Biggest Pop Culture Death (rankings)

Discussion in 'Movies, TV and Music' started by Ringo, Jun 27, 2009.

  1. Ringo

    Ringo Member

    Jun 10, 2002
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    A friend and I were arguing after Michael Jackson died -- who's death had a bigger impact on modern culture/society? I said it was clearly Princess Diana over Michael.
    We both agreed JFK was probably No. 1.
    But where would you rank the likes of JFK, Michael, Elvis, John Lennon, Michael, Princess Di? It's been the matter of some debate around the office ....

    Personally, here's mine

    1. JFK
    2. Lennon
    3. Princess Di
    4. Elvis
    5. Michael Jackson

    Is there anybody else that can crack that top five? I rearranged them several times and would probably do so again if I didn't hit 'post' five seconds after typing this sentence.
     
  2. Ismitje

    Ismitje Super Moderator

    Dec 30, 2000
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    Not sure how Michael Jackson rates over John Lennon if you're looking international. Heck, domestically you'd need to think hard about Buddy Holly (with Ritchie Valens and The Big Bopper), James Dean, Kurt Cobain, Selena, Tupac, Marilyn Monroe, Sam Cooke, Jim Croce, and Marvin Gaye (just off the op of my head) mught pip MJ for the fifth spot. The suddenness should be balanced with youth and productivity at the time of their deaths.

    Lennon, Cooke, Tupac, and Gaye were murdered, making their deaths all the more shocking. Monroe and Cobain were suicides, same thing.
     
  3. Real Ray

    Real Ray Member

    May 1, 2000
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    That's a tough list to crack.

    Off the top of my head, the one has a chance to be in the argument would be Rock Hudson. For younger posters, you may not appreciate the impact of his dying of AIDS had. I would make the case that while his place in the culture (his celebrity, if you will) lacked power of Princess Diana, his death resonated deeper in the culture and society at large.
     
  4. soccermilitant

    soccermilitant Member+

    Jan 14, 2009
    St.paul
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    The death of billy mayes
     
  5. DoctorJones24

    DoctorJones24 Member

    Aug 26, 1999
    OH
    Hm, I think I'd bump Elvis up to 1b next to JFK.
     
  6. royalstilton

    royalstilton Member

    Aug 2, 2004
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    If Diana Spencer hadn't been married to that stork, she wouldn't have made much of a dent in the scheme of things. Certainly she used her access to the press to promote plenty of good. Her charm and personal attractiveness were her principal tools. But you have to acknowledge that it was only her position as part of the Royal Family that created that opportunity. And the fact that she was sorely treated by the stork, to the point of near mythic proportions, plus, like JFK, she had those two cute kids, all of these factors elevated her to nominal sainthood in the court of public opinion.
     
  7. Ringo

    Ringo Member

    Jun 10, 2002
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    and if JFK had never been elected, John never met Paul, Elvis never got a recording contract and Michael decided a showbiz family wasn't for him none of them would've made a dent either.
    what's your point? I mean, you're saying 'if she wasn't famous, nobody would know her.' you know, that's true of everybody. just saying
     
  8. frasermc

    frasermc Take your flunky and dangle

    Celtic
    Scotland
    Jul 28, 2006
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    Isn't the point more John Lennon had talent in spades, Elvis Pressley had talent in spades, Michael Jackson had talent in spades.

    Diana Spencer...?
     
  9. Felixx219

    Felixx219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 8, 2004
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    The only real problem I have with it is Princess Diana even being mentioned. She was someone that held a meaningless title and I still dont understand why her death was a big deal. I mean it is sad that anyone dies at a young age but I wouldnt consider her part of pop culture or her death any different than the average person being killed in a car crash.
     
  10. That Phat Hat

    That Phat Hat Member+

    Nov 14, 2002
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    But, her death was a big deal to a lot of people, and the news of her death occupied plenty of peoples' emotional bandwidths. Her philanthropic work, combined with her frequent tabloid appearances made her very much a pop culture figure.

    And I'm honestly saddened that you don't remember/recognize how she used her title to speak out on behalf of the less fortunate. You may not think it's a big deal, but merely shaking hands with a man who was dying from AIDS was absolutely shocking at the time. That single act changed how people looked at the disease and its victims, when she could have easily spent her life in the comforts of palace grounds.
     
  11. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
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    --other--
    If JFK counts, wouldn't Martin Luther King be up there as well?
     
  12. riverplate

    riverplate Member+

    Jan 1, 2003
    Corona, Queens
    Club:
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    This sentence is why she belongs on the list.

    It was unbelieveable how upset people all over the world were after her death. Nobody would have believed she would have been mourned to such an extent. It was really incredible how she apparently impressed and touched people without them even realizing it until she tragically died.

    As far as Michael Jackson is concerned, I really think the reaction to his death hasn't been that big. I believe the press is trying to make it big, but I really don't see any actual grief. The guy was a spent force, hadn't produced anything new or exciting for years and years, and he destroyed his own image to such an extent that I feel people had become emotionally detached from him completely.
     
  13. That Phat Hat

    That Phat Hat Member+

    Nov 14, 2002
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    It wouldn't be so polite to guess your age, but if I had to, I'm thinking you and I are probably a generation or two apart. Because seriously, the day after it happened, it was all my friends and I could talk about (or more accurately, it was all that appeared in our Facebook status updates). We grew up in a world where Michael Jackson was the biggest thing around, and there hasn't been a global pop icon of his, or any, magnitude since.

    But you might be right - it's probably less grief than nostalgia. We were sad, but more sad in the way might let go of an old car that has seen better days, than something being ripped away from us.

    Because he's been good as dead since the early 90s to most of us other than occasional gawks through tabloids, and given his health issues, his death wasn't all that shocking, if not totally expected either.

    And to support your point, most of our conversations were about his music, how old we were when we heard xxx, etc, and less about the death. It wasn't so much mourning as it was revisiting our own childhoods through the common thread of Michael Jackson.

    BTW, this is probably the best thing I've read about Michael Jackson's death so far:
    [​IMG]
    http://achewood.com/index.php?date=06282009
     
  14. Felixx219

    Felixx219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 8, 2004
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    Hasnt been that big? He has been top page news for more than a week. I have had several conversations with people about it everyday since it has happened. I have heard multiple songs of his playing on the radio and TV. The day it happened, my phone blew up with people.

    I have a six year old daughter who is obsessed with Hannah Montana. So, when she asked who MJ was, I replied, "he was my Hannah Montana."

    I grew up on MJ. I got every tape or record the day it came out. I still have Thriller and Bad on vinyl. I had posters, the jacket, and all types of apparel. He was bigger than anything I have seen in my lifetime. Probably the biggest thing since the Beatles and I dont think anything has matched it since.
     
  15. rabble-rabble

    rabble-rabble Member

    Jul 26, 2004
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    You could of course add people like Jim Morrison, Janis Joplin, Jimmy Hendrix, and Freddie Mercury to the list. All of them great musicians who died in the prime years of their careers.
     
  16. Felixx219

    Felixx219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 8, 2004
    Kansas City, MO
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    Maybe it was my age (I believe I was 17 when she died) but I never saw it as that big of a deal. Again, I am not saying it is not sad she died but she had no impact on my life and other than seeing her on tabloid covers at the grocery store, I had never really heard of her or anything she did.
     
  17. That Phat Hat

    That Phat Hat Member+

    Nov 14, 2002
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    But I don't think they're global icons in the sense that people in multiple continents would remember where they were when they heard of the death (granted, the thread starter's list is pretty US-centric).

    Will Leitch had something in a similar vein on Deadspin, where he listed future deaths that would affect people the way Jackson's death did, and lays out his criteria: http://deadspin.com/5303475/which-sports-death-would-affect-us-like-mjs
    Musicians from the 1980s are at an advantage, of course, because of the advent of music videos, as well as media saturation. Though I'm thinking Paul McCartney or Mick Jagger dying would be as big a deal as Jackson's death, simply because of the baby boomer grip on mainstream media.
     
  18. Ismitje

    Ismitje Super Moderator

    Dec 30, 2000
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    She was also the most visible supporter of the International Campaign to Ban Landmines. It was politically unpopular in Britain, and when she went to Angola in 1997 it was a very big deal - this ITN report highlights it (there are significantly longer clips on Youtube. Her involvements with AIDS and the landmine issue were not traditional "celebrity" dalliances, either.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YseI_CWlCcg"]YouTube - Lady Diana anti landmine trip Angola ITN 1997[/ame]

    This issue mattered to people all over the world, and tied her to them in ways that made her death all the more impactful.

    And can I just say how odd it is to be having this discussion? I never imagined myself advocating for Lady Di! :eek:
     
  19. That Phat Hat

    That Phat Hat Member+

    Nov 14, 2002
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    I'm a little surprised, since I don't think you're that much younger than me (by 3, 4 years?), but if you were born in the 80s, I guess you could have easily missed the early to mid-80s, when she captured people's affection.

    But trust me on this - she was a really, really big deal. Her wedding was a global television event (and I imagine the royal family made it a big deal, since Britain's national self esteem was in the dumps at the time), and she won a lot of respect by being decidedly un-royal about her causes (notably AIDS and leprosy).
     
  20. royalstilton

    royalstilton Member

    Aug 2, 2004
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    JFK was timely. He had a message that resonated. He had immense personal charisma. But he was a Senator from a relatively populous state before he became President. He came from a Brahmin family. He had some juice before he was elected.

    John Lennon was probably a bigger cultural phenomenon because of his relationship with Paul, but I have little doubt that he would have risen to the top of the pop field independently.

    Elvis was the product of exceptional management and great personal attractiveness, plus real singing talent. He got a contract because of that talent, but he became a cultural icon because he exuded sexual energy at a time when sexuality had been somewhat repressed.

    As was stated, these three brought to the table a set of credentials that elevated their place in their culture far above the norm for media celebrities. Diana Spencer was a kindergarten teacher who was never going to be any kind of media darling except she married the Prince of Wales. If she had married the Duke of Essex, or Baron Von Slossendorf, her face wouldn't be on a stamp in 67 countries.

    just sayin'
     
  21. That Phat Hat

    That Phat Hat Member+

    Nov 14, 2002
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    Of course you are.
     
  22. Ringo

    Ringo Member

    Jun 10, 2002
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    OK, but that's the point ... you keep saying 'IF' Diana did this. but the fact is, SHE did marry the future King of England and she DID become globally famous. you dismiss other people's 'IF's' but cling to the one with Diana. Yes, she wasn't musically talented. But the fact is that she was a global icon, beloved around the world. That's a fact. Your 'ifs' are irrelevant.

    Just sayin.
    ;)
     
  23. Ringo

    Ringo Member

    Jun 10, 2002
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    no.
    that's not to say it's insignificant, but everybody remembers where they were when JFK was shot. Do they remember with MLK?
     
  24. j_m_t

    j_m_t Member

    Aug 27, 2005
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    do i remember where i was when Gandhi was killed? i would if i was alive at the time. and i'm sure people who were alive at the time MLK was killed they would too.

    by the way i think Gandhi would be above JFK and MLK...but probably not Stalin, no even above Stalin
     
  25. That Phat Hat

    That Phat Hat Member+

    Nov 14, 2002
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    I think the people who rioted after MLK's death know exactly where they were when they heard the news.

    I think, with JFK, he was as much an object of cultural curiosity as he was a politician. I don't think people are making movies about, say, MLK and Marilyn Monroe, or fetishizing over his children's sex life.
     

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