Black People Don't Play Soccer? -- the book

This, especially regarding certain philosophies. The thoughts on sex are similiar though

 

I can't disagree with the fact that if more people played soccer in the US then the likelyhood of producing a top class soccer player would increase.
Where I do disagree (and bear in mind I am judging the book on its cover!) is that the US has "super" atheletes no other nation could possibly match made up from it's West African - American population.
There are proven genetic advantages to the West African body for certain sporting activities. Colin Jackson (a legend of UK athletics who held the 110m hurdle WR until very recently) was on a TV show over here where they measured his "fast twitch" muscles and found they were much higher than average. This trait is far more common amongst people with West African heritage. However when the best player in the world is a pasty, slight, 5ft 8" of Southern European heritage and Spain have just won the European Championship with a team of small, technically skilled players beating the lumbering giants of Germany in the final so how much genetics really matters is up for question.
And how much "poverty" is a motivation is also up for question. Kaka comes from a very middle class family, Vialli was raised in a castle and almost all the players to have come out of Germany, Holland, England etc will have enjoyed a comfortable lifestyle.

 

Jamaica fields one of the fastest teams in the world but they have had limited success. Why is that?

 

...and Italy won the World Cup with a team that wasn't particularly fast.

zrwoodard, I'm certainly all for spreading the game to all who want to play in the US. I did some part time work for several years for one of the organizations you listed. But as far as increasing the level of our national team and top players, as you state is a wish of yours, I wouldn't expect any magic bullet. A sea change that will take decades would be the best outcome, in my opinion. Almost all top level players grew up living and loving the game.

 

Woodard, don't be discouraged by the peanut gallery here. (And peanut gallery, don't be discouraged by my calling you a peanut gallery. I'm here too, after all.)

I look forward to coming across the book. And while I'm sure you've addressed this more thoroughly there, I'll ask anyway: How did you get past the psychological/social hurdles as you made your way into the sport?

Also: What's your general take on the second-generation kids of Caribbean and African immigrants? Their parents obviously come here with a devotion to soccer -- are the kids themselves maintaining that, or do they tend to assimilate into mainstream American sports as white ethnic kids did during the 20th century?

 

I would guess the guy's point was that worldwide, it's by far the sport of choice for them.


Mind you, in England we get similar questions as to why there are no players of Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi origin, when that's our biggest minority. It's not as if they don't follow the sport.

 

It's because every time they get a corner......

I played football at University, in all the trials for the actual University team there were hardly any Asian kids trying out. Yet when I played football in the sports centre I was one of 3 white guys out of about 25, the rest being Asian. Some were really good, one was exceptional, when I asked why he didn't try out for the actual Uni team he told me he couldn't spare the time from studying.

It might be a gross stereotype (and they seem to have found time for cricket which takes much longer!) but the attitude that football is a distraction from study still seems to exist.

 

I never mentioned tennis dude! LOL Hockey, Basketball, Football(american), Baseball.

And i am talking about leagues, not world championships. Fact is USA have 4 of the best 'LEAGUES" in the world. We get to watch the best of these 4 sports daily or seasonally.

But Tennis Womens' at least is dominated by Serena Williams.

And the canadians are NOT better than the US, i think their matches vs. eachother prove that. Canada has gotten better, with some interesting import of their players to spain and big leagues in the world, but they still are not quite at the USAs level.

And yes, i saw the last nadal federer match, Nadal got the poor guy crying. Wont give him that win to make him break that record.

 

"We landed on the moon!"---Loyd Christmas

I agree.
However, our dad's generation is still running the scene. The same generation that couldn't run and kick a ball at the same time to save their life. The same generation that couldn't produce 11 men, outta many millions, good enough to qualify from '54 to '86.

Bienvenidos, welcome and wuzzup bra' from bigsoccer junkies.

Solid. Why didn't you interview anyone from these boards with insight on the topics you speak of? Or did you?
I ask cuz I have spent a good ammount of time in the last decade of my life growing association football in inner city Houston.
I've got some stories to share.

Could you scan to pdf your book, at least some of it, and or send me some original saved pages in a zip file or the like so I can read it.
I'd be glad to give you my money but I got 3 kids nowadays so I gotta stretch the dollar. You feel me amigo???
I will tell you that I am very interested in your research and your thoughts on the matter.

 

I'm Black - raised in London. Spent the last 8 years in Houston and now in SA.

Soccer is not an American sport unfortunately.

Black American parents grew up watching football and basketball. They taught their kids to play football and basketball. For soccer to get into the inner city or the hood is damn near impossible.

A parent teaches a child what they KNOW. They know nothing about soccer. They have no interest in it in the inner city. For a superstar to come from the hood takes a lot of work...Ronaldinho is a like a the brightest star out of a galaxy. 1 out of millions of damn good brazilians. There aren't even a million true black americans playing soccer I'll tell you that much.

If Soccer got to the hood and dominated basketball and american football - pigs will fly. BUT IF IT DID - and kids grew up playing soccer like in Europe - then the US would be onto something.

Another thing - you aren't going to go into a black neighborhood and find a pickup soccer game - it's either basketball or football and thats it.

If a Black American parent gives her son a soccer ball and says go play with the other kids..he'd probably be playing by himself especially in a black community. Finally giving up and playing basketball and football with the other kids.

You see basketball and football on TV everyday..unless you have a special package you'd be damned to see quality soccer on television..The media has shunned Soccer. Soccer in the US is in its infancy still. Give it about 50-70 more years and it'll be in the same place American football is today hopefully.

 

I have a special package.

 

i dont mean to sound racist are anything but it seems like blackpeople only like 2 sports basketball and baseball. I mean this is why my hometown st.paul has only 2 high school hockey teams when we had all 7 schools had one just ten years ago.Baseball is also dying in the inner citys .

 

i meant to say american football
and basketball

 

I'm a native Texan from SW Houston. I will speak to what I witnessed growing up in a very diverse side of Houston.

It wasn't invented here and depending on the generation you are talking to it can be viewed not an American sport.
Those of us that grew up with the NASL were however the first generation of U.S. kids to view soccer as just another sport...that is until your team and league folds. Then you think of soccer as a rec sport but don't know of its professional side. Your point of view is just back to pro hoops, baseball and gridiron.

Correct.
The very same parents that are so very proud to claim the title African-American have zero connection to the most popular sport in Africa.
It speaks to how narrow of a world our men and women of color think and live in.

Mostly correct.
It is indeed strange in that for a segment of U.S. society that places such a high importance on getting a job in sports that the sport on the planet that provides more jobs than Wal-Mart is not more practiced.

Save the latino kids and actual Africans or Caribbean kids, but I get what you are trying to say.

see above

In Texas I have been able to watch MFL since the early 90's and a mix of every World Cup, U-20 WC, Copa America, Futbol de Playa and WCQ on free TV. Telemundo and Univision always had top notch footy.

I agree. Most program directors are of our dad's generation and don't know how to package it all.
The sport sells itself. Especially the Mundial.

I disagree. We are now in Generation +1. The infancy was the NASL and the youth soccer boom of the late 70's and early 80's, Gen X guys. Now that cycle of men has grown up and has kids playing. I'm one of these Gen X dads that saw NASL when very young and saw MLS start as a 20 something. It's been an odd path pro soccer has taken in our sports mad culture.
Our World Cups have been '90, '94, '98, '02 and '06. Now there are guys in the U.S. camp for '10 that are born the same year of Italia '90. These are the next gen of soccer in the U.S., the +1 footballers in the U.S. By the time these guys have children who start playing the sport, that is when the shift will be very visible.

College football will always be there and so will baseball but I can see the day when the NFL, because of MLS's atmosphere and the changing demographics in the U.S., just highlight the NFL as the No Fun League. It will still be a money making monster but in 50-70 years, the average sports fan will be able to view the average NFL game for what it is compared to the average WCQ match. Not even close in importance!

 

Foreign blacks are more exposed to the game, compared to American blacks. Also you have to take account that maybe alot of American blacks just arent interested in the sport. people blamming Media aka "producer's fathers generation. really dont get it. Soccer doesnt do enough to market the game thats a fact. they have been trying for years, but like i continue to say Soccer continues to fail in respecting the American sports landscape.

 

I think what people like Habitat and others who think Blacks are narrow minded when it comes to sports don't understand or realize is that basketball and football are more than just sports Black Americans play; they re ingrained inteh culture in the same way that soccer is for people in England and the rest of the world.

I've known the author for a couple of years and met him at the US-Ecuador match in Tampa a couple of years ago. So I've been waiting for the book to come out and I got a copy last week.

The overall point of the book is that there is a signficant portion of the population that doesn't particiapte in the sport. He gives reasons for this, ranging from the overall media treatment of the sport to the reasons why it hasn't been accepted in the Black American community.

Amazing that people see the title, project their own expectations of what they think the book will contain and live by their knee-jerk reactions without even reading the book.

Read the book and then decide.

 

the problem is this is a message board thread. You can hardly realistically expect people to go out and buy the book just so they can chip in to the thread.

The author's first post on the thread included the line "We only need 3-4 impact players that I believe could develop if our talent pool included a few of the superathletes that now play exclusively in the NFL and NBA.", which does strongly imply the stereotype thinking that the NFL/NBA stars are a kind of special breed, way above all other sportsmen, and if they played soccer, the USA would be unbeatable.

I'll ask again - maybe there's a chapter devoted to it in the book - but if "superathletes" are a secret weapon, then why don't teams in other countries play their "superathletes" instead of the "weedy" reject guys who play soccer currently?

There is also the elephant in the room of the question of how many of those "superathletes" attained their physique naturally?

 

I beg to differ. You probably don't know much about the history of soccer in the US, but soccer most definitely is an American sport. We have been playing soccer as long as anyone in any other country (more than some). There was a professional league here as far back as 1894, when basketball was still using peach baskets for goals, and American/Canadian football was still being formulated from rugby. It's as American as baseball. You are correct, though, in that it has only been in the last couple or three decades that soccer has been anything other than just a blip on the radar screen (mainly because we sucked at it).

Try this site: http://www.sover.net/~spectrum/

Your horizons will be greatly broadened.

 

Wtih zero mention of baseball, you've managed to answer the author's title question. Well done.
Simply put, baseball was once the iconic sport for black men in the U.S. We don't have to look any further than Jackie Robinson and Hammering Hank Aaron for their roles in our U.S. culture. Yet somewhere in the last 20 years a terribly false myth about who should play baseball grew to acceptance for black males.
This is of course nothing new to supporters of the beautiful game here in the U.S. as soccer has had its share of false myths for decades. However, since the tag is now the same for baseball and soccer and a man has taken the time to research this and write a book on what gives, it really is not hard to figure out what first inroads need to be done.

I've got two sports heroes to name drop. Bo Jackson and Deon Sanders. Once massively popular, dual sport athletes and yet one of those sports, baseball, has for the most part fallen off the urban youths radar. Specifically urban black males.
Instead of incouraging our nation's young urban males to look at pro baseball and pro soccer as even more doors to professional sports beyond football and baseketball, there are obviously those in the black community who limit avenues to a life of getting paid to play a sport.
Not logical for a segment of our U.S. culture that has sports and athletic competition so ingrained in their being and of course places tremendous praise and fame on the pro baller image. Bo knows...and then Primetime.

Look, I have been spending the last decade growing association football in inner city Houston. (so I will only speak of what is going on in Texas)
What was shocking to hear out on the urban fields, in my classroom and in the halls of the school was how the new generation of black males viewed baseball. They spoke of baseball as a white boy sport and not worthy of their time. I played my fair share of baseball growing up here in Houston and my teams and rivals always had plenty of black boys playing baseball. Often the best ones on the team.
At the same time I was out coaching soccer to urban blacks and latinos, the old black men in the neighborhood that I would meet out at the fields or at the Y would remark "what is wrong with these boys today, we used to play baseball all day out on fields littered with rocks and broken glass until the sun goes down. Now these boys couldn't be paid to go out and play baseball."
The decades old tag from the U.S. black community on soccer now somehow carries the same ignorant slant for baseball...it's a white boy sport.
So within a generation, idols of our U.S. sports culture were black men like Jackson and Sanders that excelled at pro gridiron and pro baseball. Yet somewhere along the line young black males have been sold a bag of goods on soccer and now baseball as well.

Understood.
Again what is very confusing is to explain the open door versus shut door concept to black men in the U.S. I.e. understanding the odd shift in mentality in such a short amount of time, that baseball is now chalked up along with soccer as a sport the U.S. black man should look down on in some regard.
There is a need for someone to underscore that no athlete should limit themself to just gridiron and basketball for a career. Someone with a platform to reach across black folks in the U.S. needs to be clear in the message that "if indeed pro sports is important to our community, then for God's sake lets make sure urban males have ALL THE SPORTS to choose from so that we do not limit the young man's vision."

 

I want to say something as the person who wrote the review of the book. The book has many valid points and discusses a lot of issues that I didn't have space to cover in one book review. It's a 400 page book that took a man two years to write. I'd suggest that anyone who wants to disagree with its ideas at least read it first before knocking it. I personally didn't agree with everything that it had to say, but nonetheless found it fascinating and worth reading. We all have different opinions on these issues naturally, but you've got to at least step outside your comfort zone and listen to what it says. If you still think its crap, then that's awesome. Come on here and tell everyone out there that this book is crap. But read it first before spouting out a bunch of thoughts that in some cases of what is in these 12 pages of comments has absolutely nothing to do with what the book is about or is generalizing the topic too heavily.

 

Once sportscenter shows more highlights and kids find out the MLS pays well(some day) then soccer will break out in the African-American commuity. everyone has access to soccer in America, at least from a street level like in S. America.. Soccer is a cheap sport just like Basketball.. all you need is a ball and some shoes. all this acess to soccer is BS.

 

^^^Yea def a good point about ESPN. They neglect Soccer COMPLETLEY!

 

How bout BET and fox sports net? and VS, and so on...

 

While I don't disagree with the author's points, I am amused that soccer fans/pundits in the U.S. always feel the need to go down this road. "We rule the sports world in everything except soccer...there must be a reason. We got it--not enough blacks!"

This is a hoary conceit. Case in point:

Soccer For American Spectators by Basil Kane, 1970 A.S. Barnes and Co., Inc.

Of course, we're still waiting.

The mere presence of blacks will guarantee nothing; African nations have achieved precious little in World Cups and, last time I checked, they were predominantly black.

The inquiry needs to focus on this: when soccer becomes enough of a mainstream sport in this country that it can attract the top athletes, regardless of color, then we will become a world power.

 

I agree about the african nations, but what about that French Team in '98, and the french team in 02' and '06? there was adecnt amout of Black on thier from africa. or had african roots..... and also lets not forget how alot of the Euro Club teams get alot of them while they are young so they dont spend alot of time in thier home or maybe with thier international teammates to develop into a serious power yet.. Altough I can say the west african countries like Ghana, Ivory and Nigeria are sure doing something about it. And dont forget cameroon.