I apologize if this sentiment has been repeated since i don't read DCU forum too often. Scholes is decent for ManU in linking midfield and attack. Without Scholes ManU's offense suffers. Scholes very frequently will sneak into the penalty box and become a 2nd or 3rd forward. But I think what makes Scholes so dangerous is his off the ball run. In this tournament, Convey really reminds me of Paul Scholes. The style is very similar. Scholes is not really a creative or flare player at least in my opinion, but rather a precision player with good vision. I think Convey is exactly the same. Although he doesn't play like the Brazillians, he shows good vision and precision in his tournament. His workrate is tremendous. Sometimes he makes a run inside the box and the the very next minute he is in his own penalty stopping a through ball or cross. If Convey can develop a hard shot from outside the 18, then their style would almost be identical. I think one reason Convey didn't perform as well for DCU as national team is that his role in DCU is too rigid. Convey much more capable than just providing the team with width. The insistance of having Etcheverry prevents Convey's from reaching his full potential. Hudson said Convey is best on left wing, but I think he is wrong on this one. It's easier for him to develop like Paul Scholes with what he is already got then try to develop flair, dribbling, and crosses which are some of the attributes needed on the wings.
I hadn't thought of that, but I think it's a pretty good comparison. Bobby will need to develop that hard outside shot and maybe put on a little bit more muscle, but both of those things will develop as he gets older.
I do not think there is any doubt Bobby is a great player. Bruce Arena thinks so. His play so far at U-20 Cup has reportedly been outstanding. Somebody in the EPL thought he was decent. It is truly sad what happened to him at DCU under Hudson. Bobby will show what he is truly like as a player under a new coach at DCU next year. And I agree about your Scholes comparison, and that he needs to add muscle.
I cannot agree that Convey is the American Paul Scholes. The closest thing the US has to a Paul Scholes type player is Clint Mathis, if Clint is on. Convey is not nearly the finisher that Scholes is, but then again, he is young. If I had to compare Convey to a player on a club in Europe, I would say he is most similar to John O'Brien. Solid foot skills, vision, and the versatility to play anywhere in the midfield or as a wing back. Although Convey has recently (running the show in the UAE) been more offensively minded and efficient than O'Brien is required to be, it is a real stretch to say Convey is in Scholes' class at the moment. It will be a joy to see Convey and O'Brien on the field together, if they are both healthy, in Germany'06.
If you are blaming Hudson/Trask for Convey's performance, or lack thereof, for DC United, your eyes are most surely brown. It seems to me that you have failed to acknowledge the motivation Ray/John gave to Convey to improve his defensive play. He has made some very good defensive contributions after DC United strongly urged him to do so. Bruce then even saw fit to try him at left back because of his good wing play with United. Convey = Scholes???? Puhleeeeze. GM
Hudson and Trask definitely raised Bobby's all around game by adding some defensive bite to it. I think they had made up their minds about where he should play at the beginning and needed to get more defense out of him so they worked on that. The problem with the Hudson/Trask vision for Convey's role was that they refused to let it change over the course of 2 seasons, and in that respect it was a shame for Convey. Tom, have you given up on Bobby? He hasn't given up on us.
Seems to me that DC tried Bobby in a number of different roles but that his production remained disappointingly low. I haven't given up on Convey, or on Stewart for that matter -- but we've got to get some effing production out of them! After Bobby's poor showing at the end of the season, on what do you base your assertion that he's not given up on us? GM
Seems to me that Bobby was usually handicapped whenever Marco was on the field, as Marco tended to try and run everything out there - and slowly, at that. How many times did we see Bobby out alone on the flank waving frantically for Marco to pass the damn ball?
Convey & Hudson Amazingly (to me), Bobby Convey is 2 good games away from being a serious contender to win the Golden Ball award as the top player at the World U20 Championships. Which fully supports both the "Convey apologists" (as I have sarcastically called them in the past) and Arena's love for Convey. Apparently, the kid can really, truly play. OK, fine, so I never figured that out until now. But what is Ray Hudson's excuse for being as dumb as me? With all due respect, I wasn't exactly DC United's frigging coach, and I'm not exactly an ex-professional. So ... Ray? Even if everything else Hudson did was right, he still should have been released because of how Convey played for him. There is no defense for a coach who can't manage a young superstar -- which, by MLS standards, Convey must now be considered, due to his U20 performances.
When i saw Convey play today i was thinking that he reminded me of someone that i couldn't put a finger on..... Paul Scholes is that player. Thanks- it was really bothering me.
I disagree, everyone pretty much has concluded on this board that our best midfield play during the Ray era was the 4 games at the end of 2002 with Bobby and Marco both in the middle. Bobby made runs from the center, Marco distributed the ball. That is in my mind also the ONLY time Bobby did a damn thing for UNITED in the middle. And please everyone, haven't we learned our lesson about playing on the Nats and especially youth nats doesn't translate to MLS success? Chris Albright is exhibit A.
Bobby did great in the middle which is one of the reasons he played there against wales. I don't think that has much to do with maco as the man only distributes. He can't get forward and he sure don't get back, so I'll suggest convey and Olsen in the middle next season with Stewart doing the distribution from Stopper provides a very nice offensive minded team. Kubik can work his stuff with a flat back 3.
Actually, I think there was another problem too. I didn't see it clearly until this tournament but I really think the difference between Ho-Hum Bobby and Super Bobby is simply confidence. He's playing with confidence in this tournament. He played like a broken man for DC United this last season. Hudson's McDonalds soccer crack, his being consigned to the wing and his continuing in Etcheverry's shadow, I'm quite sure, didn't help. What's so bizarre is that Convey always seems to play very well for Rongen. Yet the rap against Rongen is that he's a terrible motivator and has an uncanny ability to destroy his players' confidence. To paraphrase Tom Presthus, he always says exactly the wrong thing at exactly the wrong time. On the other hand Convey plays terribly for Hudson who is supposedly such a great motivator. By the way, if Bobby's playing McDonalds soccer in this tournament then I know why they call it a Happy Meal.
Re: Convey & Hudson I'll have a go at this one. I read Hudson's quotes to suggest that Convey was a fine player, but that he just wasn't reliable enough with the ball. He could play up-tempo and whatnot, but didn't "value the ball" enough. I think there's a grain of truth in that, but Ray certainly didn't do anything to develop him and by deciding that he'd rather sink or swim with Marco than take a chance with Bobby, he made the decision that ultimately cost him his job (in my opinion we would have been better off with Bobby in the middle for 30 games). And I think Knave is right as well...I said this somewhere else earlier today, but I really think that the difference between Rongen patting Convey on the back and handing him the captain's armband and Ray refusing to trust him and having a crack at Convey's game might be big. And, to be fair...let's not lose sight of the fact that in the U-20 Convey is playing his peers rather than a bunch of seasoned pros.
I was very disappointed in Bobby's play for United this year. But I have to admit that after he was turned down by the Brits, his game has improved remarkably. I figure that he'll be in Europe for a top league (English Premier, Spanish First Division, Bundesliga, Serie A) by this time next year, and that his detractors will be eating a lot of crow.
I've been one of the harshest critics of Bobby Convey that there is. I love his talent, but he has not performed, in my opinion. HOWEVER, what is clear from this tournament is that this kid has to be in the middle of the pitch. He is not a wing player, and i'm starting to believe that if we can just get him into the middle of the field at United, his fortunes would change. maybe i'm wrong, but dang, this guy is playing so good in the middle right now, its hard to see him not succeed there at united.
Re: Re: Convey & Hudson Yeah, but if that's so significant then why isn't Santino Quaranta having a better tournament? After all, this is a step down for him in terms of competition.
Re: Re: Re: Convey & Hudson Additionally, Bobby's been a pro for four full years now. That's not enough to make him 'seasoned'? MLS players are just as much Bobby's peers as these U-20's are.
I think there's a couple of things going on here. 1) Bobby's recovered from the bronchitis or whatever it was that he was playing through at the end of this season. People tend to forget that the kid was putting in 90 minutes of work despite being pretty sick. 2) Bobby's always been a better player in the middle. Rongen, Arena and Hudson ALL stuck him out on the wing because they truly believe--all of them--that Bobby's best chance of heading to England is as a wing. They're trying to help him achieve his dream. In my not-at-all-humble opinion, they've only jeopardized his career by doing so. The kid is not a wing. Period. He is a player in the Scholes-type mold. 3) Folks are unnecessarily getting their knickers in a twist over that comment. The comment wasn't that he's in the same class as Paul Scholes, rather, it was that he is a player in that MOLD. That's a very different thing. Of course Bobby's nowhere near as good as Scholes. That's ridiculous. But nobody said so. What was said is that if you imagine the ROLE that Scholes fills at ManU, it's fairly easy to see Bobby fill that role for DCU (or potentially, the US Nats). Not that Bobby should be playing for ManU. Reading comprehension. It's basic. 4) Part of the reason that Bobby has had so much trouble here at United is that he just doesn't mesh well with Marco. That's not a knock on either player--it's just an observation. I don't think Earnie Stewart meshed well with Etch either. With that in mind, one tactic I'd like to see next year is for United to try a variation on the 4-5-1, with Stewart and Bobby playing co-attacking mids behind a real striker. Cerritos could potentially be that player, and so could Martins, when he comes back, but my gut tells me we really need another player if this is going to work. Or you could go with that whacky offset 3-5-2 I proposed in one of the other threads. At any rate, I don't think the title of this thread is completely off-base, as long as you qualify the idea. Bobby's still growing as a player, after all. It's to be hoped that life after Etcheverry and in a system that doesn't force him into a role he's ill-suited to, Bobby will flower into that player we all hope he can be.
Nor can Convey bend the ball as decent as most of the players playing in this cup. Convey has alot of stanima, but when I hear people talk about how fast he is, I realize they know nothing of him. Big difference between stanima and speed.