There are many threads about best players list, best national teams but I'm missing any about the better leagues in different periods. My main purpose isn't to make or discuss a top-10, even I'll post it, but to make some groupings of the very top leagues, big leagues and mid-level leagues for eras and promote some discussion about this. I was thinking made lists by decades, but I think a 5-year period, will reflect better some circunstances through history (UEFA's ban to First Division, colombian El Dorado, etc).
I'll use this great info as one factor to consider. The main data comes from UEFA 80-I ranking. 1980-84: 1st Tier: England, Serie-A, Bundesliga. 2nd Tier: Brasilerao, Argentina 3rd Tier: La Liga, Belgium. 4th Tier: USSR, Scotland, Portugal, Yugoslavia, Ligue-1, Czechoslovakia, Eredivisie, Uruguay, Colombia. Alongside european dominant Bundesliga and English First Div., Serie-A step up as 1st tier with “open borders” policy attracting world stars. As 2nd tiers, comes Brasilerao and Argentine leagues whom great NTs were local-based. The 3rd and 4th tiers is based in UEFA coefficients, in which spanish & french clubs underperformed at intl level. In SA, Uruguay had a couple of very good teams, also Colombia start a second “El Dorado” era with the influx of good argentine, peruvian and paraguayan players. Stars importer: Serie-A, English First Div. Int.class importer: Bundesliga, Argentina, La Liga, Ligue-1, Colombia. Main exporter: Brazil, Argentina. 2nd class exporter: Belgium, Scotland, Yugoslavia, Uruguay
Data from UEFA 80-II. 1985-90: 1st Tier: Serie-A, Bundesliga. 2nd Tier: La Liga, England 3rd Tier: Brasilerao, Argentina, Belgium. 4th Tier: Portugal, Eredivisie, USSR, Ligue-1, Uruguay, Colombia, Romania, Yugoslavia, Scotland. The 1st tier remain the same, but english club ban, make them step down. As 2nd tier, to the First Div., join a consolidated La Liga. In the 3rd tier, Brasilerao and Argentine league suffered with the outflux of main players. The rest European leagues are based on UEFA coefficients. Uruguay and Colombia remains at the previous level. Stars importer: Serie-A Int. class importer: La Liga, Bundesliga, First Div., Arg, Col, Por, Hol Main exporter: Brazil, Argentina. 2nd class exporter: Belgium, Holland, Scotland, Uruguay, Yugoslavia.
Let's continue with the 1990s. Data from UEFA 90-I. Also checking IFFHS data. 1990-94: 1st Tier: Serie-A. 2nd Tier: La Liga, Premier, Bundesliga 3rd Tier: Brasilerao, Argentina, Portugal, Ligue-1. 4th Tier: Eredivisie, Yugoslavia, Russia, Belgium, Chile, Scotland, Paraguay. Arguably the best era for Serie-A. Also the first Bundesliga with unified Germany (strangely also below level at NT). The first edition of Premier League, too. Ligue-1 step up, thanks to a great generation of players, also the late years of Belgium great generation who step down. When Yugoslavia has been entering a golden era, they were affected by war. USSR was divided into many countries, too. Stars importer: La Liga, Bundesliga, First Div., Serie-A, Ligue-1 Int. class importer: Arg, Por, Hol Main exporter: Brazil, Argentina. 2nd class exporter: Holland, Portugal, Uruguay, Yugoslavia, Russia
Data from UEFA 90-II. Also checking IFFHS data. 1995-99: 1st Tier: La Liga, Serie-A. 2nd Tier: Premier, Bundesliga, Ligue-1 3rd Tier: Brasilerao, Argentina, Eredivisie. 4th Tier: Portugal, Mexico, Russia, Colombia, Czechia, Grecee, Yugoslavia. Bosman rule affair, brought the consolidation of the big-5, at the expense of remaining leagues. La Liga started a great era. Eredivise and Mexican league also raised up their level. Stars importer: Big-5 Int. class importer: Arg, Por, Hol, Bra, Mex Main exporter: Brazil, Argentina. 2nd class exporter: Holland, Portugal, Uruguay, France, Croatia
To close the modern era, the 2000s. Data from UEFA 2000-I. 2000-04: 1st Tier: La Liga, Premier, Serie-A. 2nd Tier: Bundesliga, Ligue-1 3rd Tier: Brasilerao, Argentina, Eredivisie, Portugal. 4th Tier: Mexico, Greece, Scotland, Belgium, Colombia. In the big-5, the news is the great era for EPL. In the 3rd tier, an improvement in Primeira Liga Stars importer: Big-5 Int. class importer: Arg, Por, Hol, Bra, Mex Main exporter: Brazil, Argentina. 2nd class xporter: Holland, Portugal, Uruguay, France
Data from UEFA 2000-II. 2005-09: 1st Tier: La Liga, Premier. 2nd Tier: Bundesliga, Serie-A 3rd Tier: Ligue-1, Brasilerao, Argentina. 4th Tier: Eredivisie, Portugal, Mexico, Russia, Ukraine, Romania, Turkey. In the big-5, the news is the declining in Serie-A, also in Ligue-1. In the 3rd tier, the declining of Eredivisie and Primeira Liga Stars importer: Big-5 Int. class importer: Arg, Por, Hol, Bra, Mex Main exporter: Brazil, Argentina. 2nd class xporter: Holland, Portugal, Uruguay, France
Let me pick out this one; I'd say that plausibly Serie A doesn't belong in the highest tier (yet). Their average UEFA country ranking was 9.4 in these years, but the depth of the teams was solid yes. That is always the issue with many 'best league' arguments. The 'big' spending became progressively bigger in 1982 and then in 1984 especially. Until 1982 Serie A was clearly outspend by the Primera Division, that had a consistent rank between 2nd and 6th in the six years prior. It had a clear upper hand in buying the highest valued stars, and also a sleight edge in the mid-level ones. The phase that Serie A was more or less dominant in 'world record level' signings and the mid-level stars was from 1984 to 2000 roughly, with a peak between 1989 and 1995 as you indicate (with that I agree). This was probably unprecedented, yes. With the likes of Francescoli at Cagliari and Hagi at Brescia. They got competition from La Liga (for both the Ronaldos and mid-level stars) and Premier League in the 2nd half of the 1990s. In 1996 the Premier League surpassed the Serie A in revenues for the first time (source: Deloitte). For example La Liga had phases that they were dominant in the 'world record' stratospheres, but then not dominant at mid-level (for example the gradual losing of Silva, Mata of Valencia etc. after the 2008 financial crisis with even Atletico Madrid losing players as Aguero, Diego Costa to EPL).
Thank you for your comments. I admit that I'm not taking account some financial indicators as you do (revenues, transfer fees, etc) and I think is a good factor to improve the lists, if you have the link, would be nice. Talking about, Serie-A, in the first half of the 1980s, its country ranking put them in between highest/second tiers. I give them the benefit of the doubt, because the depth in local/foreign talent, even their clubs underperformed at intl. stage Until now, the 1990-I era, with Serie-A in a class in its own (the highest) is unprecedent in the modern era. But, I'm thinking in two older precedents (one at wartime and the other pre WW-I)
European Club Elo is not a very reliable gauge of the strength of the Italian league during much of the 1980s. This is mainly because of the time lag. At the end of the 1981-82 season, no Italian club had reached the European Cup Final for nine years. The last time an Italian club had lifted the trophy was in the 1960s. Italy then won the 1982 World Cup. Juventus were strong favourites to win the 1983 European Cup Final, fielding six members of the 1982 World Cup winning team, plus Platini and Boniek whose national teams were World Cup semi-finalists. Immediately after losing that final Juventus, probably the strongest club on the continent, had a European Club Elo rating of 19th. Serie A champions Roma were ranked 30th. The next highest Italian club Fiorentina were placed 61st. A year later there were only three Italian clubs in the Top 30. Serie A champions Juventus had risen to third place, European Cup runners-up Roma were 7th and Inter Milan 30th. After 1984/85, European Champions Juventus were ranked 5th by Elo, Roma 13th, Inter 16th and national champions Verona 22nd. After 1985/86, Juventus 6th, Roma 12th, with no others in the Top 30. At the end of the 1986/87 season, Juventus were 8th, Serie A champions Napoli 15th, Inter 24th and Roma 28th. After 1987/88, AC Milan 11th, Napoli 18th, Juventus 29th. Arguably it is only at the end of the 1988/89 season when Elo gets it right. AC Milan are now 2nd, Inter 3rd and Napoli 4th. Even then Liverpool retain Elo's top spot despite having being banned from Europe for the previous four seasons - another example of time lag.
There is a thread on the highest transfer fees. https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/highest-transfer-fees-ever.2065968/ At the moment Serie A really started to spend big (in 1982, increasing in 1984) Real Madrid and (domestically underperforming) Barcelona were #1 and #2 in the UEFA team ranking of 1983. Yes, there is a time lag, but this applies to all rising and falling leagues then, not just Serie A. The average UEFA league ranking is 9.4 - as mentioned above. The season-by-season performances (without time lag) are 12th in 1980, 6th, 14th, 6th and then 2nd in 1984. You can also see it in the top five of the South American Footballer of the year. Between 1971 and 1984 these top five players ended up in Spain (within the same timeframe): Julio Montero, Miguel Angel Brindisi, Fernando Morena, Carlos Caszely, Marinho Chagas, Luis Pereira, Mario Kempes, Dirceu, Diego Maradona, Patricio Yanez These ended up in Italy: Falcao, Zico, Uribe. Both Uribe and Falcao made the move after they ended in the top 10 for the first time in their career. As for the revenues thing. http://www.goal.com/en-ke/news/4744...el-what-caused-serie-a-to-lose-its-financial-
Fwiw, the Italian Federation banned clubs from signing non-Italian players after the 1966 World Cup. There was a 'reopening of the borders' after the Totonero scandal of 1980.
Looking the Highest Transfer Fees. In the 2005-09 era, there's only one case in Russia league, maybe not enough to upgrade to 3rd tier. The most called are in 1st tier league as expected. In the 2000-04 era, most cases are in 1st tier, three exceptions are in 2nd tier. In the 1995-99 era, english clubs expend as much as 1st tier leagues, so even their clubs underperformed, the local/foreign talent was there. So, it's the upgrade is debatable. In the 1990-94 era, Bundesliga is mentioned as much as french clubs, Ligue-1 ranking is equal to 2nd tier, but I guess the talent there wasn't comparable to 2nd tier, it could be a case to check the gap between them wasn't big. In the 1985-89 era , La Liga and Bundesliga are hardly mentioned, meanwhile french and scottish clubs do. Maybe, cases to considering. In the 1980-84 era, mainly italian and english clubs are mentioned, but for the prices, maybe a market value of the main clubs, if available, could be a better indicator. I don't mentioned the 2010s, but I'm guessing that Japan, chinese leagues and MLS comes into the map in the 4th tier.
Sure, many are aware of that (the First Division opened theirs in 1978; previously there was the requirement to live for two years in the UK before one could start playing). But it took time to develop the full effects. There wasn't immediate big spending in 1980. Maradona went to La Liga and not to Serie A. Country coefficients (no time lag): 1980: Germany 1st, France 2nd, Spain 4th, England 6th, Italy 12th 1981: Germany 2nd, England 3rd, France 5th, Italy 6th, Spain 7th (Netherlands 1st) 1982: Germany 1st, Spain 4th, England 6th, Italy 14th, France 17th 1983: Germany 2nd, Spain 5th, Italy 6th, France 12th, England 16th (Scotland 1st) 1984: England 1st, Italy 2nd, France 13th, Spain 16th, Germany 17th Now, with England one can say that they won consistently European Cups, or played the final, and took this competition more serious than the other two. But I'm not sure there's a credible excuse for Italy being consistently behind three other leagues until 1983. The UEFA coefficients (and the methodology) are also a bit political and not set in stone, but it reflects Italy had some ground to cover and make up. Team coefficients (no time lag): 1980: best ranked Italian team behind the best English, Spanish, French, German, Dutch, Scottish, Yugoslavian etc. teams 1981: best ranked Italian team behind the best English (Liverpool on #1), Spanish, Soviet, German and Dutch teams. 1982: best ranked Italian team behind the best English, German, Spanish, Soviet, French, Dutch etc. teams. 1983: best ranked Italian team behind the best German, Scottish, Belgian and Spanish team (Spanish team ranked ahead on tie-breaker). 1984: Juventus was ranked behind Liverpool at #1, ahead of Barcelona at #3. So their best team didn't measure up particularly well either.
This outflux of main players wasn't something new. It was only less noticeable because they moved (at times) out of the picture for the national teams (Julinho for example). CBF their own data show an export of 100-200 players each year, until 1993. If you look at the best players by birthyear, by myself or 'TalkSport', then all except Pelé went to Europe sooner or later. From Jairzinho to Caszely or Cubillas. Look at the best by birthyear from 1940 onward and see how many (eventually) responded to the call from Europe. Sometimes in their late 20s, but sometimes also earlier. By the late 1970s it was near to full swing. The "main player" of Brazil during the 1978 World Cup was unquestionably Dirceu. It didn't take long before he ended up at Atletico Madrid. Of Argentina, a handful starters responded to the opening of the First Division (in 1978) as we all know. The "main player" Kempes was already in Europe. On Zico there were doubts by European teams, too (based on performances against them). If you look at the topscorer table of the 1979 Metropolitano and Nacional, then you see that all of them tried in Europe during the nearby surrounding years (Babington in the 2nd division etc.). In 90% of the cases they were not a success, by the way, but that is a different topic. As I said: if there is a time lag for rising leagues, then there is also one for other leagues?
I don't express well the idea. The new, wasn't the outflux of main players, in his late 20s. The new, is the stars outflux in his early 20s and the increase of the outflux, not 100 players as it used to be, but 300 or more around the world. The WC squads since the 1980s show that, compared to previous rosters, also at Copa America. Two different problems
Some factors considered for tiers, nothing elaborated, just a quick thinking: - Club performances at international level - Competition inside (gap between top/mid table clubs, market value, etc.). - Top stars playing (making player of the year lists, Highest transfers, etc) - Depth in foreign stars - Depth in local talent. - Average attendance. - Revenues Consistency, between 2-5 good years, to measure level, also change into tiers.
One measure is the regularity with which leagues provide finalists in the annual main European club competition - the European Cup/Champions League. Before 2000 no country had provided both finalists. The most notable periods of ascendancy up till then were: 9 finalists in 10 seasons - Italy 1989-98 9 in 11 - Spain 1956-66 9 in 11 - England 1975-85 (banned 1986-90) 5 in 5 - Netherlands 1969-73 4 in 4 - West Germany 1974-77 4 in 5 - Portugal 1961-65 4 in 5 - Italy 1963-67 3 in 3 - Italy 1983-85 3 in 4 - West Germany 1980-83 3 in 4 - Portugal 1987-90 Since 2000 each period of ascendancy has included at least one year when the country in question provided both finalists. 8 finalists in 8 seasons - England 2005-12 8 in 9 - Spain 2009-17 (provided both finalists twice) 5 in 5 - Spain 1998-2002 4 in 4 - Germany 2010-13 4 in 5 - Italy 2003-07 Since 1996, the year of the Bosman ruling, the only year when a league outside the Big Four has provided a finalist is 2004, when Porto met Monaco. For clubs in the Big Four leagues (Spain, Italy, England, [West] Germany), the longest periods without reaching a final have been: 13 seasons - West Germany 1961-73 11 - England 1957-67 (did not enter in 1956) 9 - Italy 1974-82 9 - [West] Germany 1988-96 8 - England 1991-98 (banned for five further seasons 1986-90, making 13 seasons absent from 1986) 7 - Spain 1967-73 7 - Germany 2003-09 6 - England 1969-74 6 - Spain 1975-80 5 - Spain 1987-91 5 - England 2000-04 5 - England 2013-17 Only once have Italian clubs been away from the final for five consecutive seasons.
A correction. English clubs were effectively suspended in 1991 as well since league champions Liverpool served an additional ban. So English clubs were absent from the final for 7 active seasons 1992-98, plus an additional six due to the ban. 7 - England 1992-98 (banned for six further seasons 1986-91, making 13 seasons absent from 1986)
Now, the second part. The 1970s. Data from UEFA 1970-I. 1970-74: 1st Tier: Brasilerao, Bundesliga, England. 2nd Tier: Argentina, Eredivisie 3rd Tier: Serie-A, USSR, La Liga. 4th Tier: Uruguay, Perú, E.Germany, Yugoslavia, Ligue-1, Scotland, Portugal, Mexico, Belgium, Hungary. With a real national competition, the Brasilerao became a first tier championship, also Bundesliga reached its maturity level. At english First Division, the WC champion generation was declining, also old stars in Serie-A weren't replaced due to close-borders policy. It's interesting, Mexican league signing many south american stars from second tier countries, also many good argentine players. Stars importer: - Int. class importer: Brasilerao, Bundesliga, Argentina, England, Eredivisie, La Liga, Ligue-1, Mexico Main exporter: - 2nd class exporter: Brazil, Argentina, Yugoslavia, Scotland, Sweden.
Data from UEFA 1970-II. 1975-79: 1st Tier: Bundesliga, England. 2nd Tier: Brasilerao, Argentina, La Liga 3rd Tier: Serie-A, Eredivisie, Belgium. 4th Tier: Ligue-1, USSR, Perú, E.Germany, Yugoslavia, Chile, Czechoslovakia, Mexico, Poland. In Brasilerao, Brazil WC champions were declining, also foreign stars signed years ago. La Liga, had signed some of the biggest stars of the era. Belgium had a new generation of great players, also some european class players. Meanwhile, many dutch players playing abroad were the cause of its league decrease its level. Stars importer: La Liga Int. class importer: Bundesliga, England, Belgium, Ligue-1, Mexico Main exporter: Brazil, Argentina 2nd class exporter: Holland, Yugoslavia, Scotland.
Now, the 1960s. Data from UEFA 1960-I. 1960-64: 1st Tier: La Liga, Serie-A. 2nd Tier: England, Paulista, Carioca 3rd Tier: Argentina, Uruguay, Hungary, Portugal. 4th Tier: Scotland, Czechoslovakia, USSR, Yugoslavia, Oberliga West, Oberliga Süd. In the golden era for brazilian football, they were divided into State championship, being the most important Carioca and Paulista championship. In the case of West Germany, I considered Oberliga West and Süd as the most dominant in this era. Serie-A and La Liga had many world class foreign players in their leagues. Argentina also signed many south american stars to replace his own stars playing abroad, but the local-based talent decrease its level. French golden generation was gone. Also Yugoslavia was in transition to a new generation and Portugal had its first golden generation. Stars importer: La Liga, Serie-A Int. class importer: Argentina, England Main exporter: Argentina 2nd class exporter: Brazil, Scotland, Sweden.
Data from UEFA 1960-II. 1965-69: 1st Tier: England, Serie-A. 2nd Tier: Argentina, La Liga, Bundesliga, Paulista 3rd Tier: Uruguay, Hungary, Scotland. 4th Tier: Portugal, USSR, Eredivisie, Czechoslovakia, Chile, Poland, Perú, Carioca, Gaucho. The dominance of world football by spanish clubs was over. In an era of few stars playing abroad, the first tiers leagues had the better foreign players, in the case of Serie-A, no new signings were allowed after WC 1966 disaster. In Brazil, Paulista clubs owned the Robertão and Taça Brazil championships. Many steps below comes the Carioca and Gaucho clubs. This era saw the unification of West German football in a national league, the Bundesliga. Also Dutch league come into scene, exploiting the next era with a golden generation and some european stars playing in Eredivisie. Stars importer: - Int. class importer: Serie-A, La Liga, Argentina, England Main exporter: Argentina 2nd class exporter: Brazil, Scotland, Yugoslavia.
Now, the 1950s. 1950-54: 1st Tier: Serie-A, England. 2nd Tier: La Liga, Argentina, El Dorado, Paulista, Carioca 3rd Tier: Uruguay, Hungary, Ligue-1, Austria. 4th Tier: Scotland, Yugoslavia, Portugal, Perú, Oberliga Südwest, Oberliga Süd. On paper, Serie-A could be the #1 league, but its clubs weren't so dominant at Latin Cup (main european club championship), mostly dominated by Ligue-1 clubs. La Liga started a great era, signing second class stars and for the latter years of this era, first class stars. In the first years of the 1950s reached its peak, a phenomenon called El Dorado, in which a non-existent, at world map, colombian league, explot with the signing of thousands of international players from Argentina, Peru, Paraguay, Uruguay, Brazil, UK, Yugoslavia, Hungary, Costa Rica, etc. Many clubs fielded in the league a complete XI from any of those nations. Argentine league was the worst hit with El Dorado era. The second most affected was peruvian league, but until early 1950s. Stars importer: Serie-A, El Dorado Int. class importer: La Liga, Argentina, England, Ligue-1 Main exporter: Argentina 2nd class exporter: Brazil, Scotland, Sweden, Perú.