So I was bored again and compiled a list... straight up, 250 best players ever and I'll definitely need your help for improvement. - Without order - Only retired players Albert Ademir Ademir de Guia Altafini Andrade Jose Leandro Andrade Victor Antognoni Ardiles Artime Asparukhov Baggio Baresi Batistuta Beckenbauer Belanov Bene Bergkamp Bergomi Best Bettega Bican Binder Franz Blanc Blanchflower Blokhin Bloomer Bochini Boniek Boniperti Bozsik Braine Raymond Brehme Breitner Cabrini Cafu Canhoteiro Cantona Careca Carlos Albert Carrizo Charles Charlton Chumpitaz Cobbold W.N. Coluna Combi Conti Costacurta Crompton Cruyff Cubillas Czibor Dalglish Dasaev De Vecchi Dean Desailly Deyna di Stefano Didi Djalma Santos Dobrin Domingos da Guia Dzajic Edwards Elkjaer Erico Eusebio Facchetti Falcao Ferreyra Bernabe Figo Figueroa Fillol Finney Fontaine Förster K.H Francescoli Friedenreich Gallacher Hughie Garrincha Gento Gerson Gilmar Giresse Greaves Gren Grosics Gullit Hagi Haller Hamrin Hanappi Hansen Hapgood Hässler Hidegkuti Hierro Hofman Jairzinho James Janes Jennings Johnstone Julinho Kahn Keane Keegan Kempes Kocsis Koeman Kohler Konrad Kalman Kopa Krol Kubala Labruna Lato Laudrup Michael Lawton Liedholm Lineker Loustau Lubanski Luis Pereira Luis Suarez Mackay Maier Maldini Maradona Marzolini Masopust Matthäus Matthews Mazurkiewicz Mazzola Sandro Mazzola Valentino McGrory Meazza Minelli Monti Moore Moreno Mortensen Morton Müller Nasazzi Nedved Neeskens Nejedly Netto Netzer Nilton Santos Nordahl Ocwirk Ohaco Alberto Ondrus Orsi Overath Passarella Pedernera Pele Pesek Karel Peyroteo Pfaff Piola Planicka Platini Pontoni Rene Prohaska Puskas Rahn Rattin Redondo Rensenbrink Rijkaard Riva Rivelino Rivera Robson Rocha Pedro Romario Romerito Ronaldo Rosetta Virginio Rossi Nestor Rossi Paolo Ruggeri Rui Costa Rummenigge Rush Samitier Sammer Sanchez Hugo Santamaria Sarosi Sastre Savicevic Scarone Schiaffino Schiavio Schlosser Schmeichel Schnellinger Schuster Scifo Scirea Seeler Sekularac Seoane Shesternev Shilton Simonsen Sindelar Sivori Smith G.O. Souness Spencer Stabile Stoichkov Stojkovic Streltsov Szepan Tardelli Thuram Tigana Tostao Van Basten Van Hanegem Van Himst Varela Vasovic Vogts Voronin Valery Vukas Walter Fritz Weah Wilkes Woodward Vivian Wright Billy Yashin Zagallo Zamora Zarra Zebec Zenga Zico Zidane Zizinho Zoff Just tell me which players should be cut in your opinion and their replacement. I'm especially interested in arguments which pre-50s players and eastern European players belong.
Ballon d'or winners should be automatic picks IMHO (well... except Owen and Cannavaro) so I vote for JPP. Okocha was a clown (though a very skilled one ).
I would suggest adding this guy - Jair Can't imagine whom you would remove though, looking at your current list.
Papin, Tresor and Jair for sure. Any suggestions who to remove? Asparughkov ... Minelli? Nah to Okocha ... talent players but just didn't do enough with it.
He was one of the 1st to come to mind. I wasn't sure if you'd excluded him deliberately or not - the same for Klinsmann. There are obviously quite a few I'd include in my top 250 not listed, but also some of the older ones (not the likes of Bican, Sindelar who I'd be pretty sure about or Puskas, Hidegkuti, Kocsis who I know enough of to definately include) I'm not sure I know enough to say whether I'd leave them out - I'd probably have to research. Overall, very good list. Some of the main ones I'd feel should probably be considered too good to be left out would include for example Davor Suker and Glenn Hoddle (I can put videos of these if it helps to decide too) and there's also these two: Denis Law: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ONqxJV__fE"]YouTube - Denis Law - Stretford End King![/ame] Brian Laudrup: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGWXJKAtGTc"]YouTube - Brian Laudrup[/ame] Have you considered Pierre Littbarski or Jorginho?
No active players. Klinsmann, Law, Banks, Socrates and Leonidas are among some I just forgot to include.
Upated list, new players bolded: Albert Flórián Ademir Marques de Menezes Ademir da Guia Altafini José Andrade José Andrade Víctor Rodrígeuz Antognoni Giancarlo Ardiles Osvaldo Artime Luis Baggio Roberto Banks Gordon Baresi Franco Batistuta Gabriel Beckenbauer Franz Belanov Ihor Bergkamp Dennis Bergmark Orvar Bergomi Giuseppe Best George Bettega Roberto Bican Josep Binder Franz Blanc Laurent Blanchflower Danny Blokhin Oleg Bloomer Steve Bobek Stjepan Bochini Ricardo Boniek Zbigniew Boniperti Giampiero Bozsik József Brehme Andreas Breitner Paul Cabrini Antonio Cafu Canhoteiro Cantona Eric Careca Carlos Alberto Torres Carrizo Amadeo César Cueto Charles John Charlton Bobby Chumpitaz Héctor Cobbold William Coluna Mário Conti Bruno Crompton Bob Cruyff Johan Cubillas Teófilo Czibor Zoltán Dalglish Kenny Dasayev Rinat Davids Edgar De Vecchi Renzo Deák Ferenc Dean Dixie Desailly Marcel Deyna Kazimierz Di Stéfano Alfredo Didi Djalma Santos Domingos da Guia Donadoni Roberto Džajić Dragan Edwards Duncan Elkjær Larsen Preben Erico Arsenio Eusébio Facchetti Giacinto Falcão Paulo Roberto Ferreyra Bernabé Figo Luís Figueroa Elías Fillol Ubaldo Finney Tom Fontaine Just Förster Karlheinz Francescoli Enzo Friedenreich Arthur Gallacher Hughie Garrincha Gentile Claudio Gento Francisco Gérson Gilmar Giresse Alain Greaves Jimmy Gren Gunnar Grosics Gyula Gullit Ruud Hagi Gheorghe Haller Helmut Hamrin Kurt Hanappi Gerhard Hansen Alan Hapgood Eddie Happel Ernst Hidegkuti Nándor Hiden Rudolf Hierro Fernando Jairzinho James Alex Janes Paul Jennings Pat Johnstone Jimmy Jonquet Robert Joya Juan Julinho Júnior Jurion Armand Kahn Oliver Keane Roy Keegan Kevin Kempes Mario Klinsmann Jürgen Kocsis Sándor Koeman Ronald Kohler Jürgen Konrád Kálmán Kopa Raymond Krol Ruud Kubala László Labruna Ángel Lato Grzegorz Laudrup Michael Law Denis Lawton Tommy Leônidas da Silva Liedholm Nils Lineker Gary Loustau Félix Lubański Włodzimierz Luís Pereira Luis Suárez Miramontes Mackay Dave Maier Sepp Maldini Paolo Maradona Diego Marzolini Silvio Masopust Josef Matthäus Lothar Matthews Stanley Mazurkiewicz Ladislao Mazzola Sandro Mazzola Valentino Meazza Giuseppe Monti Luis Moore Bobby Moreno José Manuel Morton Alan Müller Gerd Nasazzi José Nedvěd Pabel Neeskens Johan Nejedlý Oldřich Netto Igor Netzer Günher Nilton Santos Nordahl Gunnar Ocwirk Ernst Orsi Raimundo Overath Wolfgang Papin Jean-Pierre Passarella Daniel Pedernera Adolfo Pelé Pešek Karel Peyroteo Fernando Pfaff Jean-Marie Piola Silvio Plánička František Platini Michek Pontoni René Prohaska Herbert Puskás Ferenc Rahn Helmut Rattín Antonio Redondo Fernando Rensenbrink Rob Rijkaard Frank Riva Luigi Rivelino Roberto Rivera Gianni Robson Bryan Rocha Pedro Romario Ronaldo Rossi Néstor Rossi Paolo Ruggeri Oscar Rui Costa Rummenigge Karl-Heinz Rush Ian Sammer Matthias Sánchez Hugo Santamaria José Sárosi György Sastre Antonio Savićević Dejan Scarone Héctor Schäfer Hans Schiaffino Juan Alberto Schlosser Imre Schmeichel Peter Schnellinger Karl-Heinz Schuster Bernd Scirea Gaetano Seeler Uwe Šekularac Dragoslav Seoane Manuel Shesternyov Albert Shilton Peter Simonsen Allan Sindelar Matthias Sívori Omar Smith G. O. Sócrates Souness Graeme Spencer Alberto Stoichkov Hristo Stojković Dragan Streltsov Eduard Szepan Fritz Szymaniak Horst Tardelli Marco Thuram Lilian Tigana Jean Tostão Trésor Marius Van Basten Marco Van Hanegem Willem Van Himst Paul Varela Obdulio Vasović Velibor Vogts Berti Voronin Valery Vukas Bernard Walter Fritz Weah George Wilkes Faas Woodward Vivian Wright Billy Yashin Lev Zamora Ricardo Zarra Telmo Zico Zidane Zinedine Zizinho Zoff Dino
Well in taht case you can safely remove them from your list as many others more deserved i.e. SOCRATES,LAW BANK, Kinsman , Jair, Papin, Tresor ...as mentioned
Definitely not, they are both safe and not among bordeline candidates. Sometimes I wonder if you read the whole thread before posting as all players you mentioned expect Jair were already added.
Law is easily in. Now the rest: Suker and B. Laudrup: Off the top of my head there are many Strikers not in the Top 250 who are in the same tier (some are a bit better): Morlock, Braine, Asparuhov, McGrory, Zsengeller, Butragueno or Shearer and Vieri to name two of their contemporaries. Hoddle & Littbarski: Are on my borderline shortlist and worth a look. Jorginho: No chance. There are several RB better than him who are not even in the Top 250 like Kaltz, Rosetta, Suurbier, Gerets or Amoros.
Fair enough Schwuppe. Yes, Amoros in particular must be quite close to the 250. I'm not familiar with Rosetta but the other 4 were top right-backs certainly. Brian Laudrup wasn't necessarily a striker though he did play up front a lot for Denmark I think and I believe as a forward for Bayern Munich (he won the German striker of the year award, but not by scoring loads of goals). At Rangers I think he sometimes played as a striker or a free attacking midfielder, but often I think he was nominally the right winger but would run and dribble all over the pitch. He had some similarities to his brother without quite being the expert passer Michael was, but he was a bit quicker. It's your list so I won't object if you don't include him (you're right too that the likes of Butragueno and Shearer could be rated ahead by some people). I just wanted to let you get the full idea about him, though you were maybe already fairly familiar. I guess you watched the video, but just to add one with him playing for sides other than Rangers here's another one: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zybBXABmHd4"]YouTube - Brian Laudrup Skills & Goals[/ame] As for Littbarski, you're maybe very familiar with him, living adjacent to Germany - there was a very good video that's been taken down that showed a couple of great goals for Cologne involving long dribbles but here is a general dribbling video for him (also more footage of him providing assists in the '82 WC is on Youtube): [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wfdvj2PC4mI"]YouTube - Pierre LITTBARSKI dribbling compilation - christinayan[/ame] I noticed you have Hassler in the list - it's probably a close call between him and Littbarski - maybe Gregoriak would have an opinion on who was better. I think Littbarski was quicker and a better scorer from open play (he was a very good forward initially) while Hassler's long passing and free-kicks were better. As Hoddle was the other one you might consider, here's a compilation for him too (mainly goals but actually he was mainly known for skills and passing): [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4a2pX6_rCfY"]YouTube - Glenn Hoddle[/ame]
Rosetta and the others Full Backs in the old Pyramid formation weren't comparable to Side Backs. Right & Left Full Backs, marked the opposing Central Trio (Insider Forwards & sometimes CF). In old 2-3-5, Inside Forwards used to be the more advanced forwards, since CF lead the line, in a mix role. At least, until Offside Rule changed. So, Rosetta, Quincoces, Nasazzi, etc., are more comparable to Centerbacks than Lateral Defenders.
Yes, makes more sense that they are called full-backs when you understand the origin of the position. I may have come across Rosetta's name before but he's not one that I know anything about - I wouldn't know without checking whether he was Uruguayan/Swiss/Spanish for example. I haven't double-checked comme's top 100 lists for his name - I'll do that now and also check whether he was among those listed on a Dutch publications list of 20 for each role in their 4-3-3 formation shown by the RSSSF on their website (I'd guess not because there weren't many before 1950 though plenty from 50-80 from what I remember). EDIT Not on the Dutch list (Voetbal International) of 1-20 for each position - here's a link (bottom of the page) http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/best-x-players-of-y.html#vi-xi And he's on comme's lists and is Italian!
In that list Cruyff is supposed DM? I based on correct reading of the "Inverting the Pyramid", also A-T list publicated 30 or 40 years ago, when people was closer to Pyramid players (they actually saw them live) than nowadays rankings. To not deviate the thread, can continue here. https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1269077&page=6