Better athletes - rugby/American football?

PsychedelicCeltic · May 12, 2005

OrlandoSPUR said:

Back is in the Lions squad? he retired from England NT rugby.
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Yes. He retired from England because Woodward dropped him. Now he's back in the Lions. Ridiculous. He is not a Test-quality flanker. If Martyn Williams gets the screw, I'll be supporting NZ.

ozhawk66 · May 14, 2005

ozhawk66 said:

Maybe a better question would be: wich positions and athletes (by name?) could make a transition from one sport to the other.
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I'm guessing there aren't any takers, as it would be hard to find the average rugby/league player - weighing in anywhere from 100-125+ kg and clocking 40 yd times in the range of 4.5 to 4.8/9 seconds - that could make this sort of physical, transition.

Caesar · May 14, 2005

No takers because it's a dumb question.

Few rugby players have the correct physique for gridiron, and few gridiron players have the correct physique for rugby. As has already been made abundantly clear. Not that this has ANYTHING WHATSOEVER with which group are the 'better athletes'. The fact that it's been 7 pages and you STILL DON'T ********ING GET IT is more a testament to your incredible, mind-numbing, lack of understanding than the worthwhile nature of this topic.

For the love of god, somebody euthanise this discussion.

ozhawk66 · May 14, 2005

Caesar said:

No takers because it's a dumb question.

Few rugby players have the correct physique for gridiron, and few gridiron players have the correct physique for rugby.

Please esplain, just what the "correct" physique is, for any athlete to try and make the transition to the other sport?

Or maybe, you as a big soccer fan/mod, have a hard time either dealing with, or comprehending the size and speed factor of even the smaller, NFL athlete?

And for someone to say "few gridiron players" have the "correct" pysique for ruby, must have a hard time comprehending that a 100kg guy, clocking a 10 second flat 100 meters, can run through so called monsters like a Willie Mason, or a Wilkenson.......the problem is, those Mason's or Wilkensons', need to pack on an extra 20/30+ kilos, just to get on the field to try and whack a small, speed demon back like Michael Bennett.

As has already been made abundantly clear. Not that this has ANYTHING WHATSOEVER with which group are the 'better athletes'. The fact that it's been 7 pages and you STILL DON'T ********ING GET IT is more a testament to your incredible, mind-numbing, lack of understanding than the worthwhile nature of this topic.

Nice pontificating on your part here, but if it was THAT abundantly clear, then your open mind would have found a way, in these 7 pages of yours, too make it oh so easy too put me down. Correct?

How stupifying, original, can one ignat get? Where? Look up at the dumb, link.
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OldFanatic · May 14, 2005

Caesar said:

The fact that it's been 7 pages and you STILL DON'T ********ING GET IT is more a testament to your incredible, mind-numbing, lack of understanding than the worthwhile nature of this topic.

For the love of god, somebody euthanise this discussion.
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I already asked BhoysFC ages ago to close this mental diarrhea (sent email/PM) as well as requested thread closure above. Why BhoysFC has still kept it alive, I'll never know.

The guy is an absolute idiotic troll. Do a search on his post history. BTW, he's not an Australian at all. He is an American, but posing to be an Australian.

ozhawk66 · May 14, 2005

Chandu said:

I already asked BhoysFC ages ago to close this mental diarrhea (sent email/PM) as well as requested thread closure above. Why BhoysFC has still kept it alive, I'll never know.

The guy is an absolute idiotic troll. Do a search on his post history. BTW, he's not an Australian at all. He is an American, but posing to be an Australian.
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Nice try but I'm not a liar, ignat. I think it's pretty obvious that I'm an American, so I'm not sure how I can be guilty of posing. And anyone who doesn't have the capability or open mind to at least try to debate, should either ignore and or just change channels.

Your just sounding more and more like rugby fan who can't deal with handling the losing end of a debate.

ozhawk66 · May 14, 2005

Chandu said:

I already asked BhoysFC ages ago to close this mental diarrhea (sent email/PM) as well as requested thread closure above. Why BhoysFC has still kept it alive, I'll never know.

The guy is an absolute idiotic troll. Do a search on his post history. BTW, he's not an Australian at all. He is an American, but posing to be an Australian.
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Your just another example that reminds me that some rugby/league fans only have the mentality for a game of checkers, when American football is a game of chess. All because your open mind calls me an idiot and accuses me of posing as an Aussie - when I'm the one who's willing and able to debate on a cordial level, unlike yourself.

condor11 · May 15, 2005

ozhawk66 said:

Your just another example that reminds me that some rugby/league fans only have the mentality for a game of checkers, when American football is a game of chess. All because your open mind calls me an idiot and accuses me of posing as an Aussie - when I'm the one who's willing and able to debate on a cordial level, unlike yourself.
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you already stated you dont follow union

you dont know who sivivatu and anesi are two name 2 speedsters of the game

you dont know the type of work fowards go trough in a match

yet you continue to attempt to compare athletes from vastly different sports

ozhawk66 · May 15, 2005

condor11 said:

you already stated you dont follow union

I watch, have watched the game, but I don't follow it in the sense I don't care enough to spend what leisure time I do have to follow the game. I also don't follow billiards or golf, but I've watched enough of both sports to play and recognize the top players in their game, and watch enough to pass an educated judgment on the two sports. Same with rugby, but more so with league. Heck, they replay enough of rugby/league matches down here throughout the week, it's hard to miss

you dont know who sivivatu and anesi are two name 2 speedsters of the game

Meaningless point as I could do the same with you. But I did a quick google to know that they are smaller than their respective counterparts in American football by a good 20-25 lbs.

And from what I gathered in my short search - even though they play for the same team - Anesi is considered a bit faster than Sivivatu. And the only time I could find was a 4.53 second 40 meter dash run by Anesi. This would translate into about a 4.7/8+ second time in the 40 yard dash.

Not even in the same league with the faster running backs and wide receivers in the NFL. Heck, were getting 145 kg guys clocking 4.85 second times nowdays in the 40. This is what I mean, it's hard for rugby/league fans to comprehend the types of athletes that make up the NFL these days. It's one of the necessary, mandatory conditions required to absorb the sort of punishment that is part of the game.

you dont know the type of work fowards go trough in a match

I bet I have a better idea about your forward's workload, than you know about offensive/defensive lineman techniques, basic defensive alignments, formations etc in American football. But for arguments sake, there is about the same ratio/number of forwards in rugby as there are lineman in American football.

yet you continue to attempt to compare athletes from vastly different sports
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Not completely different as both sports are related, in many ways. The same basic objectives are just generally reached in different ways - sometimes

condor11 · May 15, 2005

ozhawk66 said:

Not completely different as both sports are related, in many ways. The same basic objectives are just generally reached in different ways - sometimes
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they are vastly different

just look at the tackles, in rugby after a tackle is made play dosnt stop,

this isnt the case for american football, once a tackle is made and the ball carroier is down thats its, till the next play

rugby fowards are prepared for the endurance required to get trough all the phases

Paddy31 · May 15, 2005

[QUOTE ozhawk66]And from what I gathered in my short search - even though they play for the same team - Anesi is considered a bit faster than Sivivatu. And the only time I could find was a 4.53 second 40 meter dash run by Anesi. This would translate into about a 4.7/8+ second time in the 40 yard dash. [/quote]

40 meters is further than 40 yards. 40 meters is actually 43.74453193350831 yards.Therefore Anesi's time over 40 yards would be less than 4.53s.

Using some fairly simple maths, I calculated that Anesi's time over 40 yards would be 4.14s. That's based on the figures you gave.

I don't believe you have seen a game of Rugby, let alone played one. This thread is a sophisticated troll, and you just want to say NFL rocks. Which it does.

However, the players in NFL are "burst" players, trained to exert maximum performance over a very short duration. They are intensely specialised. Your comparison between Rugby and Gridiron is facile, and frankly I don't think you have actually thought about any of the replies posted here yet.

The error above really makes my point.

Caesar · May 15, 2005

ozhawk66 said:

the only time I could find was a 4.53 second 40 meter dash run by Anesi. This would translate into about a 4.7/8+ second time in the 40 yard dash.
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Oh.

My.

********ing.

God.

That just about sums up the level of your analysis on this thread.

ozhawk66 · May 15, 2005

condor11 said:

they are vastly different

just look at the tackles, in rugby after a tackle is made play dosnt stop,

And rugby doesn't pack a scrum after every play like they do in American football. I still try and keep the comparisons to comparable aspects of the sport.

this isnt the case for american football, once a tackle is made and the ball carroier is down thats its, till the next play

Continuous play in rugby is equaled by every player involved on every play in football, with many of those players in one-on-one contact. The same can't be said about rugby.

rugby fowards are prepared for the endurance required to get trough all the phases
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They are prepared because they are also allowed to pace themselves, when not involved on the play of ball/tackle, during normal play of the ball. Correct? Of course I'm right.

ozhawk66 · May 15, 2005

Paddy31 said:

40 meters is further than 40 yards. 40 meters is actually 43.74453193350831 yards.Therefore Anesi's time over 40 yards would be less than 4.53s.

Well, my metric conversion trick worked a bit better than hoped as 3 people responded to that post within an hour of each other. I'm not sure any of my posts got that quick of a response. The point being; you guys sure seemed willing and able to jump in when an obvious screw up was spotted or when you surly thought you had an overriding point to prove or make. Anyone who knows both systems know a yard is longer than a meter, but that 40 meter example is longer than 40 yards.

Using some fairly simple maths, I calculated that Anesi's time over 40 yards would be 4.14s. That's based on the figures you gave.

I didn't think about this part when I pulled that 4.53 time out of a hat - never heard of rugby clocking 40 times, just 100 meter times, but I may be wrong - as I thought someone else would point out to me that rugby doesn't clock players in 40 meter times.

By the way, there ain't no way that guy is running a 4.14 40 yd LOL Bennett from my Vikings runs a flat 10 second 100 meters and he runs about a 4.3/4 second 40 yd dash.

I don't believe you have seen a game of Rugby, let alone played one. This thread is a sophisticated troll, and you just want to say NFL rocks. Which it does.

Don't know why NOT playing the game makes it any less relevant to make observations and judgments on the game. By this reasoning, every rugby fan in the world that hasn't played the game is irrelevant, in this sense.

However, the players in NFL are "burst" players, trained to exert maximum performance over a very short duration.

Endurance is tested in many ways in the NFL before a player is drafted. Running isn't the ONLY criteria in gaging endurance.

They are intensely specialised. Your comparison between Rugby and Gridiron is facile, and frankly I don't think you have actually thought about any of the replies posted here yet.

I've thought through them all, but it seems obvious in many cases that this is also true about you - especially when you cite the "specialized' and "endurance" as the rugby player being somehow better than the athlete in American football.

The error above really makes my point.
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I'm glad you jumped on this "error" as you have shown your are capable of debating the differences between the two sports.......when you want too.

ozhawk66 · May 15, 2005

Caesar said:

Oh.

My.

********ing.

God.

That just about sums up the level of your analysis on this thread.
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And your response summarizes your level of retorts in this tread.

Caesar · May 15, 2005

ozhawk66 said:

And your response summarizes your level of retorts in this tread.
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I try to make the punishment fit the crime.

ozhawk66 · May 15, 2005

Caesar said:

I try to make the punishment fit the crime.
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Original.

Maybe you could debate the points on their merit instead of berating them, which isn't exactly the sign of a winning argument or legit debating skills.

Caesar · May 15, 2005

ozhawk66 said:

Original.

Maybe you could debate the points on their merit instead of berating them, which isn't exactly the sign of a winning argument or legit debating skills.
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Show me some merit and I'll show you some debating skills.

A coherent discussion requires a less flimsy topic. The comparision, as has been pointed out and explained in kindergarten English by numerous people, is facile. All that is to be said has been said numerous times already. Your inability to understand this seems to indicate a severe deficiency in the cerebral cortex.

Either that, or (I suspect) an addiction to trolling.

ozhawk66 · May 15, 2005

Caesar said:

Show me some merit and I'll show you some debating skills.

The problem with your definition of merit, is that it's limited to your narrow, rugby view of things. The most recent example was when I called you out to elaborate on just what is the "correct physique" of the rugby player and the NFL athlete is. You ignored it and have since replied with the meaningless retorts.

A coherent discussion requires a less flimsy topic. The comparision, as has been pointed out and explained in kindergarten English by numerous people, is facile. All that is to be said has been said numerous times already. Your inability to understand this seems to indicate a severe deficiency in the cerebral cortex.

You sound like an under 19 who discovered a thesaurus. What has been flimsy has been the lack of content in some of your replies - as the "correct physique" example shows that I cited above.

Either that, or (I suspect) an addiction to trolling.
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Trollers go around flaming, firing the 1st shots instead of actual debate. Such is not the case as I have even elaborated extensively at times. Such is not the case with you, as evidenced by your most recent postings and ignoring the last question I posed to you. And if I was a troller, that would be evident in my other postings in different threads on this site. And again, this is not the case, is it.

Paddy31 · May 16, 2005

Ozhawk66 said:

Well, my metric conversion trick worked a bit better than hoped as 3 people responded to that post within an hour of each other. I'm not sure any of my posts got that quick of a response. The point being; you guys sure seemed willing and able to jump in when an obvious screw up was spotted or when you surly thought you had an overriding point to prove or make. Anyone who knows both systems know a yard is longer than a meter, but that 40 meter example is longer than 40 yards.
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A meter is longer than a yard.

A yard is less than a meter.

Metric conversion trick? Did you fail basic maths?

OldFanatic · May 16, 2005

Paddy31 said:

Metric conversion trick? Did you fail basic maths?
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He failed basic everything. Stop replying to the troll, guys.

ozhawk66 · May 16, 2005

Paddy31 said:

A meter is longer than a yard.

A yard is less than a meter.

Metric conversion trick? Did you fail basic maths?
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Yes, yes, yes. One meter is slightly longer than a yard. Now that we have established the obvious, twice, maybe you'll wonder why I specifically threw that comment out to see what you would debate - the meter/yard comment or the fact that your claim that Anesi was actually running 40 yards in 4.14s.

You guys are so gullible and willing to pounce on something so rudimentary basic as the difference between the yard and meter, you glossed over the VERY next part of the SAME sentence : "but that 40 meter example is longer than 40 yards."

Did that blatant contradiction go over your head or were you just too willing to pounce?

So basically, you pounced twice, or fell for twice; for the same "conversion trick" instead of backing up your claim in which I questioned.

These are the actions of people unwilling or unable to debate seriously, cause your acting like your coming from the losing end of the debate - when there was some debating, going on.

ps) I didn't take maths, I took math. I also didn't need to take reading comp lessons once I passed the 3rd grade, unlike some other obvious examples in here.

ozhawk66 · May 16, 2005

Chandu said:

He failed basic everything. Stop replying to the troll, guys.
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You haven't answered anything since this thread started. You don't seem to have an answer for why the rugby player is smaller and slower, other than the basic talking point mantra that the rugby player is fitter cause they run around more - which is debatable.

You play blind and claim there is no real difference in the talent level of professional rugby and the NFL, when the rugby world lets 18/19 year old teenagers play pro rugby, when there isn't any possible way this could happen in the NFL, for many reasons.

And there's an obvious myth amongst rugby fans 'bout NFL athletes all roided up, when such is not the case. You guys have a hard time understanding that the injury rate is higher and more severe in American football, and you guys also can't seem to comprehend why the NFL can't play the same sort of regular season schedule that they do play in rugby/league, and why it's physically impossible for players to play both ways - like they used to 50 years ago.

Here's a hint - for all intensive purposes, rugby/league hasn't changed dramatically the way American football has evolved over the past years, decades, centuries....

In conclusion, American football evolved from rugby the way man evolved from the apes.

This is why American football can be viewed as a game of chess, while rugby is a game of friendly checkers.

condor11 · May 16, 2005

ozhawk66 said:

They are prepared because they are also allowed to pace themselves, when not involved on the play of ball/tackle, during normal play of the ball. Correct? Of course I'm right.
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pace themselves?

wtf are you talking about?

if a pro player is pacing themselves they will soon find themselves on the bench(which btw is considerably smaller than nfl benches)

ozhawk66 said:

And rugby doesn't pack a scrum after every play like they do in American football. I still try and keep the comparisons to comparable aspects of the sport.
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and thats where your flaw comes in, apart from being a contact sport and playing with an oval ball the sports are vastly different

it seems you cant get your head around this

ozhawk66 said:

Continuous play in rugby is equaled by every player involved on every play in football, with many of those players in one-on-one contact. The same can't be said about rugby.
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is every player involved in every minute of the game?

rugby teams dont have offence or defence teams they have 15 players and 7 reserves, thats it

how long does each play last in american football?

plays are longer in rugby

from a scrum there can be 15 phases before the next start of play

which again is why you CANT COMPARE the athletes, as they play totally different sports

Paddy31 · May 16, 2005

ozhawk66 said:

Yes, yes, yes. One meter is slightly longer than a yard. Now that we have established the obvious, twice, maybe you'll wonder why I specifically threw that comment out to see what you would debate - the meter/yard comment or the fact that your claim that Anesi was actually running 40 yards in 4.14s.

You guys are so gullible and willing to pounce on something so rudimentary basic as the difference between the yard and meter, you glossed over the VERY next part of the SAME sentence : "but that 40 meter example is longer than 40 yards."

Did that blatant contradiction go over your head or were you just too willing to pounce?

So basically, you pounced twice, or fell for twice; for the same "conversion trick" instead of backing up your claim in which I questioned.

These are the actions of people unwilling or unable to debate seriously, cause your acting like your coming from the losing end of the debate - when there was some debating, going on.

ps) I didn't take maths, I took math. I also didn't need to take reading comp lessons once I passed the 3rd grade, unlike some other obvious examples in here.
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Is your suggestion that your mistakes in practically every post you've made are clever traps to fool us terribly deluded Rugby fans?

Great way to debate. Make a shedload of ********-ups and then say it was all part of a cunning strategy. Brilliant! Are you related to the Bush family? Have you worked for Haliburton?

The "blatant contradiction" didn't go over anyone's head. I thought you were being stupid.

The 40yard time for Anesi came from your figures. You put that number up there from your own dodgy research. I simply corrected your crappy maths. Tell me where you got the original data from please.