Blatter on naturalized Brazilians

Discussion in 'FIFA and Tournaments' started by studzup, Nov 27, 2007.

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  1. Alex_K

    Alex_K Member+

    Mar 23, 2002
    Braunschweig, Germany
    Club:
    Eintracht Braunschweig
    Nat'l Team:
    Bhutan
    Before I even think about anything else, you start by showing anything that supports your claims. You know, usually it's the guy who claims something who has the burden of proof.

    You also already got plenty of data from me that you have to explain first.
     
  2. Paul_NL

    Paul_NL Red Card

    May 18, 2006
    Gerald Asamoah is only German now, does this mean if he had applied for German citizenship(Which makes sense for him personally and careerwise) that he would have lost his Ghanian pasport.

    So the case for him would be either

    1) Play for Ghana and don´t play for not a single country after naturalization
    2) Play for Ghana and not applying for German citizenship
    3) Don´t play for Ghana, apply for citizenship and play for Germany

    That would mean that he could only play for Ghana if he not had become a German citizen, and that does not make sense for him
     
  3. Paul_NL

    Paul_NL Red Card

    May 18, 2006
    It´s impossible for African immigrants(or non western) to become German if they are not married to a German or have a lot of money

    This is the reality and clearly shown in the stats.

    Further, the reform also takes into account the fact that more than seven million foreigners live in Germany on a long-term basis. One third of them have lived here for more than 30 years; half of them have lived in Germany for at least 20 years.

    http://www.london.diplo.de/Vertretu...ers/Reform__Germanys__citizenship__seite.html

    About 30% of all Turks are Germans and there are still milions of Turks and Africans who are in the country for over 20 years who can´t become German. If you are born to 2 foreign parents you can´t become German before your 8th birthday and those people are the 30.000 plus Naturalizations of Turkish nationals.

    Face it, German nationality law is very racist unless you are a Jew, Western or an ethical German.
     
  4. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    New Zealand
    Can a mod delete this troll?

    He has no basis for these claims - as Alex has clearly proven.
     
  5. Alex_K

    Alex_K Member+

    Mar 23, 2002
    Braunschweig, Germany
    Club:
    Eintracht Braunschweig
    Nat'l Team:
    Bhutan
    Seriously, you link to a site which shows how the naturalization law was reformed ten years ago, yet you think this somehow proofs your point? You link to the freaking German embassy in London, in case you haven't noticed. If we were having this conversation, say, 20 years ago you might have some point, although naturalization was already possible back then. Indeed children born to foreign parents in Germany did not receive citizenship before 1999. Before 1999 you also had to have lived in Germany for 15 years (although, since 1999 reduced to 8 years) before you could be naturalized.

    From the site you linked to:

    "Children who are born in Germany to foreign nationals will receive German citizenship when one of the respective child's parents has resided lawfully in Germany for at least eight years and holds entitlement to residence or has had an unlimited residence permit for at least three years. Under the new law, such children acquire German citizenship at birth."

    Children born after 1999 fitting those criteria do not appear in those statistics at all anymore.

    You keep on bringing up the seven million foreign nationals in Germany without German citizenship. Yet, the single biggest group in there are EU-nationals (if you count EU-nationals as one group, that is). Considering how underrepresented the 2,2 million EU citizens are in those naturalization statistics, does this proof that German law discriminates against EU nationals?

    Total: 6.751.002
    Europeans: 5.375.126 (includes 1,7 million Turks)
    Asians: 819.623
    Africans: 272.376
    Americans: 213.069
    Australia/Oceania: 10.832

    Now we would have to exclude those who do not qualify for citizenship. Which means everyone who has not lived in Germany for at least 8 years. Than those who do not want to become naturalized. Or those who would want to, but haven't bothered to go through the paperwork yet.

    Finally, who keeps foreign nationals who qualify for German citizenship from attaining citizenship? The law states that EVERY foreign national who applies has the right to receive citizenship if he fullfils the requirements. So who keeps them out? How? This would be a massive breaking of German law.
     
  6. Alex_K

    Alex_K Member+

    Mar 23, 2002
    Braunschweig, Germany
    Club:
    Eintracht Braunschweig
    Nat'l Team:
    Bhutan
    My biggest flaw on message boards is probably that I simply can't ignore them ;). See above :D.
     
  7. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    New Zealand
    He is completely overlooking the fact that all these 'millions of hard done people' must have RESIDENCY - or else they would have to LEAVE

    But then his point is simply to mouth off his anti-german prejudice, not to have sensible debate innit ;)
     
  8. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    Just wanted to chime in supporting this. People like him are one of the reasons that BS can be so infuriating.
     
  9. Paul_NL

    Paul_NL Red Card

    May 18, 2006
    Maybe you should find a life somewhere then
     
  10. Sagy

    Sagy New Member

    Aug 6, 2004
    False!
    From a Ghanaian source
    In general it is a good idea to get some facts before making claims.
     
  11. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    New Zealand
    Correct. it is my understanding the law more works the other way round.

    So in theory - if I were to decide to apply for German citizenship one day, they might require me to give up NZ citizenship. But in reality, unless I officially renounce my citizenship in writing in the format required by the New Zealand Government - I will remain a NZ citizen no matter what Germany says, because NZ allows dual Citizenship.

    My daughter on the other hand is German - so if she takes up New Zealand Citizenship as she is entitled by descent, in theory this might jeopardize her German citizenship because of the rule against dual citizenship.

    So I might still opt to play for NZ - whereas she might no longer be eligible for Germany.... :D
     
  12. Paul_NL

    Paul_NL Red Card

    May 18, 2006
    Asamoah is not Ghanian anymore, but I am sure you know it better then himself and his agent
     
  13. Paul_NL

    Paul_NL Red Card

    May 18, 2006
    1) You need to renounce your other nationality before you can become German
    2) Your daughter can both get the NZ as the German nationality, she will be asked however between her 18th and 23rd to chose one
     
  14. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    New Zealand
    Usually/Theoretically - and the other country also needs to recognize it. There is possibility for laws to conflict.

    That's by birth. AFAIK if you voluntarily take another, then you automatically lose your german citizenship.
     
  15. Paul_NL

    Paul_NL Red Card

    May 18, 2006
    His daughter is German and can get the NZ one because one of her parents is

    You can renounce every nationality with the exemtion of Argentina and Marocco and they probally have a special law for that.
     
  16. Alex_K

    Alex_K Member+

    Mar 23, 2002
    Braunschweig, Germany
    Club:
    Eintracht Braunschweig
    Nat'l Team:
    Bhutan
    Generally German law doesn't allow dual citizenship. However, there are various exceptions to the rule:

    - in general, dual citizenship is allowed for EU citizens and citizens of Switzerland. So neither do Swiss or EU citizens have to give up their old citizenship if they become German, nor have Germans to give up their old citizenship if they become Swiss, or citizens of another EU country.

    - German citizens who take up the citizenship of another country don't loose their citizenship automatically. They can apply for keeping their old citizenship as well. Dual citizenship is allowed for German/Americans, for example, although on a case by case basis (but please don't take my word here for gospel, if anyone wants to change his citizenship also consult an embassy or something ;)).

    Dual citizenship is also allowed in the following cases:
    - children of one parent with German and one parent with another citizenship
    - naturalized Germans who come from a country that doesn't allow it's citizens to give up citizenship
    - for political refugees
    - people who can make a claim for financial loss in case of giving up their old citizenship
     
  17. Alex_K

    Alex_K Member+

    Mar 23, 2002
    Braunschweig, Germany
    Club:
    Eintracht Braunschweig
    Nat'l Team:
    Bhutan
  18. Sagy

    Sagy New Member

    Aug 6, 2004
    Source?

    Does Ghanaian government agrees with your statement? If not, your statement is meaningless (for this discussion) even if German government agrees with you.

    Keep in mind, the fact that country A says/thinks that you are no longer a citizen of country B, does not mean that Country B agrees. According to FIFA, if country B still accepts you as a citizen and you haven't played for any other country, then you are still eligible for country B. Your claim was that this is not the case.
     
  19. Paul_NL

    Paul_NL Red Card

    May 18, 2006
    You need to be a citizen and a pasport holder of the country you want to represent.

    Asamoah couldnt play for Ghana anymore when he became German

    End, thread closed
     
  20. Sagy

    Sagy New Member

    Aug 6, 2004
    True
    False. I have shown you statements from the Ghanaian FA chairman that disprove your statement. You have not shown anything in support of you statement.
    Does this mean that you are not going to post in this thread anymore?
     
  21. tomwilhelm

    tomwilhelm Member+

    Dec 14, 2005
    Boston, MA, USA
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ok, this isn't going anywhere. Let's move on so it isn't necessary to close this thread.
     
  22. girvie

    girvie New Member

    Jan 6, 2008
    Reinaldo, one of the Brazilians in the A-League recently said he would like to play for Australia. He's 23 and only arrived in Australia in 2005 on a football contract.

    I think Blatter is doing the right thing if he tries to stop players switching countries.

    They shouldn't be allowed to play for a country unless they lived there before they were 18. (or if they qualify on heritage).
     
  23. Paul_NL

    Paul_NL Red Card

    May 18, 2006
    1)You take really take the Ghanian FA serious on this issue? Good luck to you then
    2) It´s all about Germany, and there law. Ghana has got nothing to do with that.
     
  24. Paul_NL

    Paul_NL Red Card

    May 18, 2006
    When can he qualify for Australian citizenship?

    Does he then not count as foreigner anymore
     
  25. Andy TAUS

    Andy TAUS Member

    Jan 31, 2004
    Sydney, AUS
    Well not quite: eg England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, Hong Kong, etc. FIFA is less pedantic on what they mean by "countries" than (say) the United Nations.
     

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