Discussion in 'Elections' started by Rostam, May 27, 2009.
Thanks to 1Bob, Mani and others for all the efforts on this thread
This is a great dramatic video from today, showing the riot police on motorcycles charging the Green protesters, and Mousavi supporters garbing one of the policemen who was charging them. After which, a few of the younger supporters start beating him up, and set his bike on fire, but the other Mousavi supporters intervene to rescue the very same policeman who was attacking them moments earlier:
[ame="http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=01e_1244983978"]LiveLeak.com - Iran -- Riot Control Officers surrounded[/ame]
Since posting on bigsoccer, one of the things that gave me the greatest pride is seeing unity among the Iranian posters here, despite many attempts to crack at that unity. I regret that the heavily partisan nature of this election has succeeded in doing what so many of the Iran ill-wishers failed to accomplish. I do not want to be posting here if my posts are going to create divisions among Iranian posters. Therefore, this will be my last message here for now, maybe returning a year to see how things are at bigsoccer -- and to share my views of how things have been in Iran in the interim.
For my last message, let me note that Ahmadinejad just finished giving a speech in front of hundreds of thousands of supporters who had packed Vali Asr square in central Tehran and all the surrounding avenues. The speech was not really notable, except for one comment that I felt hit at the heart of the supposed controversy over the election results. Ahmadinejad mentioned that before coming to give this speech, he had asked if any formal complaints had been filed by any of the candidates contesting the election results and had been told no such complaints had been filed. Yet, we all know that the candidates who were unhappy with the results have complained and alleged fraud in this election. We all know that they have taken those allegations to the public. If this trend is allowed, I regret that Iran will not be able to hold elections that are free and vibrant, because inevitably some candidates lose an election despite having many supporters on their side. If every time a candidate that loses is allowed to first look to his supporters to reverse the results, and not to the legal channels available, what Iran will have is anarchy and nothing that would resemble a democratic choice.
I am confident that the controversies surrounding this election will soon die down and that attempts by outsiders to fuel the partisan differences within Iran will fail. But I am worried that some of the bitterness left from this election will persist and that even some of the best intentioned Iranians might find themselves unwittingly doing things that will ultimately help none of their causes but the cause of those who wish this nation ill. I hope my worries are misplaced and that when I come back to bigsoccer in a year or thereabouts, what I will have to share will be mostly positive news about a nation that is moving ahead resolutely, proud of its past and hopeful of its future, setting its own path, learning from its mistakes, getting up when it falls down, never ready to surrender to unjust claims but never too arrogant to make peace with its adversaries when such peace is on just terms.
Thanks to all those who in the past stood by me here when I needed them on my side. And my apology if my heartfelt and sincere views on the issues we have been discussing have disappointed you. I cannot change my views, but I can assure you that they are inspired by no calculation other what I feel is best for Iran.
Statistical Report Purporting to Show Rigged Iranian Election Is Flawed
By Nate Silver
Excellent analysis of the numbers involved by Nate Silver. He goes out of his way to point out he's not saying there was no fraud - he's just pointing out the mathematical inconsistencies in the report (which Mani referenced earlier in the thread).
Mousavi's last letter indicated that he had already filed formal protest with the Guardian Council.
To complete !Bob's analysis, here is a graphic showing how the Iranian political system works.
i have now seen those "leaked" stats in several more outlets (Daily Kos, Sullivan), but they all seem to have the same source. is there any sort of independent verification of those, or are they just hearsay?
riot police on motorcycles?
they cannot be effective for very long; I assume the authorities have the army ready if it is needed
If these numbers are true ...
Meanwhile, CNN, MSNBC and Fox News continue not to give a damn about any of this.
Good riddance. Please do us all a favor and don't come back.
Do you have any idea how ********ing pathetic it is that you see national unity amongst posters on a ********ing soccer message board as something important?
Who am I kidding...of course you don't.
those were the numbers i was referring too. they seem to have gotten their start on the Daily Kos, but it appears that someone from this board is the real source:
a lot of the things the Kos author passes on have also been said on this site. i don't want to get anybody in trouble, but if they can verify this information then it would be very helpful. because those numbers sound just as ludicrous as the "official" numbers. but they are starting to spread, and if they are false then spreading them doesn't do anybody any good.
So now i'm Jewish? I wish you people would make up your minds, first i'm an anti-semite and now I'm Jewish Go figure. Don't assume too much mr. apologist, it just makes you look foolish.
I remember that several months ago, umarfm told me I was wrong to doubt IM's good faith. Now even iranians realize he's full of crap.
You call it unity, the others call it blind tribalism.
And unity is overrated anyway.
Rezai has lodged an official complaint, saying that his observers at the polling stations, had reported over 3.5 million votes cast for Rezai, to his campaign's main headquarter.
This further validates the numbers Bob and Knave had posted.
So only now people have figured out IM is a mouthpiece?
Can we please stick on topic rather than talking about Iranian Monitor? Let's not derail this thread.
thanks for the link and partial translation. however, i don't think this validates much unless there is supporting documentation.
for those interested, i've been trying to keep track of all the reports (including many posted on this site) here.
and Zakaria just said on CNN that his "strong sense" is that the thing was rigged. quite frankly, the U.S. press is practically unanimous on this point.
Oh, I don't know. I think just about everyone figured that out a long time ago.
Last time around, they imported Hizbollah troops from Lebanon, since the local troops couldnt bring themselves to shoot their own.
IM, I think the vote was rigged based on the margin of victory and the rampant unrest right now. I like your reasoning and you bring up interesting points but I strongly disagree with AN's rhetroic and policies and the Iranian ayatollah/mullah leadership. I think Iran is a natural ally to the West/Israel and Iran is reducing a lot of potential economic growth and electing someone other than AN would have done a lot symbolically to help the Obama administration restore diplomatic ties with the United States.
Not sure where IM resides, but Vali Asr street is as Tehran as you can get
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSECAvBTanQ&feature=player_embedded"]YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.[/ame]
The protests in Shiraz have turned extremely violent, with dozens of riot policemen injured. The protesters in Shiraz have effectively taken over the city.
Yep. I have to say, this thread is quite something and I appreciate the input of all the Iranians. Even IM - although in his case I wish he would address things instead of share his little anecdotes which scream "propaganda".
To Mani especially thanks for keeping this thread going and on topic.
It'll be interesting to see what happens with the official protests/appeals filed all while being forced to deal with the unrest we see.
i'm only watching CNN, but this stuff has dominated the coverage for the past few hours. Zakaria just did an hour on it, and Christiane Amanpour has been giving live updates every half hour or so (or whenever she has a satellite connection) since Ahmadinejad's speech.