I thought id start this thread to try and calm myself down after this first half. 4-1!!!!!!! Against a team thats going to the B, we have been humiliated by so many equipo chicos this torneo its really getting embarrassing now. Its time that bianchi took a bit of criticism too now, i dont know any boca fan of sound mind that would let caruzzo or cellay anywhere near the first team, yet bianchi plays them every game. I know we have injuries. But id rather play a youth player than any of those two. And what the ******** was cellay doing takng a free kick? What the hell are they playng at? I really dont know where we go from here. As much as it hurts to say it, i think bianchi will quit before the end of the season if it continues like this.
It seems to me that Bianchi has completely disregarded the torneo local. This has been an abject disaster. I questioned him from the get go for the way he was tinkering so much with the lineup. I think he's just about fielded a different one every week, sometimes with half the team changed from one week to the other. I understand about getting the feel for a new team, but I honestly think he got a bit too cute. For that, he deserves some heat.
I think its quite disrespectful to just throw away the torneo just to concentrate on the copa, and stupid, because realistically we arent going to win it. This game could quite easily end up being lost by a 6 or 7 goal margin.
I don't see Bianchi making it 'til the end of the year. This beyond embarrassing! I guess they'll at least have something to talk about when they go back to la B.
And now its 5-1. Im not bothered how many they score now, the more they score the more asses will get kicked hopefully.
Well I wouldn't say Bianchi completely disregarded the tournament: players like Clemente, Burdisso, Sanchez Mino, Martinez, and Silva are habitual starters, while other first team players (not starters) like Ustari, Acosta, Colazo, Caruzzo, etc. also tend to play often. It's not like he's just putting pibes. The majority of the players are first team players, and in some of the other games he even used the likes of Riquelme, Erviti, Ledesma, Orion, etc. I think saying you guys "disregarded" the tournament is the easy way out. The truth is, as much as it may be hard to admit, you guys are simply going through a bad moment. It's been evident for a while that this team simply isn't up to the standards of past Boca teams, hence why I thought Falcioni was often unjustly criticized for his good work. Even in the Copa you guys were lucky to advance.. had a couple things been different, you guys would have been eliminated in the first round AND in one of the last places in the the torneo. But I'll get out of here.. I'm not trying to talk shit or make fun of you guys. Just explaining how I see the situation from an unbiased standpoint.
I'm glad I spent six hours on a bicycle today instead of watching this game. In retrospect 104 miles and cramps in both legs was a better way to spend the afternoon. I don't think Bianchi has outright disregarded the torneo local but it's been made pretty clear that with the amount of changes from one week to the next that he's tinkering (whether it's working is a different story...) Compare our line-ups in the torneo to the Copa and you'll see much more consistency in his selections for the Copa. A lot needs to happen and it needs to happen quickly. Falcioni may deserve some credit but regardless of what results he got I simply was never a fan of his outlook of the game. Until we address the issues at the back (minus Orion) as well as finally finding a proper replacement for Seba (yeah he's missed) this torneo will stay ugly.
Fair play to locoxriver for not rubbing it in. The worrying thing is, is that we have tried every single combination and the result os the same every time. Its easy to say that the players arent good enough. Granted, they arent up to the standard of previous boca teams, but they are better than this. There is no excuse for such schoolboy defending and dare isay it lack of effort. We only seem to put the effort in when we find ourselves in a hole. I have no idea what the back line should be. Its an enigma. If you remember how awful insaurralde was untl schiavi came back, so maybe the players are there, we justhavent found the right pairing yet.
EL COMUNICADO DE BIANCHI A TRAVÉS DE LA PRENSA DEL CLUB A todos los hinchas de Boca les pido disculpas por esta derrota que no se merecen. Soy el primer responsable y lo asumo totalmente. Al equipo y a mí nos da vergüenza cómo fuimos derrotados porque estos resultados no sólo duelen sino que nos obliga a replantear muchas cosas. A partir de ahora enfocaremos nuestras fuerzas en la Copa Libertadores pero también sabemos muy bien, que el equipo que salga al campo de juego cada domingo, estará dispuesto a dar todo lo que tiene para defender como corresponde los colores de Boca Juniors. Hoy más que nunca, las partes que componen el mundo boquense, tenemos que estar unidos para mantener el protagonismo que Boca merece. Carlos Bianchi
My translation: To all Boca fans I apologize for this defeat that you do not deserve. I am the first responsible party and I fully accept it. The team and I were embarrassed with the way we lost because these results are not only painful but also force us to rethink many things. From now on we will focus our efforts on the Libertadores Cup, but we also know very well that the team that comes out on the field every Sunday will be willing to give everything it has to properly defend the colors of Boca Juniors. Today more than ever the parts that make up Boca's world must be united to be able to retain the prominent role that Boca deserves. Carlos Bianchi.
I also won't rub it in. I am not a bianchi fan. His football is not to my liking. However, I am shocked as to what is happening at Boca. I know you boca fans don't falcioni, but he at least organized your defense. I have no idea what is going with Bianchi. He has two more weeks to figure things out. Good luck And also, he is being paid 3 million USD at the blue rate. The least he could do is write some note. What he should really do, is repay all the boca fans that travelled across the country to see the team play. It may be that the libertadores is your priority, but you don't see the argentine teams in the copa embarrassing themselves like that.
By the way... Just the fact that you're playing the copa doesn't mean you can't win the torneo local. My team for example, won both in the same year....
I'm glad you guys aren't freaking out about this, keeping a level head and all. It's all just swings and roundabouts so to speak. One team wins a Libertadores a year, and two win local torneos. So it's not the year, Worse things have happened. They should work on regrouping quick though because they're gonna need to win the next tournament to play in Libertadores 2014, or the more long winded Copa Argentina/Sudamericana top finish. I know they're not done yet but is this team really Libertadores champions material? Like I said its good you guys are level headed.
I don't think that saying Bianchi disregarded the torneo local is a cop out. I'm not saying that he didn't want to win, but I think he's been far too experimental than necessary. Again, I understand that the results weren't there, but I believe one week, I counted 5/6 changes to the starting lineup over the previous week. I understand trying out new things, but I also am of the mind that players can't go out with the thought in their minds that if they have one sub-par match, they are out of there. As to the team not being up to par talent-wise, I don't buy that so much either. This is not a team ALL THAT DIFFERENT from the undefeated campaign. I understand we've lost some parts, but a team that has Martinez, Silva, Roman, Sanchez Mino, and even a Viatri simply has not produced enough on offense. Yeah, the defense has been a mess, but the number of goals they've given up (Yes, largely because of Orion and of course minus yesterday) is not commensurate with their place on the table. Falcioni did catch a bad break, but it had nothing to do with his ability as a coach. It was just not a good fit for Boca, even with all the success...and he deserves all the credit in the world for that. In the end, the question has to be asked if Bianchi still got it. That is more than fair. With that in mind, we must also keep in mind that it has not even been half a campaign yet. And I don't care what happens going forward, I wouldn't touch him for the rest of this campaign. He has to be given a chance to mold this team in his fashion. I don't know that he has the ingredients he feels ideal just yet.
Certainly the last result is shocking, but I think if you look at the whole situation it's not that surprising. It's a combination of playing two tournaments, change of personnel, lots of injuries, veterans who are losing it, youngsters who are not quite there yet, and in general players who've not responded as expected. Obviously the biggest problem is the defense. We lost both central defenders. Schiavi may have been old and slow but he was bringing so many intangibles to the table. He is sorely missed. Insaurralde I feel was underrated, he may be a perennial "ranking rústico" candidate, but he did bring in a lot as well. Burdisso has good attributes, but the jury is still out, and lets not forget that before coming to Boca he was playing in la B. Caruzzo has been a dissapointment, and Chiqui has been hurt so it's hard to say what he can bring. I think there's a chance that the dupla Burdisso-Chiqui will work if they get some time together, but that still remains to be seen. The fullbacks are also a problem, Clemente is getting older and nobody else stepped up. I feel it's a waste of talent to play a creative player like Sanchez Mino on defense, but perhaps it has to come to that again. It worked last year. Also, Somoza is obviously past it, and there hasn't been a good replacement as defensive mid. Both Ribair and Erbes have been getting injured so there's been no stability at the position. This compounds the problems of central defense. I completely and absolutely disagree with you about Bianchi and Falcioni. While Falcioni has proven to be a good Xs and Os coach -although obviously not nearly as much as Bianchi has- I am convinced that he is not a big club coach. He showed us at Boca that he couldn't handle the big time pressure. He couldn't handle the players, the fans or the media. I can garantee you that if this game happened under Falcioni it would be a huge quilombo right now, and everybody would be panicking and the media would be having a field day. Remember when Boca lost in Venezuela? He got in a fight with the players, with the media, with the fans. Contrast that to Bianchi. They had a horrible start and now they are embarrassed in San Juan. He assumes the blame, he writes a letter to the fans, nothing brilliant, but a simple apology and promise of commitment. He hasn't lost the players in spite of the horrible start, and even the a-holes in the media have been relatively well handled given the situation. Also, Bianchi is not stubborn like Falcioni. When he came he said Blandi wasn't in his plans. But he's man enough to change his mind, and I'd say if it wasn't for Blandi probably Boca wouldn't be in the second round of Libertadores. You may not like him, but give some credit to El Virrey. Well, personally I am freaking out a bit. As you probably know as a gashina who had to deal with unexpected adversity in recent times, we're not used to this shit as fans of a big club. But I guess Bianchi built a lot of goodwill with all his successes in the past so now he's cashing in on it to some extent. It's a bit easier to forgive. Obviously Boca right now is not championship material in any tournament, let alone Copa Libertadores. Offensively I'm not too worried, there's good talent here, and I think they can do the job. I never count out a team with Riquelme, he's an all time great. Burrito also a great player, maybe not all-time but great in this era. And while at the striker position Silva and Viatri have been dissapointing, Blandi has stepped up. Plus Boca has other players in midfield and defense who have proven capable of scoring goals. The problem is the defense. Even if they get past the injuries and find some stability, there's still a huge question mark about whether these players are able to do it. Right now I have to say the answer is no. Bianchi will have to work a miracle.
Whilst we are on the subject of falcioni, he must be really laughing his head off right now. After how he was hounded out of the club, it has actually got worse since he left. Thats not to say i think falcioni is the better manager, i know we made the right decision, we just need time for bianchi to sort it out, if anyone can, its him. I dont agree with the policy of changing the teami every game, winning breeds success, if you havent got the winning mentality you will struggle whatever the competition. Its okay saying that we are only at the halfway stage of the torneo, but its not the amount of games we are losing that is worrying, its the way we are losing them. If we actually tried to retain possession we might have a chance, how ofter did we even put two or three passes together last night?