"Black" vs "African-American"

yeah, if you put a big emphasis on the word "somewhat."

If you say "black," nobody gets upset or anything.

I really don't like "African-American" since it's such a poor descriptive term. My wife is actually African, so our children are "African-Americans" in a way somebody whose people came over here 250 years ago is NOT. The amount of "Africanness" in most American blacks is just way too slight for "African-American" to make any sense. (I mean culture, not genetics.)

 

Of all the names they've been called, you want to complain about "African-American"?

 

I refuse to say 'African-American' unless blacks start calling whites 'European-American'.

 

I would rather be called Anglo-American as my family is not from the rest of Europe. Is that so wrong?

 

It's pretty funny, people don't know what to call black people who aren't American anymore. There was that newspaper article that described Nelson Mandela as the first African-American president of S. Africa, makes you think these papers put everything through a spell-check that changes every instance of "black" to "African-American".

 

stop being so sensitive.

and nate, I am sure nobody gives a flip what you call people.

Christ. Canada. Can we trade it for some country with pizzazz? Is Chile available?

 

Why? What difference does your Canadian citizenship make to this thread?

"Urban" is a code word... kidding. Obviously, racist code words do exist, so I won't continue to be flippant about that. But I remember reading somewhere that before the 60s (Garvey and others being an exception), identification with the African part of America's culture was virtually nonexistent. But at some point, Black people saw that embracing European culture (dress, music, speech, religion) didn't make them any more human in the eyes of those who wanted to reject them, so they turned to the one thing that would not reject them based purely on their appearance. No, it's not all that accurate culturally, but it beats chasing a carrot that no one wants you to have. IMO, people still use "White" because of the ease of mainstream acceptance they encounter. There's no need for them to hyphenate Poland, Italy, or Ireland, because those cultures are melted into America's pot for them in ways that most African cultures haven't ever been(they weren't always, but they are now, and even when they weren't, it was mild- not anything like slavery or Jim Crow).

Can't say. I've only spent a few months in Canada and the Caribbean, and the Black people I've met do seem a bit politically unarmed. Or maybe the situation there isn't as dire as it is here. Do you have any Strom Thurmonds, Trent Lotts, Bob Jones or Brigham Young Universities (not to mention the entire SEC)? My guess is that Canada doesn't have the history (distant or recent) that would make people of color feel the need to emphasize the culture of their ancestors.

 

I've done that from time to time, but as America has maintained so much of Europe (language, religion, dress, music, food) in building "its" culture, it really seems redundant.

 

You seemed to give a flip enough to bother to type something about it....but thanks for pointing that out. Coming from someone as esteemed as yourself, it really, really means a lot to me.

 

They do. I've seen another mistake of this type.

But the best was an account I saw in the N&O a while back of another newspaper that reported a company whose bottom line had improved. It went from being in the red to being in the African-American.

 

Re: Re: "Black" vs "African-American"

But you can say that about many ethnic groups-spend time in Italy and then watch the so-called Italian-Americans. If race wasn't still the currency that it is in American society, it would all be harmless fun.

From the time I was a child, the question, "what are you?" has been a constant. I say Afro-Hispanic-something that I would think seeing my last name (a typical name) and my physical features, would be self-evident. But...that is not how this country operates. This society makes you choose-not to mention the expectations vis-a-vis how you "represent" the group, which is more frustrating than anything I have encountered from whites.

There is a tragic irony in what I see as the search for a larger indentity, while simultaneously trying to live as a "free man." To be free-especially in a country like United States-IMO means you transcend lables of racial identity. This is a place where you come to reinvent yourself (as best you can, as some things in us are fixed). But that is an idealistic view, of course. I do my best to just be "Ray," but that does not always go over so well

I suppose though, if there is one good thing about the "Afro-..." lable is that is does remind us of how young a country the US is, and in a more subtle but still effective way, also reminds us of the sin of slavery-in much the same way using Native Americans instead of Indians, changes the way one might look at the timeline of North American history or the concept of "La Chingada," in Mexico. Octavio Paz his written a lot about this similar desire to be connected to some place of origin. Read his Nobel Lecture-
http://www.nobel.se/literature/laureates/1990/paz-lecture.html

This part speaks to this thread:

 

I say "black", period. African-American is just a term derived by the leftist PC speech police as a means to push their wacko agenda. I refuse to be bullied by race-oriented groups who hijack words and pass judgement on those who don't adhere to their dictates. Unless your parents immigrated to this country from Africa, or you yourself were born in Africa, then you have no basis to call yourself African-American. I think it ends after a generation or two. I consider myself white AND Italian-American because my parents were both born and raised in Italy and I have grown up with all the traditions and lifestyle, including having a home and most of my relatives still in Italy. However, if I married a non-Italian woman and we had children then I would think my children should no longer be labeled as Italian-Americans but as white Americans, period, with Italian descent.

 

Re: Re: Re: "Black" vs "African-American"

Yes, but the difference here is that if you have 2 Italian-born parents and you were raised in a household where your nonna and nonno refused to speak English to you, you might say that you still have some connections to Italy. But when your ancestors came(were forced to come) here from Africa 300 years ago and you don't have a clue which country in Africa it was, either, then you probably aren't as in touch with your roots than someone whose background fits the example above.

My grandad's Irish, but having been born and raised in Africa, I'm pretty sure he was more exposed to genuine African culture than 99% of the people who call themselves African-Americans ever will be. Doesn't he deserve that moniker more than someone who has a dashiki in their closet somewhere and think that the whole of Africa is one big country?

 

This whole topic is too funny. No need for the PC garbage.

El Urchino, I'd think yes he deserves the moniker more than others.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: "Black" vs "African-American"

This is why I posted the Octavio Paz link. It is this very reason why having some "place" is important to people-it is this "wound" that will never heal. This is something some people never come to grips with: the very notion that if you do know where your people come from, it provides you with a comfort/knowledge. To then respond to others, "oh, why don't you just be an American?"...well, that doesn't really wash. There is of course some truth to this, as you don't want to be a prisoner of your past, but that void will always be there. I think it's obvious that the degree of the void and what it means differs with people.

I think there are pros and cons to this topic; I myself like to live without lables and I do feel very much "American." But if your grandad feels Africa as home I would not have a problem with him seeing/presenting himself as African. I think what is "home" is a very personal, subjective thing. But does he "deserve" this moniker more than a black American? IMO no. And this criteria of, "well they know little about their true history/country, etc." is bogus one-one that many of Irish, German, Italian, background would fail just the same. There are posers of all ethnic stripes-something you see in spades here in New York. If some blacks want to enage in this...god bless 'em. IMO it's just part of the American condition-the natural consequence of a country built by immigrants from many countries.

 

Let me ask you this. How many on here would consider a white South African who moved to the US and took up US citizenship to be an African-American?


Alex

 

For what it's worth, journalists do not use the term African-American, or at least they're not supposed to. The official media term (except in quotes and proper nouns of course) is "black". Appropriate since a good percentage of our darker friends have closer ties to the Carribeans and South America.

While I never use African-American to refer to the race, I don't have a problem with African-American as a description for the culture. The African-American experience is one that is vastly different from the mainstream American experience and has pronounced African influences, but at the same time, it is distinctly American so it makes sense.

 

If we all came from that valley in the middle of Africa where Lucy was discovered aren't we all African-Americans?

 

There's nothing whiter than white people sitting around and coming up with scenarios where white people can be called "African-American."

 

How the hell did BYU make it into your statement? I don't remember them having any anti-black policies.

 

Oooh, I've got another one. What if Shaq and his new bride adopted one of them Romanian orphans? He'd be African-American, right?

 

The Mormon Church prohibited Black men from joining its clergy until the mid-70s or so (I believe the policy was scrapped in 1978, but I could be off a few years). No, BYU ain't the entire LDS, but they are the church's most visible educational institution.

On the main topic: I'm not sure this thread is discussing as widespread an issue as some think. After giving it some thought, I realized that I don't use "African-American" much myself, and haven't ever seen or heard any Black people correct any White people for using "Black". I and almost all the Black people I know use "Black" in every informal setting, and most formal ones. The "African-American" term is used a lot in speeches/print and in professional settings/discussions, probably in part for the reasons I mentioned in my first post.