Blake: On His Choice

Discussion in 'Colorado Rapids' started by bigdush, Jan 29, 2004.

  1. bigdush

    bigdush New Member

    Jul 22, 2003
    Parker, CO
  2. FlashMan

    FlashMan Member

    Jan 6, 2000
    'diego
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Doesn't paint a particularly pretty picture, does it.

    As a fellow Williams alum, I'm rootin' for Blake wherever he goes.

    Reading through the lines of his farewell, he seems to be saying: "I wish well to all of my teammates, who I enjoyed my time with, but Hankinson and Counce can kiss my #ss."
     
  3. Malaga CF fan

    Malaga CF fan Member

    Apr 19, 2000
    Fairfax, VA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just think if Rochester ends up running into the Rapids in the Open Cup. Don't think Blake will have a little extra motivation for that game? That's exactly the kind of stuff the comes back to bite the Rapids in the ass.

    Here's my question. Blake really was a prospect. I follow player movement in this league, but my knowledge of most MLS rosters is limited to the starting 11 and maybe a couple of subs. A player in Blake's position with the Crew or the Galaxy is probably a player whose name I haven't heard or haven't seen play (I wouldn't notice if they were gone.) So the question is, is this happening all over the league?

    With Herdsmann, Schmidt and now Blake leaving the team of their own accord (not getting cut, but resigning, looking for other opportunities, etc...) a definite pattern is developing, and it points straight to management (either Hanki or Counce....). Are other teams experiencing similar player movement? Has New England or the Metros had fringe players (non-starters, players who have gotten PT but maybe not enough PT) just up and leave the team to strike out for different opportunities? If this is happening around the league, that's common, it's just the nature of the business. But if this is unique to the Rapids, I think we can point definitively at the coach and management and ask "What the hell is going on here!?!?!?"

    It reminds me of lesser organizations in other sports, other leagues.... the Clippers in the NBA, the Bengals and the Cardinals in the NFL, the Brewers in MLB.... teams that are so mismanaged that they get branded and word gets around the league so that players don't want to go there, don't want to play for the team because of the poor quality of the ownership and management. They don't know how to treat professional athletes. Kroenke seems to know how to treat his athletes. The Avs are a model organization for the NHL, the Nuggets are on the rebound after a couple of years in Clipperville, I don't know jack about the Crush or the Mammoth, but they really haven't had very long to establish a reputation or a pattern, so they don't really count. I think Kroenke and his management team knows what they are doing, so hopefully, they will take a serious look at the management of this team, and if they see problems, deal with them.

    Maybe I'm overreacting, but the pattern is emerging and alarm bells are going off that something stinks.
     
  4. GoRapids

    GoRapids Member

    Sep 1, 1999
    Boulder CO
    One thing I can tell you for sure from just looking at the Rapids draft history and comparing it with other MLS teams ...

    Third round picks RARELY make it in MLS.
     
  5. greenie

    greenie New Member

    Feb 6, 2000
    Boulder, CO
    At least his experience with the Rapids hasn't soured Blake's attitude towards sticking with the pro game.

    Gotta wonder how/why Schmidt went from signing a multi-year contract (just prior to the Atlas match) to MLS retirement in less than a year... without injury being a factor.

    That's what concerns me, whether it's an MLS-wide issue or simply The Wank. MLS will only succeed in the long run if it is the primary dream of all its young players -- and at any salary.

    Minor leagues for baseball and hockey are stocked full of 18-22 year-olds who play full-time and only get room, board and a slight stipend in return, all because of the dream to someday get a chance at the big time.
     
  6. GoRapids

    GoRapids Member

    Sep 1, 1999
    Boulder CO
    Great point ... if you feel bad for MLS players ... you should see what some minor league baseball players make.
     
  7. Keyeno T

    Keyeno T New Member

    Jan 29, 2004
    BLAKE and the Alarming Pattern

     
  8. pigtail

    pigtail New Member

    Apr 7, 2000
    And now Wes Hart is being royally screwed by Tim. They do not want to offer the guy anything and they are refusing to let him go to another MLS team that wants him. In other words they want him to sit out 2 years before he can go to another MLS team. Tim is a wicked bastard and it is well known that the players hate his guts. Now how can this team win when they do not want to play for this coach.
     
  9. spot

    spot Member+

    Nov 29, 1999
    Centennial
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Pigtail,

    What's the info on the other team wanting Hart?
     
  10. ChrisE

    ChrisE Member

    Jul 1, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    Re: BLAKE and the Alarming Pattern

    You would know better than me, Keyeno, but this seems to be more of a problem with the Rapids than with any other team. Dallas, despite being the worst team in the league last year, hasn't had anyone (much less several players) walk away. No one from, if memory serves me right, any of the other teams in the league has had a player leave MLS for another opportunity, whether that be a position in the A-league or a job in the 'real world.'

    Maybe you could provide some insight into what kind of coach Hankinson is; I'm sure it would be interesting to hear from someone with a different perspective than the rest of us.
     
  11. GoRapids

    GoRapids Member

    Sep 1, 1999
    Boulder CO
    From the Rapids press release he's free to play for any MLS team ... do you have an inside track?

    Keyeno ... good to hear from former players, if that's who you are. Like to hear an update about what you're doing.

    And Keyeno is completely correct. This is what I've been getting at ... Borchers is a prime example of capitalising on his opportunity ... though he didn't have to wait long. I can't think of any player that has rotted on the pine that I've thought ... man give him a shot ... the closest person I can think of was Beckerman in 2002 ... but looking at his stats ... he did get quite a few shots then. A truly talented player cannot keep a coach from playing him ... not even Hanki.

    Kingsley got a shot in 2002 and made it happen ... he stunk in 2003 ... and hurt himself for example.

    So Blake didn't get a shot ... what did he expect?? Obviously he's not as good as CC or Spennie ... and it's hard to say if he was better than Zizi, but I sort of doubt it. Boo Hoo ... if he is getting screwed he made the right choice.

    I'd be surprised if he can crack the lineup consistently on a quality side like Rochester though. Time will tell ... Blake will be an interesting fella's career to keep an eye on.
     
  12. greenie

    greenie New Member

    Feb 6, 2000
    Boulder, CO
    This is just my take based on Blake's quotes, but it sounds to me like he was still leaning towards staying with the Rapids but ultimately left for two reasons:

    1. He felt that the team (Hank, Counce, MLS, whatever) was not honest with him about where he stood

    2. Rochester offered him an opportunity to mean something more than #4 on the depth chart.

    I don't think Blake is being a crybaby about this situation at all, nor do I think he's suggesting that he should have been given starts ahead of Zizi or even Carrieri.

    What does seem clear is that he didn't feel he was given much of a chance and let's be honest, 24 minutes spread across 3 league games isn't exactly much of a chance, especially considering that Zizi was injured for much of the season.

    When Blake was given his one true chance to prove himself (against Guatemala) he did turn it on and was quite impressive.

    Unless he really stunk it up in training, I think the guy's got a right to complain. He may have had a bad attitude. And he certainly may have been (and/or still is) carrying around a big fat ego. He may be so arrogant and cocky that he believe he should have been partnered with Spenny.

    But doesn't that describe every young forward? Moreover, isn't that what you want out of a young forward?

    Yet regardless of those issues, the fact is that Blake is yet another in a long line of players that have publicly expressed great dislike and distrust for The Wank in the past 12 months. How many more will it take? I'm not holding my breath on Gregorio being in Denver too long.

    Ultimately I think Blake just felt that there was no point in playing for the Rapids, or MLS for that matter, when he'd be given a better chance to prove his worth in the A-League.
     
  13. Northcal19

    Northcal19 New Member

    Feb 18, 2000
    Celtic Tavern LODO (
    Re: BLAKE and the Alarming Pattern

     
  14. bigdush

    bigdush New Member

    Jul 22, 2003
    Parker, CO
    I think that gilles felt like he was lied to by the wank.

    I think that schmidt felt like he was lied to by the wank.

    I think that blake felt like he was lied to by the wank.

    It's all good to have to earn your starting spot, or any playing time. Sometimes it takes a long time to crack it. But, my impression is that wankinson teases his players (as a form of motivation) into thinking that they are going to get a shot instead of being honest and saying, "before you even sniff the field, you're going to have to get better at A, B, C, etc. Work on those things and if we see progress, then we can talk about playing time."
     
  15. Malaga CF fan

    Malaga CF fan Member

    Apr 19, 2000
    Fairfax, VA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's just it though. I agree that players should really ride the pine, gain experience, train hard and earn their spot on the team. But my question was whether or not this was a league wide issue or just the Rapids. After a good string of players leaving the team for reasons outside of the team letting them go or trading them, it casts a reasonable doubt on Hankinson's ability to motivate, train, and develop his players.

    How often in professional sports do you see guys with reasonable opportunities just up and leave? Despite not getting much PT, Blake and Schmidt, for example, were a part of the first team and within spitting distance of starting a couple of games should either Zizi or CC go down with an injury. And we all know that Zizi is built like a tank but is fragile, so him going down to injury is at least a possibility. Most guys would train hard and wait for their shot, I know I would, even if I was making scratch. If you are 23 years old, fresh out of college, you're probably not making much more than 40k anyhow (25k isn't much, but you are living the dream of being a professional athlete), and I've heard of guys taking part-time jobs in the off-season to make ends meet. It's a part of paying your dues.

    The minor-league baseball analogy holds true here. Young guys slave away in little known leagues for peanuts, just to get a shot at the big leagues. It's been romanticized in countless films. It's part of American opportunity (idealized, romanticized, fictionalized), the great American myth.

    So we have at least 4 players in the past 12 months by my count (Grimandi, Herdsmann, Schmidt and Blake), who have turned their back on opportunities because of reasons outside of injury, physical limitation, or any movement by the front office. They have left the Rapids organization of their own accord.

    Maybe this is all on the players. Maybe we've just had a bad run of luck selecting guys that weren't 100% committed to being professional soccer players. But that doesn't sound right to me. This pattern alludes to a reasonable conclusion that there is more going on behind the scenes with coaching and management that is pushing these players to look elsewhere.
     
  16. Keyeno T

    Keyeno T New Member

    Jan 29, 2004
    Re: Re: BLAKE and the Alarming Pattern

    Northcal19:
    I agree with you, this is America and you have "Thank God" more options. In other countries if you devote your entire life to soccer and never make it....you're pretty much screwed!...but those options don't give you the right to DEMAND something...you are pretty much still on your own and have to put your time in and wait for your chance....this is nothing specific to soccer...guys, this is the way it works in LIFE overall (unless you happen to be a trust-child or win the lottery!!

    By the way, this is not something unique to the Rapids. It happens everywhere in he world but little do we hear about it...in MLS we are more exposed to these "Smaller" stories due to the magic of the internet and people like greenie, joeyclams and c. Bergin, who communicate these things!
     
  17. Keyeno T

    Keyeno T New Member

    Jan 29, 2004
    Malaga:

    I think you are right in what you say...in other sports you have the infrastructure to create this environment, in which people can pay and dream...and potentially have a shot at the big leagues......in soccer: we don't have that!! A-League??? DPL ???? those are not really a farm system for MLS players. Colleges are, and college kids with education always have a two or three oportunities to do something outside soccer. So let me ask you:

    if you have two options that might pay back immediately and not really that much passion for the sport (not enough to wait on the bench for your turn, or develop into a better player than any of those on the starting 11)...

    what would you choose??

    By the way, who do you know that has taken a job in the off season???
     
  18. GoRapids

    GoRapids Member

    Sep 1, 1999
    Boulder CO
    But you have to ask yourself ... if these guys were good enough SOMEBODY in MLS would want them ... I mean you think Dallas is deeper than the Rapids?

    I am not saying Hanki doesn't alienate players ... because we've seen so many leave for "family reasons" among our foreign players, like Marquhino and Grimandi ... but at the same time, these minor players that are walking away wouldn't walk away if they thought they could make it in MLS. Players that think they can make it in MLS and aren't being given a fair shake demand a trade!! They don't quit.

    That's how we got CC!!!

    It's also how we got Jason Moore, Steve Shak, and Billy Sleeth for that matter.
     
  19. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well lets look at the four listed:

    Grimandi - He could play for any MLs team if he wanted to
    Schmidt - Left for a very good job outside of soccer, we won't know if he was MLS caliber or not, but the early impressions were favorable
    Herdsman - Rights aquired by Crew for a draft pick, so they think he's worth giving another shot in MLS
    Blake - Signed as a starter for one of the best A-LEague teams, and may be returning to MLS through expansion with them

    These guys aren't the next MVP's of the league, but they aren't exactly MLS washouts either
     
  20. GoRapids

    GoRapids Member

    Sep 1, 1999
    Boulder CO
    Grimandi I actually put under the foreign "family matters" category.
    Schmidt - if the job was the case then it wasn't exactly Hanki's fault entirely was it? If he thought he was the next Mathis ... wouldn't he have pursued a different route?
    Herdsman - So they got his rights ... I've seen him play ... I was glad he quit!
    Blake - how do you know he's going to be a starter?

    Look here:http://forums.rhinossoccer.com/viewtopic.php?t=144
    with the exception of one person who claimed Blake is better than CC and zizi ... they all seem to think Blake will only get a few starts.
     
  21. greenie

    greenie New Member

    Feb 6, 2000
    Boulder, CO
    March 2003: Schmidt signs a multi-year deal with the Rapids after leading all of MLS in preseason goal scoring. Rewards the Rapids later that day by running out and scoring a pair of goals (inches away from a hat trick) against Santos.

    November 2003: Schmidt has his gear packed and is ready to drive back to Cali before the Rapids are even through with the playoffs.

    So what the hell happened in between?

    With the Rapids being Schmidt's only exposure to the pro soccer, one certainly has to question just what caused such a massive change of heart. Was it simply the lack of playing time, or was it something more?

    According to those that knew him personally, as the season went on and Schmidt saw no playing time, he began to question his role in the club and his future in MLS, and when he approached The Wank to discuss his concerns, he was given no reassurance that he had any sort of future in the league.

    Who knows if that is truly the case or it's something else. Perhaps he simply realized he didn't want to live the life of a professional athlete and wanted to be challenged by a different line of work. Perhaps he didn't like Denver. Or missed his family. Or had a greater dream than playing soccer, and chose to follow a once-in-a-lifetime chance. Maybe he couldn't stand his teammates.

    All that we know is that within 8 months, a kid started out just being thrilled to be drafted, then became the talk of all MLS with his preaseason performance that earned him a multi-year contract (which few rookies get), then couldn't wait to put Denver in his rearview mirror.

    Simply put, there's something wrong with the system when this happens. This is not a story you hear about a young athlete in any sport, in any country.

    With regards to Schmidt, a questioning glance must surely be cast at the Rapids or MLS. If nothing else, they continue to fail to provide an environment in which young players want to remain at all costs, while not being disillusioned by what their future realistically holds.

    Unions and/or leagues of other major sports (including other countries' football associations) hold lengthy clinics during preseason for young, first-year players, to expose, educate and prepare them for life as a professional. One of the biggest reasons cited for this is to identify those players that may not be mentally or emotionally prepared, and react in kind. In some cases this has meant players that opt not to pursue a professional career after all.

    Most of these programs run for 3 to 5 days, somtimes longer, and many programs continue throughout the season. MLS spends what amounts to a long afternoon with their young rookies, then leaves it up to the teams to look after their own.

    I can't speak for other teams in MLS, but the Rapids have a fairly miserable track record when it comes to helping players that are having difficulty adjusting to MLS. If a player like Schmidt decides to hang up the boots, it shouldn't be done with great resentment towards the team and/or league.

    Certainly there are players who can't be helped -- such as Agogo -- but this is no excuse to turn a blind eye simply because the player is having relative success on the field.

    With the Rapids, this problem hasn't been limited to the young players, either. Veterans, especially foreign hispanic players, have run into great difficulty adjusting to life with the Rapids and MLS, and the club has been ill-prepared to assist them despite having experience with these players dating all the way back to Tote Castaneda and Marquinho.

    For a struggling league this is certainly not a problem that can be fixed overnight, but at the same time it shouldn't be swept under the rug. Until someone (whether KSE or MLS) takes a hard look at why the Rapids continue to have difficulty in this area, the problems will continue as will the revolving door of young players.
     
  22. Keyeno T

    Keyeno T New Member

    Jan 29, 2004
     
  23. greenie

    greenie New Member

    Feb 6, 2000
    Boulder, CO
    I'm no talking about the millions that merely play, let alone actually consider a career in soccer. We're talking about the few hundred young, first-year players each year that actually get a contract to play at their country's highest level of league play.

    What we're talking about is a situation where players are signed directly to a club's first-team (as we have no reserves) in the country's first divison... then wind up out of the sport entirely a year later.

    Even in the most remote CONCACAF leagues this isn't a common occurrence. I'm sure if Joe Public made a big deal of signing a 21-year-old player to a multi-year, firstteam contract, only for that player to drop off the map 8 months, then fans would hear about it. Maybe not those of us here in the states, but I'm sure Joe Public's fans would recognize that as something out of the ordinary.

    And to echo a previous user's statement in this thread, MLS should hold itself to a much higher standard than every other league in CONCACAF, and that includes Mexico.
     
  24. Bonji

    Bonji Moderator

    Feb 4, 2003
    Denver, Colorado
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Greenie, you are right that this is a troubling issue. I think it points to the need for a larger allocation of development players on each roster and a reserve team. However, this will not absolve the manager from needing to communicate with the players truthfully about their status on the team. If someone is signed and in the first months of training the manager knows they are not going to play, they should be sent to the reserves and know they will need to impress there to get another 1st team shot. Simple.
    We already have a team by the correct name, Boulder Rapids Reserves. Now KSE needs to bring them into the fold and get MLS to allow them to move players back and fourth easily.
     
  25. GoRapids

    GoRapids Member

    Sep 1, 1999
    Boulder CO


    I've been a die hard NHL fan (NJ Devils in particular) since 88. And I can tell you that you DO hear about this situation all the time in hockey. This year in NJ for example, the Devils signed a good NHL calibre defenseman to play the 6th spot ... then after siting him for two months they finally sent him down to Albany. NJ struggled, they called him up ... and he capitalized on his chance and is sticking.

    Two years ago there was a jerk off that kept bitching about playing time ... he was subsquently shipped off to St. Louis after being banished for the second half of the year ... and I mean suspended not sent to the AHL.

    My point, NJ Devils are considered the top development of young talent in the whole NHL ... and every year you hear about a player that isn't given the chance.

    The difference? In the NHL, you assume more that the people running the show know what they're doing, whereas the people who follow MLS do not think that thier skippers know what they are doing (whether this is the case or not isn't my point). In the NHL, young players are expected to put in thier time and keep thier mouths shut, and when they get the chance, they capitalize or they never make it.

    Every year NHL teams drafts like 9 players, and of those players, only maybe four or five get a shot at the big club, and of those, if you're a good drafting team two will make it - two to three years down the road (unless it's a top five pick). Most teams only get one player and many get none.

    So what we as MLS fans need to do, is stop caring about these meaningless third rounders that don't make it (until the third round starts producing) and concentrate on other things. We should expect a higher level of professionalism from our players ... players need to be AFRAID of having poor performances, because there are three guys waiting for the chance to knock them out of the lineup. They should be expected to FORCE the coaches hand ... like Borchers did ... when given the opportunity. But those opportunities certianly shouldn't be guaranteed.

    Yes top prospects should be given playing time ... but second rate prospects like Blake, Schmidt, Trembly ... certianly shouldn't be expecting much. That is what A-League is for. And that's where Blake and Trembly belong. Not in MLS.

    This is NOT to say Hanki is not a jerk off as far as man managment ... I'm just saying that this "non develoment of youth players" argument that I keep hearing is bunk. The main problem is that we never bring in good prospects to develope!!

    And we need to start holding our players accountable!!! Tim isn't the only reason for our struggle ... and it is not only BORING to keep reading that, but it's way too simplistic.
     

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