Playing at the USHOF I got word from the USHOF about their current stadium (they do have one) which has bleacher style seating with a maximum of about 2,500 to 3,000 spectators. So we are talking about a typical high school style stadium. However, on their drawing boards is a 5,000-6,000 seat stadium (I guess think of the Charleston Battery’s Blackbaud Stadium http://www.charlestonbattery.com/stadium_overview.asp), but that's a capital fund drive away. Also, the USHOF have had discussions about hosting USOC games but not necessarily the final.
So far of the ideas I've heard there have been a couple that stand out. 1. No league/cup combo games in lower leagues. 2. Get to a 32 or 64 team tournament and then make it single elimination. (Use seeding to determine home field). 3. Use pre-set play dates. Everyone plays Open Cup games on certain days, if you're out of the tournament then you get a day off. 4. Have a preset host for the final (HDC, Crew Stadium). Let it rotate year to year similar to MLS Cup. 5. Have more games shown on FSW. There should at least be a quarterfinal game, the two semi-finals and the final. (Now we have 1 semi & the final). Something I would like to add to this is that the final should be played on a weekend. This Wednesday night crap sucks. No one goes to week night league & playoff games, why would they expect people to go to Cup games. The best way for the tournament to get bigger is for the fans to push it there. MLS won't get bigger until fans support it and the same thing goes for the Cup. All of our ideas need to (and seem to) be things that will make it more "fan friendly". We need to get together a list of ideas and have them forwarded to USSF with the names of about 500 people and see what happens.
I've got a bunch a college (any number of sports) pocket schedules that list the dates of the post-season tournaments, whether the school makes it in or not. Can USSF require each MLS and USL club to include the Open Cup dates on their published schedules? USSF advertising the bracket on a monthly basis in USA Today isn't a bad idea. Other than that, I think most of these ideas require the horse to pull the cart. We have to get the fans to games before we can get sponsors for the cup. As long as MLS Cup is played at a neutral site, having the Open Cup final at a neutral site (with good odds that at least one team will end up in both) isn't that good an idea. I make this judgment based on college gridball fans... schools that reach a conference championship game, but don't get a juicy bowl matchup usually don't attend both, though soccer fans would be happy with the numbers that the bowls do get (the cups won't get those numbers, BTW).
EXACTLY!!! Why can't the final be played on a Saturday, maybe the weekend between the final MLS regular season games, and the first round of the playoffs? Wouldn't that draw fan interest and also give the USSF time to properly promote the game?
Couldn't agree with you more! The entire excitement of such a tourney is for smaller clubs to have a chance to play against the MLS sides. In reality the current format is just another MLS cup with the occassional A league team or D-3 team sprinkled in the round of 16 or Quarters. THROW ALL THE TEAMS INTO A HAT, AND HAVE A DRAW. If the Metros draw the Fire in in the round of 64 so be it.
Here was my idea on how the cup could easily be done to include all teams, based on this past season: http://lhusoc.tripod.com/usocfant.htm My plan would allow all the USASA state qualifiers into the first round. The key is to keep the first three rounds as regional as possible, to cut down travel costs for the smaller clubs. Re-draw for the National First round, and go from there.
http://lhusoc.tripod.com/usocfant.htm You have spent some time with this. With the full brackets it makes pools easier and maybe some more interest. This could be printed in the Freekick or handed out as a flier at the start of the season. Does any one know of any software (php) that could be used by someone who wanted to host a pool. Similar to what Yahoo! (a MLS sponsor) does for the NCAA?
Cut MLS Playoffs to a 4 team, 6 game round robin stage, with top team crowned as champion. Then have US Open Cup as ONLY CUP FINAL will never happen I know, but I can dream
5 steps to improving the USOC: 1. Get a Sponsor i.e. the Lamar Hunt US Open Cup present by Nike or Phillips or whatever, none of this Budweiser US Open Cup crap. 2. More $$$ for the winners (achieving step 1 makes step 2 easier) 3. 64 team knockout style tournament. 4. Better TV deal, FSW may be America's Soccer Channel but the channel still kinda sucks and has a smaller coverage area. 5. And the teams who host the games giving a damn about the game instead of how they usually market them.
I think that the problem may be the lack of interest by the fans. D.C. United has never had great crowds for these games. The games at Germantown are nice (although they are quite far for me I do enjoy the games there) since they tend to attract the diehard fans. It is hard to justify the expense of 50K for RFK when you are not guaranteed that 3-4k people will attend and then it looks like no one cares when viewed on TV. (I have to say I was surprised by the crowd at the swamp for the final considering all that was happening--nice showing Metro Fans) United has historically tried to make these games more popular, the casual fan does not understand the significance. The team and the more sophisticated fan need to share their passion for the USOC. I think that the organization in Chicago has always had the right attitude as did United in 1996. It was important that an MLS team did win in the USOC that year especially against established A-League teams to show that the MLS game is a notch above. It has been coming around to the rest of the league, the Columbus and NY/NJ fans also show greater interest in the USOC. Unless there are more butts in the seats, there will not be the TV or sponsorship you would like to see. TV and sponsorship can help to promote the Cup but it first needs to be sold to fans. There is a rich history to the game with teams such as the 1948 & 1950 champions Simpkins-Ford SC which featured Frank Borghi, Gino Pariani, Frank “Pee-wee” Wallace, and Charlie Colombo. These players were also on the US team that beat England in 1950.
I think one of the major issues you are all forgetting is the relationship between MLS and the USOC. MLS has it's own product they are trying to push, and they don't want their teams to have to play every round of a 64-team braket (6 games?), or have them eliminate each other in early rounds. MLS teams need a bye into later rounds because they are better, and you won't be able to convince them to travel to a PDL team in April to start the thing. The other thing you is that MLS won't want to give up their weekend game timeslots, so the Cup will stay midweek. Midweek cup matches are a great football tradition, so lets just get used to it and enjoy it. I'm not sure whether the final should be after MLScup (as it was the last few years, right?) or before, because it got a bit lost in the playoff jostling this time. But it would be better to have all the game dates set a bit farther in advance. I'd like to see the Cup be the only cup and the league be the only league, but that won't really happen. The USOC is lucky MLS enters the tournament (think NASL), and I think it was a great decision by MLS, and I think the key is to carry the cooperation further and let MLS share some of its (megre) media exposure with the USSF to promote this wonderful cup. That includes front offices, MLS HQ, etc. but also the fans, to explain to everybody they know how great this thing is. I've been to two USOC games this year (QF and F), and they were both sparsely attended, but great fun. Spread the word!
If there ever was a contradiction posted, that was it. If something is a tradition, then you wouldn't have to get used to it. I say you have to go the other direction, and make it look "more like a tournament" in terms of playdates. Not to play six games on six consective matchdates, but try this: The first two rounds, without MLS teams, can be played on any dates (midweek or weekend). Play the round-of-16 (were'nt these called the "octo-finals" during the WC?) and the quarterfinals in one week (Wed/Thur, and Sat/Sun). Yes, you would have to decide the QF game sites in advance, or even just go to four "regional" sites. (A fan would have to travel just once to see three games.) Even the PDL did a four-site format for the r-16 and QF games. A few weeks later, play the semi-finals and finals in the same manner. Maybe even a single "final four" site. MLS would give up two weekends, but would gain it back in playing on a more promotable format. Frankly, it was tough to follow the "one game this week," "one game two weeks later," "one game three weeks later" format. (BTW, one thing MLS could do is to incorporate the USOC matchdates into their distributed schedules: MYTHICAL MLS TEAM SCHEDULE (using the current format): Sat Aug 1 at Mythical-2 Sat Aug 8 home Mythical-3 Wed Aug 12 LHUSOC Round 3 Sat Aug 15 at Mythical-4 Sat Aug 22 home Mythical-5 Wed Aug 26 LHUSOC Round 4 Sat Aug 29 home Mythical-6 ...)
I like to say that everyone has wonderful ideas of promoting and or finding ways of fixing the US Open Cup. And there are somethings that have to be done to change it all. Here are some of my opinions that has to be done. #1 Television: Even though Fox Sports World is the official TV Soccer Network that has the exclusive rights to cover the tournament it started from 1 Quarterfinal, both Semis & the Final in 2000. Then expanded to one or two 2nd Round games, two Quarters, both semis & the final in 2001. They would cut the quarters and just concentrate on both Semis and the Final in 2002 and this season they only showed one Semi-Final and the Final. If Fox Sports World doesn't want to cover a good number of Open Cup Matches then let those clubs in any of the four leagues that has TV network contracts allow them to show there clubs in the US Open Cup. When it get's to the Quarterfinals all the way to the final, show them on Fox Sports World. If FSW doesn't want to show all the matches and decides just to show two Quarterfinals then allow those clubs who won't be shown on FSW who have their TV contracts to show the matches. If it has to be on Tape Delay that would be fine. I wouldn't have a problem with that as long as my club is seen or anyother clubs get their chance. #2 Promotion by the clubs and US Soccer: Everyone must work together in promoting this prestigious event that has been going on since 1914. As everyone knows and those who may have just started to follow this Cup tournament is the 3rd oldest Cup tournament in the World. US Soccer assumes that they are doing all they can, but unfortunatly word of mouth and their Web site to my mind is a poor judge of using the proper way of making this tournament flourish. US Soccer as well as the majority of the clubs that are members of US Soccer from the MLS to the USL to the USASA including the offices of US Soccer must do a much better job in spreading the gossip and the promotion of this great tournament. This is a real pathetic display of ignorance by everyone that is a part of this great tournament. And I am also going to add the blame to the people at Demosphere who stopped keeping up with their US Open Cup website at the Quarterfinals. If those from Demosphere are upset by my pointing the finger at them, I'm sorry, but you wanted to do this and I liked how you started it, but your finish was awful. Not keeping up with your jobs at the official website of the US Open Cup. I hope you will do better in the 2004 edition. I'm also going to put the finger of blame on the USASA. These people have tough jobs just running their respective regions schedules and tournaments as well as these individual state soccer associations. I understand that it's tough, but if you can see that there are alot of us who are interested in these seperate qualifiers that most of your clubs are fighting in to reach the 1st Round of the USOC, you would put in the same time and effort like you do every where else. #3 A proper cup: I have stressed this so many times and maybe it is becoming a headache. But if the Thomas R. Dewer Cup is officially retired then why keep adding the clubs on the mantle of the trophy. If US Soccer and the National Soccer Hall Of Fame still calls the Dewer Cup the official trophy of the US Open Cup Tournament then un-retire it and allow the players of today to lift it up with pride and joy. That they are able to say to their children and to those who go to the final and with their children, "LOOK AT THIS WONDERFUL TROPHY THAT EVERYONE IN US SOCCER IS FIGHTING FOR!" It's true that in the NHL the Stanley Cup it's self has never changed, only the metal base has. The original Cup is in the Hockey Hall Of Fame, but the 2nd one that looks exactly like the original is of course in use during the Stanley Cup Finals. I am sick and tired of seeing a glass, or crystal cup being used to celebrate a cup championship. Why is it that a silver plate or a silver shiled in Germany and the Netherlands stands the test of time and is called a Cup. Every year I watch the NHL awards or everytime I go to the Hockey Hall Of Fame website, I see these other trophies that represents the MVP of the league, Best defensmen, Best defensive forward, Regular season scoring champion, Best Head Coach, The most gentlemanly player award, Best Goaltender, best goals against average, the Champions of the Eastern Conference and the Champions of the Western Conference have wonderful beautiful trophies. And if anyone who has seen minor league hockey and I know that there are those who are Rhinos supporters, that go and see the Rochester Americans play for the Calder Cup Championship, that Cup is beautiful as well. I'm not saying that US Soccer should copy the same designs as these trophies for the US Open Cup, but at least make something look special that it's worth fighting for. To make people see what they are truly fighting for. It doesn't have to be as big as the Stanley Cup, it doesn't have to be as small as the World Cup, but at least make it look spectacular enough to say oooooooooooo & ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. #4 Too many chiefs not enough indians: This is also a problem because the United Soccer Leagues, MLS, USASA & US Soccer offices are in Seperate locations. US Soccer House is in Chicago. MLS is in New York City, The United Soccer Leagues are in Tampa, Florida and the USASA's offices I'm not sure, but one thing I will say is this. Everyone must come together and be in one big office building. Either everyone moves to Chicago, moves to NYC or moves to Tampa. Because it is pathetic how everyone is far away and they are fighting for the same cause to win the US Open Cup. US Soccer President: DR. Bob Contiguglia MLS Comissioner: Don Garber USL Soccer President: Francisco Marcos USASA Chairman: Mike Edwards Have a meeting to get yourselves together to make everything possible with the schedulers to make this tournament work. That's all I have to say about this. Good luck to those USASA clubs that are going thru Qualifying again. Let's hope that the 2004 edition of the US Open Cup will be as entertaining and as exciting as it has been in the 2003 tournament.
I also wanted to add that someone wanted this US Open Cup tourny to be fixed as a 64 club Knock out rounds like the English FA. The problems with this I think at the moment is that not every club in MLS nor in the USL leagues and USASA leagues have there own soccer stadiums and will they be allowed to do this. There are too many clubs in the PDL division of the USL. More than what it should be. You have 4 different conferences and they have between two conferences each. Right now A-League has two conferences with the East and West. Two Divisions with 5 clubs per division and with the new Edmonton club coming in it will be even. But still 15 US clubs and five Canadian clubs and those 5 are not qualifying for the US Open Cup. The Pro Select League D-3 four Regions. 3 of the 4 has three clubs but one has four clubs. PDL has four Conferences with two regions each Conference. Eastern, Central, Southern, Western Conferences. 15 East, 15 Central, 11 South, & 8 West. 10 MLS for now. 15 A-League 12 Pro Select League 53 PDL Clubs. -------------------- 90 clubs registered in US Soccer that are either MLS or United Soccer Leagues. These numbers don't count the countless others that are members of the US Adult Soccer Association. There are 5 Canadian Clubs in the A-League Toronto, Montreal, Calgary, Vancouver and now Edmonton. There are two PDL clubs in the West that are Canadian. Abbostford Rangers & Calgary Storm Prospects. So right now as most of you can see there would be too many dates unused and the leagues wouldn't get off the ground to start there seasons till about mid to late March early April. Only the USASA leagues will either wait for the new year or most of them to some of them have already started qualifying for the US Open Cup. Like the Region I Metro Washington D.C./Virginia Soccer association. The only way that the US Open Cup can be a 64 team konckout tourney is if the majority of the PDL clubs decided to move up into Division 3 and into the A-League. Also to remove the Canadian clubs and let them start their own Canada-USL. Not trying to say I want our Canadian neighbors to be kicked out of the USL, but this is just an opinion about the US Open Cup. US Soccer Clubs only. As we all know that MLS will re-expand to 12 clubs. San Diego will have the Owners of Chivas and there is going to be one more with them in 2005. So with the addition of two clubs in 2005 that means that the MLS will have 12 and that total will be 92 clubs registered with US Soccer. We must have balanced Leagues if there is to be any form of true Open Cup Competition and Promotion, Relegation. But for now what this tournament really needs is the healthy attitude of promotion, sponsership as well as Television time because if that doesn't happen first, then all of our ideas to change the way that teams participate in the US Open Cup, will go for not, and that will be a shame.
10 MLS for now. 15 A-League 12 Pro Select League 53 PDL Clubs. -------------------- 90 clubs registered in US Soccer that are either MLS or United Soccer Leagues. These numbers don't count the countless others that are members of the US Adult Soccer Association. -------------------------------------------------- I made a mistake in my calculations I admit that I said there is 12 clubs in the Pro Select League. I missed it by one club. 10 MLS for now 15 A-League 13 Pro Select League 53 PDL -------------------- 91 clubs registered in US Soccer. If and when San Diego & Cleveland come into the picture in 2005 that total will rise to 93 clubs registered in US Soccer. So that's the correction I have made to my arguments. Once again I must stress that as much as I would like to see the 64 Knockout brackets for US Open Cup. there are 27 clubs too many. Promotion, sponsership and Television are the main three things that this tournament needs to remain alive and stable. Without those major componants this tournament will die and cease to exist. And all of your ideas will go for nothing.
Good idea. Add these to the mix: ESPN is in Bristol, CT. FSW is in Los Angeles. NCAA is in Indianapolis. (They still have a say in how their players spend the summer.) CONCACAF is in ...? SUM is in ...NY? (USASA is in Lawrence, IN; BTW) An interesting thread would be what would an agenda of the meeting of all these bodies.
Posted by SJJ Good idea. Add these to the mix: ESPN is in Bristol, CT. FSW is in Los Angeles. NCAA is in Indianapolis. (They still have a say in how their players spend the summer.) CONCACAF is in ...? SUM is in ...NY? (USASA is in Lawrence, IN; BTW) An interesting thread would be what would an agenda of the meeting of all these bodies. -------------------------------------------------- Thanks for telling me where the USASA offices are. CONCACAF is in NYC at the Trump Building. SUM is part of MLS so it's going to be in NYC anyway. But unfortunatly CONCACAF has no part in how the US Open Cup is being run. This is a US Soccer Matter. CONCACAF oversees their confederation in the North Zone which is Canada, Mexico, USA. The Central American Zone. Honduras, Costa Rica, Guatemala & the Caribbean Zone like Jamaica, T&T. They must concentrate on their Confederational Club and National Team Tournaments like the Gold Cup, Olympic Qualifying, World Cup Qualifying and the Champions Cup Club tournament. The NCAA has no business in the US Open Cup, and in MLS. There business is the unpaid student athlets in Collegiant Athletics. So once a college player decides to give up his elligabillity and plays professional then the NCAA has no business informing that athlete what to do once he starts earning a paycheck. NCAA overseas the college games not the professional games. If a player who still has collegiant elligabillity and is earning a paycheck playing for let's say as an example your Mid-Michigan Bucks. That player is in violation of NCAA rules and must either return the money to the Bucks and go back to school, or end his elligabillty and stay with the Bucks. Fox Sports World is run by Murdoch, they get the money from US Soccer to show the US Open Cup Tournament. They also get money from the other European leagues to show their matches. ESPN/ABC is owned by Disney. So forget that. The real story is that US Soccer, MLS, USL has to come together and become one. That is the truth. These other people you justed mentioned and not including the USASA. They are useless and like I have said they have nothing to do with how the US Open Cup Tournament is being runned. With ESPN & Fox Sports World. Unfortunatly US Soccer and MLS are at the mercy of these sports broadcasting networks. ESPN cut their two matches a day on Saturdays to one and only at 4PM on ESPN 2. Fox Sports World only will show the Saturday night MLS game of the week and the US Open Cup. Your intentions are good SJJ but like I said these other orginazations have nothing to do with US Soccer business. The only time a Confederation has anything to do with one of their confederational members is when it's Champions League or Confederational Championship tournaments for Natioanl Teams. Also those two Sports Television Networks are what MLS & US Soccer needs to show the MLS. So right now it's a pain in the but.
If you have some proof of a college player getting money, say so. If not, don't use a line about "my" Mid-Michigan Bucks to try to offend me. Not sure where you were going with that. But, the idea was to get everyone together to see what can happen. Your post was a lot of "this can't happen because of..." and "they don't belong because of..." A bit testy overall.
SJJ I wasn't trying to get you upset. I was just using your club as an example. Just to explain the situation. The kick returner for Colorado University Jeremy Blooom. He is a professional skier. He has endorsment deals. He still goes to school and kicks for the football team. The NCAA has told him if he wants to continue to play college football he has to return the money for his endorsment deals. If he wanted to keep the endorsment money from sking then he had to give up playing college football. So that's what happened. Wasn't trying to piss you off. At the same time not acussing your club of any wrong doing. Just happened to decided to use your club in an example of why allowing the NCAA teams into US Open Cup play is not right. That's all.