things, however, and it is his career after all. What right do I have to second guess him? The main reason I wish he’d gone to Spain is that I’d get to see him play regularly.

Sure he did, but he had Ronaldinho, Robinho and Kaka to keep him well fed with balls.

Like I said. He should start. Kaka should start. We should use the 4-2-2-2 that has served us well lately. What we should not do is be afraid to change, and to have decisive talent on the bench. If said talent turns out to work better, I say run with it. The current Brasil team is fully capable of winning the WC without Alex… I just think that having him improves our chances significantly.

He was our best player last time around and he is still a genius. He can’t display the regularity he did before and should definitely not start, but I am willing to bet that he’d come through in a moment of desperation better than Nilmar. Rivaldo eats pressure for breakfast, lunch and dinner. As a Corintiano, I have no hesitation in saying that, great player or not, Nilmar has to show quite a bit of football to be worthy of polishing his boots. In all fairness, I’d love Nilmar to go… but what is the likelihood of him actually getting to play?

I know you did… I acknowledged that, but for having played LE on the seleção before, and that being his native position, I think he’s a natural fit. Also as a Corintiano, I am telling you… Nery’s a good lateral, but his form of late has been abysmal. Better to take someone who regularly gets playing time and has entrosamento with the group.

You are insisting on the midfield change being a big deal… I don’t think it is, and that in many ways, it would be an improvement.

 

I am not arguing that the quality of La Liga, Serie A or the Premiership are comparable to the Turkish Superleague. They are unquestionably better, and to say that they aren’t is patently absurd. However, if you look at much of what Alex has done, the difficulty would not be any higher were he to be playing in another league. That being the case, you cannot simply throw out the statistics, because they remain incredibly pertinent and exceptional independent of where he achieved them. Let me illustrate what I mean by this: While at Cruzeiro, Alex scored 64 goals and had 61 assists in 121 games. That is an average of .529 goals and .504 assists per game. At Fener, he’s scored 51 goals and made 55 assists (I don’t know if this counts the last Galatasaray game) in 93 matches. The averages are .548 and .591 assists.

A couple of things can be said at this point – firstly, that his adaptation to a radically different style of football was nearly instant, and did not result in a loss of form. That, to me, is a point in favor of his greatness. Next, he managed to win over a demanding torcida to the extent that he is now a unanimity – a maximum idol – and universal recognition by even the media as the best player in the league. To do that in two years is extremely hard, particularly for a foreign player and doubly so for it being in Turkey.

Here are some of Alex has to say regarding his career at Fenerbahçe:

“Existem diferenças em um clássico como Fenerbahçe e Galatasaray para um Palmeiras e Corinthians, por exemplo?”
“Alex: As diferenças básicas são duas. No Corinthians e Palmeiras tem muito futebol e nem tanta paixão. Os torcedores brasileiros podem achar que estou falando uma loucura, com um parafuso a menos, mas comparado com o povo turco a paixão é muito pequena. Mas aqui o jogo é muito ruim de se assistir porque o clássico é de muita pegada, muito duro, com muita falta e pouca técnica.”

“Seus números no Fenerbahçe impressionam. Já acha que se tornou um dos maiores ídolos da história do clube?”
“Alex: Não sei. Porque preciso de tradutor para entender tudo o que acontece. E como ele é novo, muita coisa não consegue me passar. Mas na história recente do Fenerbahçe, alguns estrangeiros passaram por aqui e não ganharam tantos títulos ou tiveram números tão bons, mas ganharam um carinho muito grande da torcida. Então acredito que quando eu sair a lembrança em relação a mim será boa porque tenho feito bons jogos.”

“Muitos jogadores evoluem no futebol europeu. Isso ocorreu com você também?
“Alex: Na parte tática, sem dúvida. É diferente em relação ao Brasil. Mas na parte técnica e física é igual. Não tem muita diferença. Eles valorizam mais a marcação, ajudar a defesa, uma composição tática. Isso eu melhorei no meu futebol.”

“No Fenerbahçe, você é o goleador, líder de assistências, grande ídolo da torcida. Mas a mídia fala pouco do futebol turco no Brasil. Você se arrepende de ter ido jogar num país sem tanta tradição?
“Alex: Não. Em nenhum momento. A proposta era muito boa. Demorei oito meses para aceitar e fechar o contrato. Pensei bem, conversei com várias pessoas na época. Inclusive com o Parreira, o Jairo Leal (auxiliar técnico da Seleção) e o Moraci Santanna (preparador físico da Seleção). Sabia que o Campeonato Turco não era tão divulgado como outros que acontecem aqui na Europa. Mas foi uma escolha que fiz. É um campeonato difícil, complicado. Os jogos são muito disputados.”

The statistics are phenomenal in and of themselves. They don’t establish the best player – but they reveal quite a lot. If Turkey were so much weaker, why would the numbers stay somewhat constant in relation to what they were in Brasil? Surely they’d shoot through the roof. Why would many of the foreign players not have achieved what he has achieved? A combined .53 goal, .56 assist average over 220 games in both the Turkish and Brasilian leagues is incredible, and it proves if anything he is a consistent performer (since we don’t see Alex scoring or creating 10 goals in one game and “sleeping” in the other 9). Like I told you previously – produce counter examples and I will stop bandying these statistics about. Subjectively, the things this player continues to do are also incredible, you need only look at the video to confirm it. The fact that it was done on Turkish and not Italian soil does not diminish the skill required. See Alex’s own comments above -- Turkish football is not the “mamão com açucar” you seem to be implying.

Quite predictably, we draw different conclusions from the same numbers. What I realize when looking at this similarity is that given roughly the same number of games, top scorers tend to score close to the same number of goals. This does not mean the skill is equal, but rather, that there is only so much time in a football game and teams that are well organized tactically and physically well prepared tend to limit scoring opportunities to a certain number. You could throw the 1996 Ronaldo in the Turkish league and it would be incredibly hard to average more than a goal per game. The difficulty in scoring, particularly given the importance and emphasis on defending / marcação, is not quite as vast as you would suggest. Goals in various leagues should be given different weight depending on the quality of the league (this is done with most continental top scorer awards), for example – someone that scores 40 goals in Italy in a season has achieved more than someone who does the same in Turkey. At the same time, to draw the conclusion that this same person, on the same form, would be able to score 60 in Turkey is flat wrong. Likewise, you can’t assume the reverse: that if someone scores 20 in Turkey they would score only 10 or 5 in Italy. You can make determinations about a person’s technique from the sorts of goals they are scoring… and the degree of difficulty in Alex’s strikes tends to be very high.

That is all I want as well. If he is going to be a titular, he is going to have to win that on his own merit. I think he’s capable of it, but only he can do this part. It would be wrong to interfere in the actual escalação of the team… putting pressure on Parreira to remember Alex’s achievements and take him to the cup, however, is fair game.

It may have been a stretch… but I think that you are holding onto the fallacious view that to prove their worth, a footballer has to play in Europe’s top leagues and perform there. I cannot disagree more with this. It’s a useful measure, to be sure, particularly since it shows a player’s adaptability… and the overall technical level is higher, but Alex’s achievements at your club require no comparison because they are great and unique in and of themselves. Upon witnessing his brilliance it was not necessary to hold him up against the sun to determine which was brighter. You may disagree with me, but I find it all the more surprising given that you saw it in person. In all my time following football... I have never seen anything quite like it.

I think that’s a simplistic argument. Sure, you may possess a stronger emotional connection to the team than I do (it is still my second favorite in Brasil), but I admire great football no matter where it is being played. I was talking about this earlier in relation to Rivaldo and the 1996 campeão Paulista Palmeiras. I despise Palmeiras… but I loved that team. Don’t ask me to explain it beyond that…

I envy you. Since I wasn’t living in Brasil at the time, I only had the fortune of seeing one Cruzeiro game that year in person… the 3-2 victory over Inter. I saw every one that was shown on TV (quite a few) and often found myself listening on Itatiaia quite frequently.

I am not suggesting that I value it more, or that you don’t value it enough. That was your first titulo Brasileiro, to top off a year where you won everything. I have no idea what that feels like… I apologize if I gave you a contrary impression. What I am saying is that you can’t lower your opinion of Alex because he did what all of that in Brasil and with your team… that isn’t being realistic… it’s false compensation. When you discount statistics that were roughly at the same level in Brasil as they are in Turkey, you seem to imply a lower opinion of his achievements. While I agree that it is easy to let your emotions cloud your vision, it doesn’t mean that you can’t recognize greatness beyond comparison through them. For example, I became incredibly attached to the 2002 Corinthians team in a way that I didn’t to the one that won last year, even though the one from last year was much better (at least in the Brasileiro). As a supporter of another team, I am telling you that your high opinion of Alex’s performance was not exaggerated by your fandom… I am sure you can find objective Atleticanos that will tell you the same (that is, if they can stop frothing at the mouth long enough to utter a comprehensible phrase).

I don’t think he has a low opinion of Kaka or believes that his game has not improved with his experience… he even says that he’s learned to pass the ball more. What I think he is saying is that Kaka was great before he moved to Italy… it wasn’t his experience in Italian football (no matter what the Europeans think) that made him the player he is. He simply got a bigger stage and a more effective marketing machine behind him.

Would you hold the same opinion if Alex were doing what he is doing at Fener at say… a Villareal? Kaka may have improved, and for all I know he may be more of a complete package (better physical characteristics, etc) but Alex is still better IMO. Alex is an alien… Kaka is a mere human.

But that is precisely the point I am trying to make. Different people value different things… some things tend to get you more plaudits than others. Beating 3 defenders on the way to a goal almost always is going to get you more recognition than superb positioning that allows you to make yet another of your trademark through passes… but what is the end result?

I realize that there is an incredible amount of subjectivity in this… hence my desire to back it up with some statistics. For my part, I value and prefer Alex’s skillset to Kaka’s and I think it’s a greater indication of footballing talent. I may totally burn myself on this one… but I am willing to go out on a limb and say that in the future, Alex would make a better manager than Kaka as well.

What did you think of this particular one?

I think Kaka is a better striker than Alex… no question about it. However, Alex is the better midfielder, the better playmaker, and the better player IMO.

Good videos.

I've always been impressed by how elegantly he strikes that ball... that is unique IMO and is one of the reasons I will probably come to consider him a craque. The ball seems to fly differently through the air when he hits it. Actually... I look at this as a sort of signature that differentiates you from other players.

Everything about the videos scream "Striker" not midfielder. I think he only plays a midfield role because he is so fast. I'd be more likely to consider him a craque deep-lying striker than a craque midfielder.

I probably am and am willing to concede as much. His performance against Argentina in the Confed Cup final almost pushed him over the edge for me. I hope that he decides to prove his greatness during this WC.

Games are not won with reputation. If they were, Milan would have won… and surely the majority of the Intercontinental Cups / World Club Championships would be sitting on European shelves – including the one that the Bambis now have. The fact of the matter is that they aren’t.

I’d prefer that he was in Brasil… actually, I’d prefer that most of our craques were in Brasil, but that’s another matter. Check out tpmazembe’s guestbook. We were having a good discussion about this there a few weeks ago and it seems to have died out.

On the other hand, I respect him as a player and as a person. He has a perfect right to play wherever he wants.

So do I. You don’t flush three years of preparation down the toilet over personal preferences, but likewise, you don’t ignore 3 years of outstanding achievements for the same reasons.

Definitely. Seeing the video really crystallized my desire to try to help him… and that is the reason I am making such a fuss about this now.

I think he should start, but only in the current formation. But I’d like to see a Edmilson waiting in the wings and a Gilberto Silva shadowing Emerson.

 

You definately shouldn't be stoned for your opinions, if anything, you should be stoned for your choice in team to support.

Joking aside, I think that this has been a great exercise for the reasons you mentioned. I have't been as involved (actually, I need to get around to doing the remaining profiles and my tactics) lately, but it's had much to do with my little Alex campaign. Incidentally, that shouldn't hurt you much with the judges.

 

This has definately lost steam.

My suggestion: set a deadline.

I am probably not going to do it until my back is to the wall... I've been so busy with the Alex campaign.

 

bump...

 

Let's set a deadline.