I am curious since it has been brought up a lot on other threads...could a Wilt run 'other' soccer club in Chicago be a good 'minor league' training ground for Fire draft choices and youngsters to get experience? We have often spoke of a Fire USL like support team..how about the Sting?
I'n not a big Jason Davis fan, but there are some good things in here. http://ussoccerplayers.com/2016/01/peter-wilt-back-in-chicago.html?platform=hootsuite Per an announcement by Indy Eleven, Wit will be joining a group whose goal is to bring a North American Soccer League franchise to the city of Chicago. Further, the group hopes to build a 20,000-seat venue for their proposed team within the city limits. These are ambitious goals that say much about Wilt’s commitment to soccer in his hometown of Chicago, the NASL’s desire to stake a claim to major American markets, and the relative failures of the Chicago Fire.
"I want Chicago to have great soccer, to get things right.” Another one. http://worldsoccertalk.com/2016/01/...ts-to-start-at-soldier-field-says-peter-wilt/
There is a great typo. When asked if returning to Chicago was personal, he said, "There certainly is an inch that I needed scratched." Too much information, Peter. [emoji6] You are selling yourself a bit short.
As a day one STH, I respect Peter for everything he did with the Fire. BUT - a leading question for you all...does anyone think adding another soccer club to the Chicago market, will improve the Fire's chances of raising the MLS Cup? and for the sake of argument, assume we have the right owner, organization, and academy program... Without promotion\relegation, or another mechanism to allow both teams to "compete" - how is this not consumer cannibalism, and initiating some kind of soccer market death spiral for Chicago footy??!
If the soccer dies in Chicago because 4000 people decide to go to Sting games instead of watching another Fire "rebuild," it was already dead beforehand. If an NASL franchise is a threat to "Chicago Footy" the problem isn't the NASL, it's the damage Andy has done to "Chicago Footy" all by himself.
A huge soccer market with one team. The NYC area this year supported three teams pretty decently, including one NASL team. LA will have two and will do just fine. Markets like Columbus are a quarter the size of Chicago, and can easily support a team. There is plenty of room for two teams in Chicago, and a properly run Fire would thrive with another team in the area. For the sake of argument, you should ask what will become of the Fire with the actual owner, organization and academy program that you have.
To answer this specific question, I will say, "yes." Andy isn't going to do jack shit to win with the status quo. A little healthy competition might actually make him do what he is not inclined to do. Improve his club and his team. I don't think the Fire will ever win anything with Andy, but another team in town will improve his chances.
As a day one STH, I fear that the Fire are pretty much lost. I have renewed each year and (has been discussed endlessly), I wonder why I continue each year. No, and that is not the point at all. The Sting (as plans are shaping up) will not be affiliated with the Fire and will have NO bearing on what the Fire do, or as has been the case the past 8 years, not do. If we had the "right owner, organization, and academy program" there would NO discussion about the Sting reviving and playing in Chicago. Edit: To be less snarky about it. There is a possibility that having the Sting in town, garnering some of the fans (current and former) of the Fire and garnering a hell of a lot of attention, might spur Andrew Hauptman into caring for the team, improving the team and, thus, improving our chances of winning an MLS Cup again. You lose ALL credibility by even mentioning promotion and relegation. The Sting will not "compete" with the Fire, except for our money and, possibility, loyalty. They could meet in the US Open Cup, I suppose. It is no more cannibalism than the Red Stars are at the moment. Also, you maintain your lost credibility by using the term "footy".
I was asked this question by someone else who is completely outside of this entire situation (He's not really a soccer fan, he just heard about this stuff and got me on a rant). I said it means that the Fire would have to step up, but they won't get too much diaspora of the fans currently going to games. But that didn't involve this hypothetical involving an "No-Andy" situation. I think in the long-run it would eventually promote pro/rel, but it would definitely make one of the two leagues struggle. This would mostly mean that NASL would lose if you take the leagues as a whole, but the fact that someone would lose is troubling. This would definitely lead to a whole new argument for pro/rel, but I think the fans have already said they want it. It's all on the owners. And the owners want their money. NASL wants to be recognized as the premier American league and we all know why. A player wants to go to a "top-tier club" instead of the "second-tier champions". That's how the Fire can still "attract" big players (hypothetically) even though we're s***. We're still a top-tier club this season after finishing 20th out of 20. I talked about this to a few people inside the league (because somehow I find my way into conversations) and they also say that MLS needs to get into a pro/rel system in order to truly have meaningful competition, but the problem is that it makes owners' investments more risky. Andy wouldn't be able to just sit on top of the Fire for 10 years; he'd have been thrown off the bull by 2011. Toronto FC would've probably never made the play-offs because they would be mulling around the second division after their dismal debut. So to answer the question: Realisticly I think this will help the Fire and in turn Chicago "footy". The Fire is just in the bigger league and I think more people will care when a Chicago team wins against a team with Gerrard, Cole, and Dos Santos than a Chicago team beating a team with Adu, Mwanga, and Nanchoff. MLS will crush the NASL for years to come and there's nothing they can really do about it. But within your hypothetical, I think that a similar thing might happen, but the Sting wouldn't even have been given a chance. Be honest, if the Fire were good, like consistently in the playoffs and constantly making runs for the cup (sometimes successfully), would you actually care about the Sting's return? You might be happy that they bring back a little nostalgia, but you probably won't give them any thought. After hearing that Wilt was involved you might commit yourself to going to a few games because you want to support him and Chicago soccer in general, but your serious team would be the Fire. The Sting have a chance to sneak up on the Fire and be huge. Honestly, I wouldn't be as surprised as everyone else if they pick up a few Big-name recognizable players and tear up the NASL. But that might actually wreck the fabric of Chicago soccer. The NASL isn't going to last for long, so if Chicago has a weak MLS team, but a loaded NASL team; the walls are going to start crumbling down. The best move then would be to move them into MLS, but that would basically phase out the Fire, who will quietly die in their sleep in a back alley off of Harlem. This didn't make the city's soccer community any stronger. This would leave many people stranded. It would be like if the Wolves were announced as an expansion team in the NHL during the dark years. The struggling team already in the city would lose almost all of their fans, save for a loyal few, and the new team may not be able to keep up with the brand new climate. After that rant, this is my decision: The best thing for Chicago soccer is if the Sting do well enough to scare Andy, but not do too well so that they overtake the Fire in a few years. Then, the NASL finally give-up and attempt a merger with MLS and the USSF decide that shouldn't be necessary and makes them the second division. This would cause a whole lot of turmoil up top in the owners' boxes with a lot of selling off (Andy is one of the likely sellers), but I think that US Soccer as a whole is strong enough now that the American investment groups buying teams overseas would see the potential opportunity (and would be fine with the possible risk) in buying American. This leads to MLS becoming more and more of a true world power in soccer. That also means Chicago Soccer as well. Most likely scenario: Everyone on these boards go to a Sting game, but find out that the level of play is horrible and the only things they connect with about the team is the GM and the badge. A lot of ruined childhoods and even more bitterness. Andy eventually sells and our new owners actually care about the investment which means the Fire gets good again naturally and we have an MLS Cup by 2026. The Sting slips down to obscurity and the NASL lowers their standards even further, maybe just giving up and folding.
full snark, excellent! appreciate your comments, but I never said Peter Wilt's venture would be affiliated with the Fire, just commenting on the idea of introducing another pro soccer team, albeit minor league, into a market the Fire hold tenuously. In a world with pro\rel, or even without and both teams in the same league, there's direct competition and healthy one at that. This is completely different than a 2nd MLS team coming in. They're offering competing products, on different platforms - which I think would further diminish the Fire's relevance. And, duh, our shitty owner, org, and pay-for-play joke of an "academy" has already done a great job at that already...but still.
I aim to please! To put this discussion to rest, I think everyone here pretty much agrees that the only reason that there are even discussions about the Sting is that we have an awful owner of the Fire, the Fire have sucked royally for 8 years and nobody actually enjoys going to the Bridgeview. If the Fire were great-no Sting talk. If the Fire had a great owner-no Sting talk. If the Fire played in their own stadium in Chicago-(probably) no Sting talk. The Fire only have themselves to blame. They treat us as "consumers" not as fans, members of a club, etc. Fine, treat us as consumers or "customers" and we will take our custom elsewhere if there are viable alternatives.
You pair the Red Stars with the Sting in the city, One would think Andy would be in trouble. The Fire's fan base isn't the die hards or soccer fans truly interested in the game; it's the soccer clubs and drunk bra's from Lincoln Park who want to stand in Section 8.
The Fire and the hypothetical Sting will have two different fan bases. If Wilt does it right, the hypothetical Sting - despite being the 'lower' league and theoretically the worse level of play - will attract actual soccer fans who know and love the game. The Fire will still attract the people they're trying to attract - eventers who want to go to an "event" and don't necessarily know or care about the game itself. This includes the kids who want to go on a cheap party bus, get drunk, waive flags and take selfies. The Fire will also attract parents desperate for a few hours break from their kids that doesn't cost as much as a 'real' sporting event. I'm not sure who will still buy Fire season tickets since the drunks and the parents aren't necessarily the types that you'd think would plunk down for a whole season so we could get a case where the hypothetical Sting have fewer overall fans but just as many or even more STHs which is good economics for the hypothetical Sting.
All due respect to Jiggly, but this is exactly right. The level of play is not that important to real fans. Hell, all of us MLS fans have been beating this back for years. MLS is no where near the quality of top leagues, but for the first 10 years, that didn't matter to us. Run the club right and true supporters will join up. Fire or Sting.
I partially agree. I think the level of play does matter. You are correct that MLS is no where near the quality of top leagues. It is, however, far beyond what it was in the "early years". As for the first 10 years, it did matter to us. The point is, that the first 10 years, the level play by the Fire was way better than most MLS teams. Of course, that is no longer the case, since MLS passed the Fire by in about 2008-2009 (hmmm? What happened just before that time that could have influenced this course of events?) If the Sting do launch and the level play sucks, they will lose out, as many of the "real fans" will lose interest, just like with they did with the Fire. The difference, of course, is Peter Wilt's involvement. With the Fire (as we all know), the play on the field sucks, the roster sucks, the Front Office sucks, and the FO treats us as "customers". I don't see these things happening with Peter Wilt in charge (especially the last three-PW cannot control play on the field). Personally, my favorite thing about the potentiality of the Sting coming back to Chicago is that the Fire have taken us "real fans" and season ticket holders (who aren't club seat holders) for granted for so long. We are treated like customers. Fine, we will act like customers and go elsewhere. It could be a huge backlash against Mr. Andrew Hauptman.
[/tinfoil hat] What if this is a secret ploy by MLS behind the scenes to bring back the Sting to ignite a rivalry and interest? [/tinfoil hat]
I'm not concerned with "lack of quality of play" have you seen The Fire since 07? The "lack of quality" will be made up with a sense of great community/fan interaction/the power of Wilt. Not to mention tailgates and the supporters will be more intimate because you won't have as many douchebro's as S8 currently has.
Regarding pro/rel, I completely appreciate why MLS owners would be opposed to it, but I think it could happen down the road when the real TV money starts rolling in. I envision something akin to the J-League where there are really just two divisions. So theoretically Hauptmam could just sit at the bottom of MLS2, but the loss to the individual owner would be lessened by large shared TV revenue.
PRO/Releg is never going to happen because the MLS owners themselves would have to vote for it and what owner is going to risk that his team would go down and lose their worth?