Thanks, yes I think that is nice info that isn't easily available. The open play goals might be a bit easier to establish/estimate but good work counting those accurately too.
Following a trawl through various threads, incorporating the input of numerous posters, here is an initial attempt at a combined BigSoccer annual Top 5 list. First period is 1950-69. 1950: 1. Ademir, 2. Zizinho, 3. Puskas, 4. Schiaffino, 5. Nordahl. 1951: 1. Nordahl, 2. Liedholm, 3. Di Stefano, 4. Wilkes, 5. Ocwirk. 1952: 1. Puskas, 2. Kubala, 3. Kocsis, 4. Walter Gomez, 5. Praest. 1953: 1. Puskas, 2. Hidegkuti, 3. Kopa, 4. Bozsic, 5. Matthews. 1954: 1. Kocsis, 2. Schiaffino, 3. Walter, 4. Di Stefano, 5. Puskas. 1955: 1. Di Stefano, 2. Puskas, 3. Schiaffino, 4. Kopa, 5. Vukas. 1956: 1. Di Stefano, 2. Kopa, 3. Schiaffino, 4. Matthews, 5. Netto. 1957: 1. Di Stefano, 2. Didi, 3. Edwards, 4. Sivori, 5. Finney. 1958: 1. Didi, 2. Pele, 3. Kopa, 4. Fontaine, 5. Charles. 1959: 1. Pele, 2. Di Stefano, 3. Kopa, 4. Suarez, 5. Sanfillipo. 1960: 1. Puskas, 2. Yashin, 3. Suarez, 4. Sivori, 5. Seeler. 1961: 1. Pele, 2. Garrincha, 3. Sivori, 4. Spencer, 5. Suarez. 1962: 1. Garrincha, 2. Pele, 3. Masopust, 4. Eusebio, 5. Coluna. 1963: 1. Pele, 2. Rivera, 3. Greaves, 4. Yashin, 5. Ademir da Guia. 1964: 1. Suarez, 2. Pele, 3. Law, 4. Van Himst, 5. Voronin. 1965: 1. Pele, 2. Eusebio, 3. Rocha, 4. Facchetti, 5. Suarez. 1966: 1. Charlton, 2. Eusebio, 3. Moore, 4. Spencer, 5. Beckenbauer. 1967: 1. Albert, 2. Charlton, 3. Johnstone, 4. Rocha, 5. Best. 1968: 1. Best, 2. Dzajic, 3. Charlton, 4. Rivera, 5. Veron. 1969: 1. Rivera, 2. Tostao, 3. Riva, 4. Cruyff, 5. Pele.
Well done mate - nice work. Sorry that I didn't get round to it before you found yourself doing it, although I'm sure you're equally capable or moreso anyway, and equally interested or moreso too probably (and as you'll have seen I'm definitely interested myself). I've probably got a bit of a backlog of things I've agreed to at some point or another, and I'm still intending very soon to look into World Cup related stuff Puck showed me from France Football, which I put to one side while the actual World Cup was on. When you get into the 1980s it could be interesting to look at Vegan10's threads about Guerin Sportivo polls and recently posted ones with ratings from Serie A from Guerin Sportivo and other publications. It's hard for me to say for sure if they changed my own ideas for various years but in some cases they'd be making me lean more one way, or another, than previously assumed.
Imho, and I am personally pretty sure about that, Rivera was better in 1968 than in 1969. From a factual perspective, he certainly was more productive. Of course he was great when it mattered in 1969 (missed one leg of semis), but the BdO was as much a career award imho.
Yes. He was 9th in the 1968 Ballon d'Or, which was lower than he probably should have been. Having looked at the comprehensive La Liga ratings you posted, I thought about Gento again for 1959 and 1960. He seems to have been very strong during the first half of the 1959/60 season before fading, and did nothing special in the first part of 1959. So he probably misses out.
According the ratings: Gento's 1st semester of 1959 was poor in La Liga, but decent at EC and NT. Then, the 2nd semester was arguably the best of his career (at very high level in La Liga, EC and NT). The 1st semester of 1960 was very strong, the same with the 2nd semester. I think, satisfactory at 1960-I at EC and NT.
Gento appears as a Euro Team of the Month candidate between September and December 1959, but not between January and April 1960 nor in September or October that year. He then returns in November and December. In international club matches during 1959/60 he ranks fifth among Real Madrid players with an average rating of 1.67. For the NT he is second behind Eulogio.
Just to mention that Marca didn't had resumes as Player of the Month or Player of the Season. At least, I didn't see any. The monthly and season lists, were highlighted in my own estimations for the highest ratings based on weekly ratings provided by Marca.
What maybe cost Rivera was the start of the 1968-69 season when he lost his place for the national team. For 1967-68 I saw that he was voted and elevated to the best footballer of Italy. He's great throughout in the 1967-68 Cup Winners Cup matches. I struggle to see how a Pelé in his improved 1969 form (even if not the same player, his decision making remained lethal) or Cruijff was intrinsically weaker competition. Cruijff basically led Ajax to the final with 6 goals and a handful assists in 10 games (no penalties). This was before many of the other 'famous' players came, and when he was kicked out of the match after 10 minutes, Ajax lost the 2nd leg of the semi final with 2-0. That once again shows his personal influence (in line with his track record over a longer period of time). By that time he had certainly already built of a good/high density of individually strong performances against elite teams whenever he faced them (Liverpool, Real Madrid, Benfica, Hungary, Spain, England etc.) - that definitely adds up to a high percentage of good performances against those teams, and having a production as well. The 1969 final itself was a questionable performance, though he tried to force things with many of his team-mates half fit or at that time incapable of having a go at the opponent.
The list reflects combined input from BS posters. Most had Rivera at number one in 1969. There was recognition that reputation carried over from previous seasons may have favoured Rivera in the BdO voting, which turned out to be a two-horse race between Rivera and Riva (excluding South Americans of course). Tom Stevens and yourself agreed that Pele's position was not certain and could be anywhere between #2 and #10. @Once mentions that he was being challenged in Brazil by Tostao. You also remarked that Rivera in 1969 gave one of the finest EC final performances in history. Purely on 1969 form Riva may have been the stronger Italian candidate, but only one BS poster placed him first. In hindsight AC Milan's European Cup triumph assumes added importance as it was the last by an Italian club for 16 years.
1970-89: 1970: 1. Tostao, 2 Jairzinho, 3. Pele, 4. Muller, 5. Gerson. 1971: 1. Cruyff, 2. Best, 3. Artime, 4. Beckenbauer, 5. Mazzola. 1972: 1. Cruyff, 2. Beckenbauer, 3. Netzer, 4. Muller, 5. Ademir da Guia. 1973: 1. Cruyff, 2. Muller, 3. Brindisi, 4. Beckenbauer, 5. Zoff. 1974: 1. Cruyff, 2. Beckenbauer, 3. Deyna, 4. Figueroa, 5. Breitner 1975: 1. Blokhin, 2. Figueroa, 3. Beckenbauer, 4. Cruyff, 5. Norberto Alonso. 1976: 1. Beckenbauer, 2. Figueroa, 3. Rensenbrink, 4. Rivelino, 5. Viktor. 1977: 1. Keegan, 2. Cruyff, 3. Reinaldo, 4. Simonsen, 5. Bochini. 1978: 1. Kempes, 2. Rensenbrink, 3. Rossi, 4. Passarella, 5. Keegan. 1979: 1. Maradona, 2. Zico, 3. Falcao, 4. Keegan, 5. Krol. 1980: 1. Maradona, 2. Rummenigge, 3. Zico, 4. Toninho Cerezo, 5. Ceulemans. 1981: 1. Zico, 2. Rummenigge, 3. Maradona, 4. Platini, 5. Schuster. 1982: 1. Zico, 2. Falcao, 3. Rummenigge, 4. Scirea, 5. Boniek. 1983: 1. Platini, 2. Falcao, 3. Zico, 4. Socrates, 5. Dalglish. 1984: 1. Platini, 2. Francescoli, 3. Rush, 4. Tigana, 5. Romero. 1985: 1. Platini, 2. Maradona, 3. Junior, 4. Elkjaer, 5. Borghi. 1986: 1. Maradona, 2. Careca, 3. Lineker, 4. Belanov, 5. Butragueno. 1987: 1. Maradona, 2. Gullit, 3. Hugo Sanchez, 4. Futre, 5. Butragueno. 1988: 1. van Basten, 2. Gullit, 3. Maradona, 4. Koeman, 5. Mikhailichenko. 1989: 1. van Basten, 2. Maradona, 3. Matthaus, 4. Bebeto, 5. Baresi.
It’s a fine attempt. But I’ve always had an issue with the placing of Zico in the top 3 of 1979. He ranks well away from the top 3 in the South American award, with only 15 votes, and a large distance from 80 votes from the winner that year. I think Keegan fights it out with Maradona but that’s based on the Guerin Sportivo, Swedish athlete of the year, Ballon d’Or and El Mundo South American awards. However, I’m quite comfortable to believe Zico wouldn’t rank so high. 1982 is going to Paolo Rossi, no doubt about that in my view. I just can’t see how he’s not mentioned. 1983 Socrates has no chance ranked that high in my view and both Rummenigge and Maradona are definitely in the top 5. And I have serious doubts about Francescoli at number 2 in 1984. I have more reason to believe Rummenigge is still in the top 5 that year. https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/gu...awards-1979-1986.2019142/page-6#post-35800465
Thank you for your comments. When attempting to combine input from various threads covering this era, it was clear that there was quite a lot of disagreement among posters. As you say, Zico does not feature prominently in the 1979 South American Player of the Year award. He does however attract more support among the BS community than all bar Maradona. According to the ratings (and SAPOTY) Falcao was the best player in Brazilian domestic football that year. Zico was South American Player of the Year in 1982, as was Socrates in 1983 and Francescoli in 1984. The caveat is that not all American posters take this award seriously. Seven posters placed Zico at number one for 1982 and he has a high league rating. Only a couple were certain Rossi should be in the Top 3, given his shortage of club football. One perspective of the 1982 World Cup was that Brazil had the best players but Italy won it due to her defence - despite Bearzot ditching catenaccio and Rossi scoring six goals. I agree with your view expressed elsewhere that there are contradictions surrounding Rummenigge's playing legacy. He remains hard to place. Two BdOs and among the four or five highest ranked German footballers in history according to his countrymen, yet barely mentioned elsewhere (as a footballer) after he stopped playing. Not sure why.
Moving on to the 1990s: 1990: 1. Matthaus, 2. Maradona, 3. Baresi, 4. Brehme, 5. Rijkaard. 1991: 1. Matthaus, 2. Savicevic, 3. Papin, 4. Caniggia, 5. Prosinecki. 1992: 1. van Basten, 2. Stoichkov, 3. M Laudrup, 4. Bergkamp, 5. Rai. 1993: 1. R Baggio, 2. Bergkamp, 3. Valderrama, 4. Romario, 5. M Laudrup. 1994: 1. Romario, 2. Stoichkov, 3. R Baggio, 4. Maldini, 5. Hagi. 1995: 1. Weah, 2. Litmanen, 3. Klinsmann, 4. Maldini, 5. Francescoli. 1996: 1. Ronaldo, 2. Sammer, 3. Weah, 4. Litmanen, 5. Shearer. 1997: 1. Ronaldo, 2. Bergkamp, 3. Roberto Carlos, 4. Salas, 5. Mijatovic. 1998: 1. Zidane, 2. Ronaldo, 3. Suker, 4. Bergkamp, 5. Thuram. 1999: 1. Rivaldo, 2. Beckham, 3. Figo, 4. Batistuta, 5. Riquelme.
He was injured all the time and his Barcelona stay is not seen as a success, certainly by the end of 1983-84. He barely played more than 20 games in the year, with 6 of them in the short lived and Nunez organized Copa de Liga. He did not play for the national team and didn't do much in Europe, ended 4th in the league and Barcelona did just as well (points per game) without him. He is not "definitely" in the top 5. Truth is that KHR did not rank well either in all-time lists when he was still playing. Think of France Football in 1984 (their 2000th issue), Placar of the early 1980s or the IFB list. By the end of the 1980s it was not better, if anything worse. Same for Kevin Keegan. That might be harsh and absurd, but it is probably related to that he didn't play for the most popular teams (or at least among the popular and praised incarnations of those teams). As discussed and spelled out previously, it is probably also related to the lack of signature moments or signature games. He had quite a few opportunities to do so. He might fare better if he had cracked it in the semi finals and final games of the european cups (in particular the 1979 - 1982 prime), or great moments or performances in the big matches in the tournaments (not: Greece, with respect). It is a struggle to point at a memorable European performance when the continent was watching, perhaps less so later at Internazionale, but by then he was past his very best.
I am sympathetic to Zico for 1979. There are reasons to believe his two red cards at prominent moments cost him (at least the one in the Copa America). He performed in international games for club and country, and was fairly good and productive against the stronger opponents. He wasn't outplayed by Maradona in their direct encounter (or at least not conclusively) and was among the better players for the World XI game. His delivery against the top looks, if anything, better than what Keegan and Maradona did in the same year. It seems to be a valid idea (as mentioned previously by Vegan10) that Zico pimped his stats a lot in his own stadium against cannon fodder, and that in some years he didn't do anything in an international setting, or did fine against the best teams (1977, 1978, 1983 from memory, maybe also 1980). But not for 1979 I think.
Based on what the sources available at that time indicated he’s definitely listed in a top 5, but whether that warrants merit is another argument. Exactly, he’s a fan favorite here and most of those perceptions that share the views of him being ranked so high are based on revisionism thinking, generally utilizing statistics to back their claims, but a closer look at the evidence of any 1979 awards indicates that it’s hard to confirm any reasonable logic of him being listed in a top 3 worldwide that year.
1990 there’s no doubt the best number 10’s are Matthaus and Maradona, both top rated in Italian football in their positions and finalists at the World Cup as the leaders to their squads, but a serious contender that’s not mentioned in the top 3 is Schillachi, also fundamentally important for club and country as one of the best performers in Serie A that season but also best shot-maker at the World Cup. I’m surely surprised he’s not mentioned in a top 5.
Take it with a pinch of salt, but see also your own Guerin Sportivo: https://football-ratings.blogspot.com/2012/07/memory-lane-serie-198990.html Where is Schillaci? (or any of the other famous strikers?) And see also this: https://football-ratings.blogspot.com/2011/12/memory-lane-serie-1989-90.html Toto did score goals in Europe around that time though https://www.weltfussball.de/spieler_profil/salvatore-schillaci/uefa-cup-1989-1990/juventus/3/ https://www.weltfussball.de/spieler...laci/ec-der-pokalsieger-1990-1991/juventus/3/
In the GS “Hit Parade” of 1989/90, Schillachi is voted the second best player. The ratings are separate to the real value of how these players were finally viewed and ranked or else Gullit in 1987/88 would not feature in any top 5 in GS that year based on ratings alone. In addition, Schillaci with his top form as marksman at the World Cup, only strengthens his case as a serious nominee that year. I just don’t see how he should be overlooked.
Schillachi was second in the Ballon d'Or that year and is in the mix. BS posters preferred others over him. The fifth slot was very tight in 1990 with Barnes, Gascoigne, Goycochea, Klinsmann, Papin, Scifo and van Basten also receiving some support from posters. I suppose there are at least three ways of looking at these lists. How they might have looked had the awards been global from the start (as in your thread); how we think they should look; and thirdly which players BigSoccer posters in general believed should have been included. These latest lists are mainly an attempt to reflect the third point of view.