BL MD 33: Leipzig - BVB

Discussion in 'Borussia Dortmund' started by hava, Jun 20, 2020.

  1. astrophyz

    astrophyz Member

    Sep 23, 2016
    Boston, USA
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Egypt
    I agree. But I think it's also absurd that Bayern only lost 2 points since like December. It's not just down to us, when there isn't the random occasional hiccup where a team takes 2 or 3 points from Bayern. Something is wrong with all teams when they play Bayern.

    This generally doesn't happen in England. Is it related to the fact that less talented teams there can just be extra physical, and get some points that way? I think probably related to how they approach the games against the top teams.
     
  2. naopon

    naopon Member+

    Jan 2, 2007
    California
    Club:
    Kawasaki Frontale
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Happy to see a good win in front of the away "crowd" and to see the team show up to play despite BVB not having anything riding on the outcome. Kind of a flat performance from Leipzig as well, Werner in particular looked disinterested given that he's not even sticking around for the Champions League resumption. Almost felt like both coaches were using the game to try out personnel and ideas for next season.

    Teams in the bottom of the PL table (and some in the Championship) are richer and deeper than small Buli clubs, plus the top half can compete with the whole world for stars - Mourinho manages the 8th place team (which is still paying Pochettino), and the 6th place squad is paying the likes of Pogba and De Gea. So there is a parity effect of sorts both throughout the league and within the big clubs.

    Plus I think the English fixture calendar with 4 more league matches and 2 domestic cups wears on the top teams over the course of the season. I think there is a point to be made that smaller Buli teams just write off their 2 Bayern matches every year, but you could also say that 1) the Bundesliga has less talent beyond the top 3 or so and 2) Bayern is really good and are strong enough to win the PL as well.
     
  3. Alex C

    Alex C Member+

    Oct 27, 2015
    Chatham
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    The EPL does have more strength in depth. That being said in the head to head in the CL/EL this season the BL leads 6-1 with 16 goals for and 7 against.

    What the BL needs is more clubs to follow Dortmund's financial model and sensibly grow into clubs with revenues closer to the top 10-20 in Europe. There is no reason that can't happen given the population and economic status of the country. The Rhein Ruhr region for example is the third richest metropolitan area in Europe.

    Overall I would say that teams like Hertha, Hamburg, Koln, Frankfurt and Stuttgart have potential to be far stronger.
     
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  4. Alex C

    Alex C Member+

    Oct 27, 2015
    Chatham
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    It won't happen, but I think it would be interesting for some teams to swap countries for a year or two.

    I think the elite clubs like Bayern, Real, Barca, Liverpool, City and Juve would challenge for the title in any league, so it would be more interesting to see how the current Dortmund and Leipzig squads would do in the EPL or La Liga for example and how well someone like Man Utd, Spurs, Atletico or Sevilla with their current squads would do in the BL.
     
  5. naopon

    naopon Member+

    Jan 2, 2007
    California
    Club:
    Kawasaki Frontale
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agreed, the astonishing idiocy and incompetence of some of the Traditionsvereine is common knowledge yet somehow not talked about enough. Maybe there is cognitive dissonance with the image of the technocratic and orderly German society, or perhaps it feels dirty to suggest that the attachment to institutional legacy can enable club boardrooms being filled with homogeneous, thoroughly mediocre individuals. German football’s local character is a valuable cultural asset, but it needs to coexist with good, modern administration to stay relevant internationally.

    In any case it’s good to see the likes of Frankfurt and Gladbach finding some direction lately. Also kind of curious how Stuttgart will look if/when they return to 1.BL next year.
     
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  6. Alex C

    Alex C Member+

    Oct 27, 2015
    Chatham
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    It says a lot when you have Leverkusen, Wolfsburg, Hoffenheim and Freiburg all in the top 8.

    No disrespect to any of them but these are clubs with 25-30k fans at most, whereas much bigger clubs like Schalke, Koln and especially Bremen are struggling and Stuttgart and Hamburg are in 2. Liga. And then you have Kaiserslautern even worse then that in the 3. Liga. So many badly managed clubs.
     
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  7. astrophyz

    astrophyz Member

    Sep 23, 2016
    Boston, USA
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Egypt
    Yes. Exactly. Why has that not happened before, like in the last 10-20 years??

    Now that's interesting. So you're basically saying the clubs are run by idiots who are there for historical reasons. I thought that Germans are the best at approaching things (like management in this case) with a very scientific, evidence based approach. I guess not all of them.
     
  8. naopon

    naopon Member+

    Jan 2, 2007
    California
    Club:
    Kawasaki Frontale
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, I don't have the details in my head but it seems like the usual stories of drama and disaster behind the big underachieving clubs involve nepotism, installing underqualified officials on the basis of their past ties to the club, and/or arrogant and unsavory executives. It all sounds very insular and it's not as if they are scouring the continent or the world for the best professionals and modern ideas in sports management, whereas the "new money" clubs and top tier of the EPL do boast strong marketing operations, match/data analysis, cutting edge sports science, and proven business managers from Barca, US sports, etc. The diversity (or lack thereof) of continental clubs' management teams was something also mentioned as a factor in a surprisingly interesting conversation between Gab Marcotti and Grant Wahl the other day.

    Long story short, if the clubs could just get their shit together I think there is a more compelling story for the Bundesliga, not just domestically but internationally. Imagine if Köln was known for winning football matches in addition to having a live goat as a mascot.
     
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