Over the last few weeks there have been some 'black and white' myths that have totally been debunked with our run to the Confederations Cup Final. Below are such Myths ... MYTH: The entire infrastructure of soccer in the US needs to be fixed before we can compete for a championship. Truth: The National Team is a pool of 40 to 50 players -- we need to coach and manage that pool of players well to compete. When we finally started emphasizing some proper concepts -- PLUS the heart and fight of the players -- we stepped up significantly. The infrastructure of soccer in the US did not change in the last week. MYTH: The quality of US players is not high enough to compete for a championship. Truth: We have a deeper pool of quality players that can compete at the top level. We reached the final of the tournament with the SAME group of players -- in the same tournament that we started so badly. We have elite players like Donovan; some others are not far behind. The PLAYERS are NOT the problem. MYTH: Coaching does not have that much of an impact with a team. Truth: Coaching indeed DOES have a major impact on a team -- both for the things that you don't do as well as the things that you do (well or poorly.) At the beginning of the tournament, even our fundamentals were bad. Once we started improving our shape, spacing, composure, and patience -- as you could CLEARLY see in the last two games, the team -- not surprisingly -- took a HUGE step up in quality. Why it took so long for the coaching staff to finally realize and correct those deficiencies is beyond me ...
I'm not a huge Bradkley fan or anything, but taking the conclusion from a tournament where we were expected to be bounced early but instead ended up almost stealing the final from a great team like Brazil, despite being far from one of the most talented teams in the tournament that we need to fire our coach is kinda funny.
Bob Bradley: Highest placing in a FIFA tournament that the U.S. has EVER achieved. The coach you like: Jack sh!t.
It's not about hating Bob. It's about OBJECTIVELY analyzing the situation. The infrastructure and quality of the players myths no longer hold water. The myth that a coach can't impact a team is false. You take those factors out and what is left is coaching and coaching decisions that heavily influence the game. Don't get me wrong ... finally (after two poor games) there were some good decisions that turned the ship around. Unfortunately, there were also some decisions that sunk the ship in the end. Just because you don't like the message doesn't mean it's wrong.
The infrastructure is still weaker than in most of the big European countries. A coach can have an impact but it is wildly overstated by some fans. The team got to the final of a significant FIFA tournament and nearly beat the best team in the world after already beating the No.1 ranked team in the world. There is nothing objective about your comments. You have an ox to gore. Every coach is questioned for every decision that doesn't work. Had we managed to pull off the win yesterday legions of Brazilians would have had their pitchforks out demanding Dunga's head. As has been said countless times here, coaches are judged by their results not by their tactical decisions.
Objectively analyzing the situation shows that with one of the less talented teams in the tournament we ended up in the final and almost pulled the upset. How that objectively translates to fire to coach I have no idea.
We were not one of the 'less talented teams' -- you don't give the players enough credit. And just so none of you 'sensitive' fans have a meltdown, I've modified my original post to omit any direct references to the new 'annointed one'.
Look at the rosters of Brazil, Spain, Italy. Getting past a much more talented team like Spain and taking Brazil to the wire in the final was an accomplishment. Player wise, we were more in line with a team like Egypt whom we hammered. All you have to look at are the rosters and scan what teams the other guys play for as opposed to where our guys play to see the difference. (yes, Donovan is an exception) I know some people like to argue where these guys play doesn't amtter, but that argument basically says BigSoccer posters are better talent scouts than the heads of the best soccer clubs in the world, an argument I prefer not to side with.
So, if I understand your line of reasoning correctly... 1. The US soccer infrastucture is fine. Amateur youth clubs disconnected from real pro teams works great. Bradenton is swell. 2. The US is now among the elite nations based on player talent and we should expect the team to at least make the WC semi-finals next year. 3. Coaching matters a lot and Bob Bradley coached a great tournament.
just when I was convinced there were no rational soccer minds in the US you go and post this...good post, I agree 100%...coach Bradley did an excellent job with the talent at his disposal...
Well, that's ONE HECK of a glaring exception, and the parentheses can't hide it. I've said before that the market for soccer players is highly inefficient, and Donovan is one of many highly talented players from less-established soccer nations that proves it. Why wouldn't that same trend carry over to other U.S. players, that may be similarly undervalued? Soccer, like everything else, is HUGELY influenced by politics, prejudices, and personal connections. At the end of the day, it's 11 pro soccer players against 11 pro soccer players, and the game is decided by an inspired moment. What we need is to produce more of those moments...these guys proved they can do it.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Bob Bradley could win the World Cup next year and some people will not give him a lick of credit. These people are stunningly ignorant and the fact that he doesn't get any credit for taking this team to the finals speaks volumes of these posters' opinion.
Another myth - us on big soccer have no influence on the team. After so many emailed and left voicemails for Sunil, our players responded. I read somewhere that they were surprised about how many people back here cared about how they played. It seems to me that the backlash of fans motivated them to play with the passion that I haven't seen in a long time. I saw it when the US beat Brazil as a 7 year old. I knew very little about pro soccer and asked my Grandpa why the clock counted up... he said he thought the game would end when it hit 100. Anyway I saw so much determination and passion from the US players that it showed me that's how soccer is meant to be played, and it got us to the final in this tournament. But I still think Bradley needs to go.
The only theory debunked was that Donovan wasn't a world class player. Watching this tournament you have to sit back and think... damn, we don't have anyone as good as Donovan on the team now and what are we going to do in 5 years when we need a replacement?
I don't think the other poster was playing the "poor America" card. He made some good points about not necessarily judging players simply by the teams the play for or the amounts of money their transfers cost. The US players are better than the "what club do they play for?" argument would make them seem. Heck, the argument fails for most players and national teams. Take the Confed Cup winning Brazil. Yeah, they have their share of players at Inter, Bayern and Real Madrid, but they also have starters at Man City (yes, I know they aspire to be a Big Boy, but they ain't there yet- ask Kaka), Fiorentina, Sevilla, Panathinaikos and a host of native Brazilian clubs. Are these players not top flight because they aren't at Inter or Man United? So, yes, we lack some of those super stars, but I don't think they are heads above other players. There just is a huge gap in wealth between the biggest clubs and the others and it manifests itself in crazy buying binges that color our perceptions of the talent level of some players. And someone's earlier reference to Egypt is a pretty good comparison. They, like Mexico and the US (to a lesser extent) keep a lot of their talent at home in the domestic leagues (Egypt and Mexico through high wages, US through cultural means, mostly, and draconian contracts- Donovan, Twellman, Cooper). So the soccer market is not entirely a free market. It is difficult to compare players' talents based on which clubs own them. My own opinion is that the US players were right in the middle of the talent pool in this tournament. I think our top players (Donovan, Mikey, Howard, Dempsey) would have made the rosters of most of the other teams and possibly started. I also think some of the other teams starters would not be automatic starters for the US. Spain and Brazil being the exceptions. But they would be the exceptions in almost any group of national teams.
He certainly seems to get a lot of flack around here. He did a lot better job than Del Bosque in this tournament.
enough said. Whine all you want about what another guy COULD do, Bradley DID DO IT. Give the guy at least a little respect already
IMO you are not being objective. And I hope no one takes your "truths" as "facts" becuase they are not. They are somewhere between fact and your own opinion...which, of course, you are entitled to. As long as you conceed that it isn't necessarily right.
Therein lies the problem. You see, not ONE of our outfield players would make it onto the subs bench of even a decent team. Tim Howard is a great keeper, Dempsey belongs in Division 2 (or worse still, MLS) and the rest, aside from maybe Donovan wouldn't have a chance. Hence why your poster boy is barely getting time in the reserves for what many believe is the weakest Benfica side for a generation? Was loaned to Monaco (again, possibly their lowest point for many years) was shipped off back to Portugal with a "no thanks" note attached. So, that's three different managers who don't rate him. Bob, The Portuguese, and The French. Of course, you know better than they do, right? Same goes for Torres, oh wait, Pachuca...
Depends on the championship you're talking about. I'd say it DOES need to be fixed to win the World Cup. And we didn't win the Confed Cup so maybe it needs to be fixed to win that one too...and the Copa...if we're ever invited back... I think we're okay when it comes to the Gold Cup though. Again...depends on the championship you're talking about... I think we're okay when it comes to the Gold Cup though. Correct. That is a myth. However, I think coaches often get too much praise for wins and too much criticism for losses. But yes, they are certainly a factor in regards to the team's performance.
Agreed, but that's a bit pessimistic. Landon should be around this WC and even next (barring injury). So that's 9 years we have in drumming up another world-class attacker or two.
Wait, are you seriously trying to contend that the US made it to the final because of the fans on Big Soccer? Nah, you can't be serious. This is a joke, right? Please tell me it's a joke.