Big Soccer members World Best Player of the Year 1950-2009

Discussion in 'Players & Legends' started by couper99, Apr 9, 2010.

  1. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Except that Gullit is rated very high by Gazzetto dello Sport, if anything an even more reputable publication than Guerin Sportivo. Schillaci, as far as I know, did not get high grades by anyone (edit: see now he's placed high in DBScalcio).

    Ultimately this is a subjective thing. Things are not getting easier when it later came out and it was proven Moggi was meddling in the ratings.

    Schillaci was thunderous in the World Cup, but compared to other top strikers not as outstanding in the league or going far (and being decisive) in Europe. I'm not claiming with certainty MvB was better, but he had at least a truly stellar game in the (then important) Intercontinental Cup that year (well, PDG and others thought that was the case). Despite two assists he was bad in the World Cup though.
  2. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    #1702 Vegan10, Aug 31, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2018
    Point taken.

    In regards to Gullit and Gazzetta, we know that’s a Milano newspaper, some inclination to being less impartial may have been involved. Furthermore, GS has Gullit ranked at the top in the “Hit Parade”, the weekly top 10 performer that season, because final ratings don’t truly value the importance in significant games where a player must raise his game. I believe the “Hit Parade” does justice to those players that may not have the most steady grades in a 30 plus game season but turn it on in better fashion in significant games than the average player that just accumulated steady grades.

    1990 was a very difficult and battled-tested year. Lots of competition.

    Hmmm, MvB is ranked in the top 5 in the league in the GS “Hit Parade” in importance and influence but not in the top 10 in Europe. I think the underperforming WC rules him out of contention.

    Rijkaard: one of the top 5 best ranked by GS in Europe in the “Hit Parade” but nothing to write home about in the league or at the WC.

    Maradona: top man in the GS “Hit Parade” at league level, second best rated in his position by GS, and bronze ball winner at the WC, but not part of the top 10 for GS at that tournament (Italian publications seemed to all reach an agreement by banishing him from any list after Argentina knocked Italy out of the tournament with his controversial statements). Ranked number 1 by El Mundo South American player of the year (unofficial).

    Brehme: not mentioned in the top 10 for GS at league level but at the WC is rated 2nd in the GS “Hit Parade”. Ranked 3rd in the Ballon d’Or.

    Baresi: GS best rated but not in the top 5 ranked in the final “Hit Parade” for the entire season. Also not mentioned amongst the top 10 in Europe in the GS “Hit Parade” and did not make the top 5 for the FIFA golden ball. Ranked 5th in the Ballon d’Or.

    Matthaus: WC silver Ball and rated best in his position by GS at league level but not in the top 5 in the GS “Hit Parade” for the entire season. Ranked number 4 at the WC by GS and number 1 in the Ballon d’Or.

    Schillaci: not rated in the top two in his position for GS in the league but is considered the second best player in a final ranking of the top performers in importance by GS in the “Hit Parade”. Ranked number 1 at the WC in FIFA golden ball and #1 in GS “Hit Parade”. Ranked number 2 in the Ballon d’Or.

    Edit: Schillaci also was better rated by GS in the final showdown to Juventus’ win vs AC Milan in the Coppa Italia over his opponents.

    I think out of all these names Schillaci is getting the “short end to the stick”.
    peterhrt and Once repped this.
  3. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    That might be true but it is more than compensated by the parochial and market tendencies that favor the other players, not the least 'our family' Schilacci. Hey, it is Italy!

    Furthermore, Gazzetta dello Sport wasn't particularly generous towards Milan players when they won the league in 1994, 1999, 2004 and 2011. Gullit did not leave Milan on good terms in 1993, and yet he got a very high grade and the top grade at Sampdoria. In 1992 Guerin Sportivo had a Milan player on top, while Gazzetta did not have them as one of the two at top (remember: Milan was unbeaten all season). In fact: Gazzetta rated only one Milan creative player really high.

    Finally, we just know for a fact that Maradona, Careca, Moggi and his clan threatened journalists, destroyed cars of journalists to get higher grades.

    You forget to mention the Intercontinental Cup performance and in Europe he had the winning assist in the final against Benfica (1-0, also created other chances), goal and assist against Real Madrid (2-1 aggregate win), winning goal against Mechelen (2-0 a.e.t.), an occasionally threatening performance and goal against Bayern Munich (2-2 aggregate, a.e.t.). How that is not important or influential is beyond me.

    There might have been better ones in Europe but sure as hell it is better as Schillaci, Klinsmann or Careca - in Europe for that season.

    Or he was just not playing that well, despite two assists and occasional sparks.

    Castrol Index/OPTA had him outside the top 50. For someone with his playing style and with his explosive role that is telling a bit.

    I see that idea better now, yes.
  4. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    The general consensus is by the way Gazzetta has maybe a soft bias towards Milan, but it is not as glaring towards certain teams as practically almost other sports papers.


    I don't make that up.

    + what I say above about 'biases' favoring other players, in particularly Italians and culturally similar players like Platini (Italian grandparents).
  5. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011

    They didn’t make the top 10 either.

    I just think the importance of him shouldn’t be overlooked. I also question how (like you with Euro 88 Gullit) the GS “Hit Parade” top 10 didn’t include him but does include Caniggia or Giannini. It is clearly obvious in my view that the weight of navigating the Argentinian crippled ship towards the finals was on Maradona's shoulders and not on Caniggia’s. Furthermore, Goycoechea is also omitted, which is absurd. The Argentinian blonde forward was fresh and swift in his runs but without Maradona’s services and influence, he would never touch the ball.

    In any event, Maradona during and after the WC was a hated man in most of Italy so it doesn’t really surprise me that he wasn’t getting any recognition anymore and his days in Italy were numbered.
    Once repped this.
  6. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Did any center forward then? Take MvB out and it is highly likely that Milan does not win the European Cup, or all those close ties.

    That's all highly mythologized and exaggerated stuff.

    Caniggia was the guy taking on people, stretching opponents and causing danger. Was any other goalkeeper in the top 10 then?

    People - the born liars - should not cry foul when they perennially take shortcuts and it backfires later (all-time record holder in handballs at World Cup level, not counting the crucial ones against USSR and England). Even if you are half-Italian, receive 9 by Gazzetta for your Italian language mastery, and universally adored.

    Okay, I stop with this discussion. No surprise usual suspect Once buys all of this. Apparently I am in a minority and I know I will not learn anything new from this, nor will positions be moved.
  7. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    Romario is in the top 10 as centre-forwards.

    So was Maradona, that’s why he was drawing the most fouls out of every player in the competition. Furthermore, battles are won/lost in the midfield, where the rock primarily circulated around Argentina’s captain.

    Caniggia doesn’t touch the ball without the creative interventions from Maradona, Burruchaga or Olarticoechea.

    Look, I viewed that WC live on TV (unlike many here) and I know that despite Maradona not performing to a great level, I’m quite certain that his influence, presence, how the opposition diagrammed ways to stop him, all facilitated Caniggia or any other player to have more space to maneuver.

    You have to ask yourself: who was the most important player for Argentina ? Who demanded more attention ? How did teams prepare to face them ? How did he respond in commanding his position on the field as midfield general ? Would they have reached the knockout stage without him ? If Caniggia was the key target man upfront, Maradona was the crucial link from the midfield. For GS to place one in their top 10 over the other is absurd in my view.

    No, and if anyone deserved it it was Sergio Goycoechea.

    You are an individual that has very little sympathy when it comes to speaking good things about Diego Maradona. You and I won’t ever agree on many things surrounding this player but I still respect that you have differences; however it is difficult to discuss with you about him because of your strong tendency to judge him negatively.

    In any event, I generally appreciate your contributions to the majority of subjects on this board and I’ve learned from it, which has enriched my knowledge of specifics that I may not have known.
    Once repped this.
  8. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    #1708 PuckVanHeel, Sep 1, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2018
    Which confirms to me my earlier impressions.

    Romario played only two games, that's all.

    Granted, he scored 2 goals in 2 games against Real Madrid, but Van Basten had a goal and an assist as well against Real Madrid in a 2-1 aggregate win. Add then, logically, the other five matches and said direct influence (the winning assist and all the other things) and it shouldn't be close from a rational point of view.

    So which biases and inclinations are then really at play here. It's 'obvious' Brazilians have, as usual, an advantage.

    I rated him as the undoubted best player of the 1980 - 1990 era (despite voicing doubts on the years 1979 and 1983; his influence and delivery, against the top).

    At the same time, some things are just grossly exaggerated and can't be backed up by any facts. Only by mythology and emotion. For example: Napoli as a poor and small team; the player influence on the results (over a longer period of time); the perceived success and consistency in Europe. That has no real backing, same for the idea he created a lot in 1990, or passed and retained the ball well. If you believe he was navigating the ship in great fashion when he once again got away with volleyballing (if anything, the golden goose was protected), or when he missed his penalty against Yugoslavia, when Brazil hit the post a number of times - yes, then we have indeed big differences. My problem is all that stupid and false mythology for which, unlike other legendary players, exists no real backing. That is really the essence of it (I can list this more systematically).

    Thanks for the compliment, but yes we see this different.
  9. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    1990 produces divided opinions of him; for some he played way below his capacity, for others he dealt well with what he could under those circumstances. But he was not in good physical shape, that’s for sure.

    Many have stated that Matthaus was the best player at Italia ‘90 (or the best number 10). He was a resourceful two-way player but with the exception of the Yugoslavia game, was he really better than Maradona or Stojkovic overall ?
  10. peterhrt

    peterhrt Member

    Oct 21, 2015
    Leeds United AFC
    As we reach the twenty-first century, players are fresher in the memory and opinions on the forum more polarised. Most leading footballers attract strong views for and against. There are more instances now of posters pushing players from their own club/country and criticising those from rival teams. Statistics and video clips abound but they don't settle many arguments.

    The boards see plenty of good debate on the relative merits of players. Although it is not always easy to find a consensus among posters for each year, it's still just about possible.

    2000: 1. Figo, 2. Zidane, 3. Rivaldo, 4. Shevchenko, 5. Nesta.
    2001: 1. Figo, 2. Raul, 3. Owen, 4. Kahn, 5. Zidane.
    2002: 1. Ronaldo, 2. Zidane, 3. Roberto Carlos, 4. Kahn, 5. Ballack.
    2003: 1. Nedved, 2. Henry, 3. Zidane, 4. van Nistelrooy, 5. Maldini.
    2004: 1. Ronaldinho, 2. Henry, 3. Shevchenko, 4. Deco, 5. Nedved.
    2005: 1. Ronaldinho, 2. Lampard, 3. Gerrard, 4. Shevchenko, 5. Adriano.
    2006: 1. Ronaldinho, 2. Henry, 3. Cannavaro, 4. Buffon, 5. Eto'o.
    2007: 1. Kaka, 2. C Ronaldo, 3. Messi, 4. Drogba, 5. Pirlo.
    2008: 1. C Ronaldo, 2. Messi, 3. Torres, 4. Xavi, 5. Casillas.
    2009: 1. Messi, 2. Xavi, 3. C Ronaldo, 4. Iniesta, 5. Kaka.
  11. peterhrt

    peterhrt Member

    Oct 21, 2015
    Leeds United AFC

    2010: 1. Messi, 2. Sneijder, 3. Xavi, 4. Iniesta, 5. Robben.
    2011: 1. Messi, 2. C Ronaldo, 3. Xavi, 4. Iniesta, 5. Neymar.
    2012: 1. Messi, 2. C Ronaldo, 3. Iniesta, 4. Pirlo, 5. van Persie.
    2013: 1. Ribery, 2. C Ronaldo, 3. Messi, 4. Ibrahimovic, 5. Schweinsteiger.
    2014: 1. C Ronaldo, 2. Robben, 3.Messi, 4. Neuer, 5. T Muller.
    2015: 1. Messi, 2. C Ronaldo, 3. Neymar, 4. Suarez, 5. Lewandowski.
    2016: 1. C Ronaldo, 2. Messi, 3. Griezmann, 4. Suarez, 5. Bale.
    2017: 1. Messi, 2. C Ronaldo, 3. Neymar, 4. Modric, 5. Kante.
  12. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Nice to see Kaka, Xavi, Sneijder, Ribery and Robben broken the Messi/CR7 hegemony in the last 10 years :thumbsup:
  13. Tropeiro

    Tropeiro Member

    Jun 1, 2018
    2008 Cristiano Ronaldo
    2009 Lionel Messi
    2010 Sneijder
    2011 Lionel Messi
    2012 Cristiano Ronaldo
    2013 Cristiano Ronaldo
    2015 Lionel Messi
  14. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Nov 20, 2014
    Arsenal FC
    I don't think Ronaldo can be the best in 2002 when he won eff-all at club level after missing a year's worth of football, and was out-performed by Rivaldo at the World Cup?

    Was Ronaldinho actually better than Henry in 2004, when the latter dominated his league by winning top-scorer by 8 goals and of course going unbeaten the entire season? Ronaldinho didn't do a thing in Europe either with his team getting knocked out of the UEFA Cup in the 4th round while Arsenal got knocked out in the quater-finals of the UCL. Internationally Henry also had the EURO to give extra points.

    How can CR7 come third in 2009 and Vidic, the guy who won all the same team achievements as CR7, but also voted the best player in his team (same team as CR7!) and the league, while CR7 won no individual award? This guy was a B-E-A-S-T
  15. peterhrt

    peterhrt Member

    Oct 21, 2015
    Leeds United AFC
    2002 has been discussed at some length.

    External lists:

    Ballon d'Or (UEFA journalists vote): Ronaldo (169 points), Roberto Carlos (145), Kahn (110), Zidane (78), Ballack (71), Henry (54), Raul (38), Rivaldo (31).

    FIFA World Player of the Year (Voted by NT coaches and captains, media reps invited by FIFA): Ronaldo (387 points), Kahn (171), Zidane (148), Roberto Carlos (114), Rivaldo (92), Raul (90), Ballack (82).

    World Soccer Player of the Year (Readers vote): Ronaldo.

    ESM Team of the Month Appearances 2002 Calendar Year (Max 9) [Club form. Players above only]: Ballack 5, Roberto Carlos 4, Zidane 4, Henry 1, Kahn 1, Raul 1, Ronaldo 1, Rivaldo 0.

    2002 World Cup Golden Ball (Media vote from Top 10 chosen by FIFA Technical Study Group): Kahn 25%, Ronaldo 21%, Bo Myung Hong 18%, Rivaldo 16%, Ronaldinho 9%. Also Roberto Carlos 2%, Ballack 1%. Henry, Raul, Zidane not nominated.

    Don Balon Spanish Player of the Season (Spanish magazine): 2001-02 – Spanish: Raul, Foreign: Zidane. 2002-03 – Spanish: Xabi Alonso, Foreign: Kahveci.

    Various discussions on the BigSoccer forum point to a two-horse race between Ronaldo and Zidane. The former's popularity in the main votes and successful World Cup versus the latter's club form. It is recognised that Ronaldo was not the player he had been. As usual, posters either think Zidane was brilliant or vastly overrated. On balance a narrow win for Ronaldo.
  16. peterhrt

    peterhrt Member

    Oct 21, 2015
    Leeds United AFC
    2004 external lists:

    Ballon d'Or: Shevchenko (175 points), Deco (139), Ronaldinho (133), Henry (80), Zagorakis (44), Adriano (27), Nedved (23). Also Zidane (3), Ronaldo (0).

    FIFA World Player of the Year: Ronaldinho (620 points), Henry (552), Shevchenko (253), Nedved (178), Zidane (150), Adriano (98), Deco (96), Ronaldo (96). Also Zagorakis (25).

    World Soccer Player of the Year: Ronaldinho.

    ESM Team of the Month Appearances 2004 Calendar Year (Max 9) [Club form: Players above only]: Ronaldinho 8, Henry 5, Shevchenko 4, Deco 3, Adriano 2, Ronaldo 2, Zidane 2, Nedved 1, Zagorakis 0.

    Eastern Europe Player of the Year (Radioropa, a German-language radio station): Shevchenko (76%), Zagorakis (8%), Nedved (7%).

    Euro 2004 Best Player (Chosen by UEFA Technical Team): Zagorakis. UEFA's Technical Team also picked a squad of 23 based on performance. Of the players named above, only Zagorakis was included. Deco, Henry, Nedved and Zidane were left out. The others did not take part in the tournament.

    Don Balon Foreign Player of the Spanish Season: Ronaldinho won in 2003-04 but not in 2004-05.

    Player of the English Season: Henry won both the Football Writers Association and Professional Footballers Association awards for 2003-04, but neither for 2004-05.

    In the four external lists where everyone is eligible, Ronaldinho leads three times and Shevchenko once.

    BigSoccer posters favoured Ronaldinho narrowly over Henry, with Shevchenko third. It is true that more BS posters support Barcelona than either Arsenal or AC Milan.
  17. peterhrt

    peterhrt Member

    Oct 21, 2015
    Leeds United AFC

    Ballon d'Or: C Ronaldo 2nd (233 points), Vidic 16th (8 points).

    FIFA World Player: C Ronaldo 2nd (352 points), Vidic not placed (0 points).

    ESM Team of the Month Appearances during 2009 Calendar Year: C Ronaldo 5, Vidic 3.

    Vidic was voted Manchester United's Player of the Year for the 2008-09 season, but the PFA award went to teammate Giggs.

    For the 2009-10 season, Rooney picked up the Man United award as well as both the PFA and FWA awards. Cristiano Ronaldo had transferred to Real Madrid by then.

    In discussions for 2009 BS posters have CR7 a distant third behind Messi and Xavi. Vidic is not seriously considered for the Top 5 but appears in PeruFC's Top 23.
    annoyedbyneedoflogin repped this.

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