Black People Don't Play Soccer? -- the book

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by Scotty, Feb 8, 2009.

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  1. AguiluchoMerengue

    Oct 4, 2008
    South Carolina
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    You dont need to throw big numbers in there.

    Take a look at the best 10 players ever.

    Pele, Maradona, Garrincha and the top of the list are going to be "getho" players from the hood.

    The only true upper middle class that I have heard of is Batistuta, and again there may be a few richies in there but not, most of them came from lower income families, and nobody is saying lower income athletes are naturally the best. Is the way they live in our societies.

    Middle class kids go to school become teachers and bankers.

    Poor kids barely finish high school and go to work.

    Sports for many "gheto" kids are the only way out of poverty, the only shot at not working on a factory making 9 dollars per hour.

    To be a professional athlete for a working class kid is like become a doctor or a lawyer for a middle class kid.

    Get it? Nobody is saying they are the best athletes, we are saying they take the sport waaaaayyyy more serious, is part of their culture.

    We dont need Newton to figure that out.

    Not just soccer but competitive soccer needs to be introduce to the lower class, like that other guys said, not just blacks, but hispanics and whites too. Yes not all working class folks are colored.

    With the examples of Pele, Maradona, Ronaldo, Cruff, then you can come up with the conclusion that the lower class athletes are dominant with a very few exceptions from the upper middle clasess whos sports are usually tennis or golf.
     
  2. THOMA GOL

    THOMA GOL BigSoccer Supporter

    Jul 16, 1999
    Frontier
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Back in the day peeps would say to me how Blacks don't play soccer, this and that:rolleyes:. I'd laugh at them and mention with wit that globally, soccer is more popular amongst people of color than say, basketball. They'd then mumble a reply back like Scooby Doo.
     
  3. AguiluchoMerengue

    Oct 4, 2008
    South Carolina
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Ask them what color is Pele...

    Soccer is not more popular with colored people, soccer is popular in all races and social classes.

    True that in some countries, soccer is the sport of the working class though, not the case in the US.
     
  4. DCUdiplomat96

    DCUdiplomat96 Member

    Mar 19, 2005
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You have the BLACK AMERICAN market to cater to too i wonder how MLS gonna mess that one up.:rolleyes:
     
  5. zrwoodard

    zrwoodard New Member

    Apr 9, 2006
    Tampa
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Judging from some of the responses I've gotten here a couple of things are clear. Only one person indicated he would even read the book. Several flatly implied that soccer is a super special sport that will never change its demographics in America and even if it does it won't change the nation's fortunes.

    Please don't be so narrow minded about the Kobe comparison. To quote Kobe himself, 'what if I grew up playing soccer with all the passion I had for basketball and realy applied myself'. Are we so jaded we can't imagine an American learning to do the amazing things with a soccer ball that Kobe can do with a basketball. Sports is evolution in action. Sports today bear little resemblance to what I knew growing up in the Sixties. This book takes you on a journey that should give you hope that the US could one day be something special in soccer but only if a lot of people drop their shields, open their minds and become visionaries with a purpose.

    Speaking of visionaries, I found a story of a coach that back in the '70's made a leap of faith defying conventional wisdom. He took an oversized kid to let him run his offense when everyone else said it was impossible. That kid went on to be an iconic figure. Do you know who the player and coach were? More importantly is there a soccer coach out there who can help develop our version of a worldwide superstar player?
     
  6. AguiluchoMerengue

    Oct 4, 2008
    South Carolina
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    I think the book and website names are quite controversials.

    1. Black people to play soccer, africans, play it, black brazilians play it, africans borned and living in europe play the sport.

    2. Black pleople in the states do play soccer, but not competitive soccer.

    Very few big competitive black athletes play competitive soccer.

    Now that is what is missing.

    Think for instance latin america. A lot of white upper class would prefer golf, tennis or basketball.

    Now that EPL and North America is shining, a lot of white "latinos" are trying to break into soccer too.

    Im not saying all rich latins dont play soccer, they just didnt take it serious bc the US did not take it serious and you know the US has been the bigger example for most of whites upper class in the Americas.

    Point is, EPL is doing pretty good lately. the US is already beating Mexico, and Tennis and Basketball are having a hard time competiting vrs soccer globabablly.

    I think competitive black getho man, and getho latinos and gheto whites (if there is any) are going to be great for the sport.

    Yes, in a lower income family sports are more than just sports, its life! Something many of you dont understand. My mom comes from a working class family, I have cousins living in the "hood" in Los Angeles and El Salvador.
     
  7. salvikicks

    salvikicks Member+

    Mar 6, 2006
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    just because baron davis played in a pick up game in new york with steve nash doesnt mean he grew up playin soccer some of those players became fans when they were already past theyre childhood and teens. being a good athelete doesnt equal instant succes in any sport youre always gonna need lots of skill to go along.
     
  8. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

    May 2, 2001
    Berkshire
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    That isn't that rare. I have a programme from the Football League v Rest of the World match in 1988, which featured an England U16 squad of...

    Matthew Alexander
    Simon Charlton
    Andy Cole
    Scott-Arron Houghton
    Jason Kavanagh
    Paul Mitchell
    Olisa Morah
    William Seymour
    Bryan Small
    Jonathan Stanger
    Paul Towler
    Michael Turner
    Ian Walker
    Steven Walters
    Paul Williams.

    They were considered the best U16s in England at the time, but how many of them have you even heard of?


    Overall though, if you re sensing hostility it's because "if player x from the NFL and player y from the NBA played soccer, they'd be world class" do the rounds fairly regularly here from people who regard the athlete of that bodyshape and size to be an inherently superior athlete, who usually go on to state the USA would dominate the game if only they played. Quite a few American fans who have actually thought about it and realised that if packing your team full of 6'6" guys was the key to success, then other countries would be doing it. Mind you, Tony Pulis at Stoke seems to be giving it a go.
     
  9. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    Two points here:

    One, black players in the US have a long and mostly-ignored contribution to American soccer at the collegiate, pro and national team level.

    From Gil Heron going to Celtic because of his strong play in the ASL to Joe Gaetjens goal against England to Howard's 1974 all black team being the last NCAA DI men's team to go unbeaten and untied to Thompson Usiyan being the NCAA's all-time (D-I) scoring leader (Dante Washington holds the all-time assists record) to that Pele dude, Clive Charles, Clyde Best and Ade Coker leading a slew of black players starring in the NASL to Des Armstrong and Jimmy Banks starting for the US at Italia 90 to Earnie Stewart scoring the game-winner against Colombia at the 94 WC to Eddie Pope becoming MLS' first home-grown star to Cobi shattering the caps record to Robin Fraser being one of the best defenders in MLS history to Beasley, Adu, Jozy and a slew of black kids dominating at Bradenton, black players have made great contributions to the history of American soccer.

    So, this recent infusion is nothing new.

    What is new is the numbers of black players and how many of them are American or were raised in the US. We're going from an era where guys like Armstrong or Cobi were the "black player" to an era where blacks will either be close to or have a majority of the slots on the national team.

    It won't be at all surprising to see a WC roster in 2010 with the likes of Tim Howard, Oguchi Onyewu, Marvell Wynne, Ricardo Clark, Maurice Edu, DeMarcus Beasley, Freddy Adu, Jozy Altidore and Charlie Davies.

    At Bradenton, most of the more highly-regarded prospects are black: Renken, Jerome, Gyau, Edwards, Korona, etc... In MLS, 4 of the last 6 first overall picks have been black (Adu 04, Wynne 06, Edu 07, Zakuani 09). The last two MAC Hermann winners (O'Brian White and Marcus Tracy) have been black.

    Combined with the contributions from Lations and, to a lesser degree, Asians, and there's absolutely no question the national team and American soccer in general are getting browner.

    Of that there is no debate.

    Having said all that, it doesn't mean the US is suddenly gonna be a dominant world soccer power because the national team is browner. But, the notion in the US that soccer is just a lilly-white sport played by white suburban kids should pretty much be put to rest.
     
  10. VAComet85

    VAComet85 Member

    Dec 23, 2007
    Tampa Bay, FL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think you just proved my first point, most of your post was the mass generalizations that we've all heard for decades. (Poor kids never amount to anything, upper-class kids don't have the drive to make it pro sports, etc.) It's so tired and outdated, I mean in this generation those statements just aren't the truth as much as one would believe.

    Yes, I 'get it' that many famous players are from poorer backgrounds. That doesn't take away from the fact that it would interesting to see the figures on a larger scale. You can rattle off all of the stereotypes you want about the different economic classes but the bottomline is that it would be fascinating to see the hard numbers.
     
  11. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

    Apr 12, 2004
    Fairfax, Va
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    I think our coaches in this country is still not up to par world wide, they are still living on old theories on how the game should be played, long and ugly, with not too much focus on technical play.

    Our country's coaches arent ready either to develop a world class talent.
     
  12. scarshins

    scarshins Member

    Jun 13, 2000
    fcva
    nice post Sandon.

    thing is, mr. author, it's much more about the culture than it is about individuals.

    and soccer here, at least the better parts of it, already has a great deal of diversity.
     
  13. zrwoodard

    zrwoodard New Member

    Apr 9, 2006
    Tampa
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I am honestly at a lost for words. I spent two years and God knows how much money traveling around the country for the single purpose of helping spread the game. The responses here generally focus on the title without a single poster having read the book or understanding the title. So for clarity's sake, the title Black People Don't Play Soccer comes from my personal experience and those of several African American players who had that question. (Black People Don't Play Soccer????) asked of them because it is an absurdity. I am black as are so many others. The difference is that many of us come from the same middle class background as most American soccer players. As some of you correctly mentioned, soccer stars in other countries typically come from the working poor. To those who insinuate that soccer is some mystical game that is somehow above any other loses the plot. It is a game plain and simple where talent, desire, opportunity and luck all play a role in that magical 1% who become the ones we pay to see on Saturday afternoon.

    Do I absolutely know that having African American athletes participating on a large scale will dramatically improve the fortunes of US Soccer? Of course not. Does it make sense to ignore the same population that has disproportionate success in athletics? Not to me it doesn't and if you read any articles on the subject written in the last ten years, there is universal agreement something needs to be done.

    I just happen to be one of the few players of my generation and decided I would take the hits.

    The book is based on many layers of research including nearly a week spent in the National Soccer Hall of Fame archives. I joined the National Soccer Coaches Association of America and became active in the Black Soccer Coaches Committee for the purpose of helping others. Some of the best information I received came from traveling to Philadelphia to meet with representatives from the Urban Soccer Collaborative including MLS, the US Soccer Foundation, Soccer in the Streets, America Scores and over twenty other urban soccer clubs looking to develop as a unified front. So the book is not the opinion of one person, it is a composite of over 100 years of soccer history including American Soccer's Golden Years, the introduction of blackplayers in England, their struggles and how England overcame widespread racism to today's multicultural - multiethnic teams. It is a historical analysis with stories about players as Sandon so accurately brought up. I won't claim to have uncovered anything new about these players but I sought to consolidate them in one convienient location.

    Not meaning to offend but one of the issues I have with soccer message boards is that it is a place to hide out and fight among other soccer fans rather than build the game through social networking. Soccer has enormous potential. It can be bigger and better than it is today. I wrote to book to provide information and create a constructive dialogue that runs a little deeper than is typical in the boards where we insult and downgrade each other.

    I'll be happy to respond to posters with serious questions and comments about the book. However, for reasons which should be obvious, I have no desire to argue here about the concept and contents of the book with someone who has not read it.
     
  14. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

    Apr 12, 2004
    Fairfax, Va
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    I want to read your book! Im just a poor college kid though, i'll pay shipping cost if you want to send it to me. :p


    But truthfully, it really doesnt have nothing to do with race, we need to get the kids that all they do is play basketball, and watch AND 1 mixtapes, try to do what they see, play all day and night on the basketball court, with fancy moves, etc.

    Same thing goes on with soccer around the world. Theres kids out there instead of going to school or doing anything productive, like the kids from the hood' here, they too are stuck at the street soccer courts(in south america) that have goals like we have basketlball courts. They watch their favorite players on TV, try to do what they do, play day and night and say screw school, one day i will be a pro.

    From that point on, its all on the developers of youth'. US isnt ready to break down a street balling kid who is somewhat of a 'ballhog'. They just dont see potential in kids like this who avoid the whole Travel Soccer completely and maybe at best will play HS soccer.

    We dont have deep enough connection to finding these kids in this country, we only scout ODP, maybe a little HS, and pure travel soccer.

    Well guess what, theres alot of good kids, with talent that cant afford to lpay travel. These IMO are the kids that slip through the US soccer's fingers. Sooner or later i hope we can get our hands on these kids, and make soccer another popular option for the kids looking to make it out of poverty in this country through athletics.
     
  15. scarshins

    scarshins Member

    Jun 13, 2000
    fcva
    how can you pose your questions to a bunch of strangers and expect them to have read the book? I can't respond to your book but I can respond to your earlier posts.

    why has the US not produced a single top level superstar field player, but we have a couple really excellent goalkeepers? it's in the culture, I think. that's all I meant. you can't produce very top level talent when they don't have excellent players around them from a very young age.
     
  16. AguiluchoMerengue

    Oct 4, 2008
    South Carolina
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    go find the numbers then, we can compare it, im not going to get mad if you prove me wrong, as long as you dont come back calling me stupid, illegal immigrant or just insulting me.

    im going to be clear, im not perfect (pretty close to it :D) but i could be wrong, you just have to prove it on a professional way, or respectfull way.

    Number could how that working class athletes are better at sports, but numbers can show also that upper class athletes are better on tennis and golf.

    If the majority of good soccer players came from an upper middle class, then i would not argue with that.

    my point is, the majority of GREAT soccer players come from a working class family.

    Was Michael Jordan from the Ghetto? idk, was kobe from the Ghetto? idk, Ali? Tyson, oh yeah I know Mikey was street hood from NYC.

    Nobody wants the US national team to be brown, we want the US national team to be a world champion which is different. If you have had a team since 1950 full of white upper middle class players and you have not succed in fact you have embarrase this great country and american soccer fans and soccer players in general, why not let browns and working class whites to jump into the game?

    I know is changing but it hasnt been easy, I remember 2 years ago when we had "lotharus" and " CollegeHarvard" saying their academies were great, they didnt need inferior races or idelogies to be part of soccer in this country. What happend to all those American soccer scientologist when the States only tied with an own goal vrs Italy in the world cup?

    Where were all those soccer gods odps coaches when the States got completely emabarrased in the past Copa America?

    Where were all you when Joe Publics and Tauros and USL teams embarrased MLS teams?

    Little by little we have been helping the league trying to find out whats good and whats not, whats better for American soccer and what have to be changed.

    To the Author I can tell that his actions are great, he may have some things to change in his next book but he is trying to reach a community that has been ignorared by MLS, the competitive black men.

    Think of me posting a rap song in the MLS "general" forum and it was moved to the mls "fans" forum as soon as a publiched the lyrics of the rap song, somehow if you publish a U2 song is ok but as soon as you come out with a 50 cent song your ideas dont deserve to be there, how interesting is that?
     
  17. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    Robert,

    Slightly off topic but in your travels and research for the book, what, if anything, did you hear about the glaring lack of black coaches at the collegiate and pro levels?
     
  18. MNAFETSC

    MNAFETSC Member

    Feb 5, 2000
    Blacksburg
    I don't know why you would be. This is bigsoccer, land of knee jerk responses based which are rarely based on facts, especially when responding to perceived criticism of the sport. The topic of your book is nothing new, at least for people with a set of eyes. I went to a pretty diverse school, a good mix of white, black, filipino, and hispanic (mainly puerto ricans) and the sports teams reflected that diversity, except for the soccer teams which were overwhelmingly white.

    I think Allen Iverson said it perfectly when meeting Theirry Henry "Where I come from we dont play soccer!"

    http://www.theoffside.com/world-football/the-newest-soccer-fan-allen-iverson.html
     
  19. DCUdiplomat96

    DCUdiplomat96 Member

    Mar 19, 2005
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States


    Is your book in stores or just on the internet?... It will be Friday when ill order .... I wanted to know you specific take. .. yes i understand there are Black soccer players in MLS and US national team. to me i dont beleive they(not necessarily) or thier specific teams/clubs market them. Let alone for MLS the Team. Too me where im originally from DC United has a sucessful soccer franchise for years but, In my opinion, still has struggle to grasp a decent sense of resepct and recognition from fans and potential fans from the inner city of DC. ... DC is Good example cause it is one of the most diverse places around, and one of the most divisive.... I also Beleive that DCU could have thier own SSS built by now if they had invested more in the community at WARD8 area(south of the Anacostia). i even heard some people say that Freddy Adu was a good example, but I didnt think so. i like Adu, believe me i do. But I dont think we would have related to the kids of SE and NE DC for example. ... Another poster wrote about the lack of public soccer fields in DC. that can also have a impact on the community especially city govt running most city parks or athletic facilities.... Indeed i like soccer to succeed, especially in the Black(american) communities. hope to hear from you.
     
  20. DCUdiplomat96

    DCUdiplomat96 Member

    Mar 19, 2005
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    this issue i have right here.. My question is this How many Black coaches is enough???..... I remeber on of the 2Live stews vividly saying that if a team has a majority black roster, then the headcoach should be black..? wTF, im not starting nothing negative but i am trying to prove a point. You when is what okay before someone crys racism. Im Black but i dont not agree with the 2live stews comment about headcoaches. it should be the best candidates, who qualify. Color shouldnt be a issue.
     
  21. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Off topic for the thread... but is Gil Heron of any relation to present-day referee Richard Heron?
     
  22. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Besides that, the demographics of coaches shouldn't necessarily represent the demographics of current players - coaches are, of course, former players, and very few are younger than 40, so the coaching pool tends to be more like what the player pool was a generation ago.
     
  23. AguiluchoMerengue

    Oct 4, 2008
    South Carolina
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    as much as we need to beat joe publics and tauros fcs.

    lets be honest, the game of soccer has been in the white middle upper classes for how many years? whats the success they have achieved?

    2 or 3 gold cups? 2 or 3 concacaf champions leagues? in what 50 years of soccer history in this country?

    if you gone have the rich white man running the sport, please make sure you win, we dont want little journalist calling us losers, and we dont want fat baseball fans calling us or our sport "ga.y" for not winning anything.
     
  24. DCUdiplomat96

    DCUdiplomat96 Member

    Mar 19, 2005
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    lack of Black headcoaches, especially in major US sports is apparently a issue to certain people in the Black community. makes you wonder why still have a Black coaches association? or better yet a NAACP?
     
  25. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    I think we've already established that the player pools of the past were less lilly white than some folks like to assume.

    The problem most certainly is not a lack of qualified former black players out there to become coaches.
     

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