Laudrup and Valderrama are better in playmaking and passing then Cruyff. Gianni Rivera also deserve a place in playmaking/passing category.
First Romario would have to learn how to do The elastico The reverse elastico The roulette (360) Back control Rabona Romario was just the most skillful box striker with his sombreros (that he stole from maradona so please don't make it sound as if he was some sort of pioneer) Those players I listed consistently used skills to beat their opponents at low or high speed so you are claiming that at least 350-400 were scored with the outside of his foot? Give me 20 examples just from Europe
Which cruyff? The younger prime version(probably) Or the older version (feyenoord)who was one of the greatest playmakers of all time (with superior vision,outside of the foot long balls that were almost impossible to execute)
Maradona, Messi, Bergkamp, Ronaldinho, Zidane, Pele, Romario are Tier 1 in terms of Ball control and First Touch Tier 2 can be Cruyff, Zico, Ronaldo Nazario, Neymar, CR etc
In First touch no-one is definitely better than Antonio cassano There are ball controls he pulled of that can't even be replicated on a playstation console Check his goal against inter milan which was one of the strongest teams in italy at that time Technically that was as great a goal as there has ever been In other facets messi is superior particularly in long balls,close control and finishing
Not sure where we would fit meazza and perhaps he is the first technical genius of football Legend has it that during the 1933 season, Meazza made a bet with Giampiero Combi, the mythic goalkeeper of Juventus and captain of the 1934 World Champion Italian National Team. Combi challenged Meazza, claiming that nobody, not even Meazza, could sidestep him to score a goal. Meazza accepted the challenge. The next game between Ambrosiana Inter and Juventus was played in the Arena di Milano and Meazza managed to score a stupendous goal. He dribbled through a series of defenders, amongst them the Italo-Argentine Luis Monti another 1934 World Champion, before faking out Combi, dribbled past him, and scored a tap-in goal. Combi immediately got up and shook Meazza's hand. https://pesstatsdatabase.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2652
he did all of the above Rabona? he did it many times. Against the best defender of all times Franco Baresi. Traps ball with the chest, does Cruyff turn, immediately follows with a rabona pass into the danger zone. check minute 1:00 (aerial trap, Cruyff turn, rabona pass) vs Baresi elastico?. Scoring a fantastic goal with elastico. Can't better that one! Maradona did not pioneer sombreros either. He stole it from others as much as any body else before and after him. you are so childish! can you show me anywhere I claimed 350-400 goals he scored with the outside of his foot? Examples just from Europe? You would have known if only you had seen him play. You didn't These comments and demands of yours here above are infantile. Anyways, I would rather hear comments from other posters on this topic, for change sake, considering that we know your hatred for certain players would make you too biased a poster to have any meaningful constructive discussion about this.
Valderrama was one of the very few playmakers who didn't have to run at all. He could stay put in one place and give passes, short and long, to any spot on the pitch with little effort. He was slow but incredible accurate with his passes. Laudrup, was gifted with his blind passes and was gifted at creating spaces with his passes. He had great vision of the game as well But by far, the most entertaining playmaker of them all, in my opinion, was Ronaldinho. He was the most creative and inventive passer I ever saw
@greatstriker11 definitely agree with Romario as a top tier technician, his touch and shooting technique were incredible, and the younger Romario could dribble well. It's like he had an extra acceleration within his acceleration without losing control of the ball. Choosing between him, Ronaldo and Van Basten (each on their best day) is one of the hardest comparisons in football for me. All three very different, but technically perfect for their styles.
Depends on how often he did those stuffs. I remember his great ball control before delivering the cross to Balotelli in Euro 2012. Majority of the console games are ridiculously bad at first touch
Ed, even though you have given your views on Ronaldinho's technique years ago in different threads, time can change perspectives, so how would you describe his technique overall in his heydays and what tier level would you class him? Also, I haven't heard any body mentioning another technical maestro who goes by the name Reinaldo! Reinaldo was a technical maestro who could do everything and anything with the ball. Zico saying in an interview that Reinaldo came close to Pele from a technical point
For me Ronaldinho is amongst the very very best to have ever done it in this aspect. Touch, close control, passing, tricks/ball manipulation, juggling, first time flicks & passes, free kicks, heading(underrated), shooting. Can't think of any thing he didn't excel at. He could have scored more but maybe that's more of his mentality than shooting technique. He wasn't aggressively attacking the box the way CR7 & Messi do. His 03-04 season is divine however. Again, like most, once the physical aspect went down he couldn't execute as frequently. Couldn't create the extra yard of space, didn't have the stamina to keep doing it for the full 90 minutes or several matches consistently. It's hard to do rankings on such a topic, but if I had to I wouldn't place anyone above him. He'd be amongst the GOAT candidates.
On a similar topic to what Ed touched on there I had been thinking myself that it's hard to evaluate and separate the verdict on techniques from the overall output (goals being the most obvious one to measure). I agree in terms of the technical quality not determining the end product (and it can apply to running with the ball and other stuff too, where other factors are important, and even style of play). However among a few adjustments to this I came up with before for my 10 chosen nominees (mostly being a bit less generous): "In terms of the categories you came up with Carlito (which can be a good guide to different ways in which technical qualities can be measured...but maybe hard to say it covers it completely)…. I'd possibly go with this from a technical perspective only (6 being relatively normal, 10 being a level few players possessed): Controlling the ball - Hoddle 9.5, Best 9 (Zico 9.5, Zidane 10, Maradona 9.5, Bergkamp 10, Ronaldinho 10, Del Piero 9, Laudrup 9.5, Stojkovic 9) Running with the ball - Hoddle 6.5, Best 10 (Zico 9, Zidane 8.5, Maradona 10, Bergkamp 7, Ronaldinho 9, Del Piero 8, Laudrup 9.5, Stojkovic 8) Passing the ball - Hoddle 10, Best 7.5 (Zico 9.5, Zidane 9, Maradona 9, Bergkamp 9.5, Ronaldinho 8.5, Del Piero 8, Laudrup 9.5, Stojkovic 9) Shooting - Hoddle 9, Best 8.5 (Zico 9.5, Zidane 8.5, Maradona 8.5, Bergkamp 9.5, Ronaldinho 8.5, Del Piero 10, Laudrup 7.5, Stojkovic 9)" ….I had been thinking of nudging both Maradona and Ronaldinho down to 8 for shooting. On the one hand we shouldn't discount the quality finishes they were capable of (and very effective free-kick techniques or example), but on the other hand maybe they weren't really top level for reliability of shooting or variety of finishes. I was even thinking of going down to 7 for Laudrup too, although I'd definitely not think he should be going any lower than that. Similarly for controlling the ball I thought I could settle on a straight 9 for Laudrup, even though I'd be kind of reluctant and at times it'd seem worth more at least (9 still indicating a really excellent level at it though). If leaving Del Piero on 9 for that too, it could be like the Totti/Del Piero comparison where I lean towards one player (not Del Piero in either case) but might not necessarily score them differently thinking about it like that! I was dubious about it but I thought maybe Zico down to a straight 9 for controlling the ball also. Maybe I'm influenced by moving more towards matching my order for those 10 I originally had in mind, with the scores, but that wouldn't really be necessary anyway. With that in mind, for running with the ball (and redefining it to moving with the ball maybe - just like I suppose passing incorporates crossing in theory) I thought about possibly raising Zidane to 9, but I still do think that in terms of pure dribbling and for example mazy slalom dribbles on the run, getting into the penalty area, Zico is better suited to that than Zidane (including technically speaking in terms of the touches on the ball performing that kind of action probably). It's pretty hard to settle on precise numbers anyway to be honest!
I can understand that's not a ridiculous idea (even though it would put him on 3 10s!), but I felt aside from being mainly one-footed (which I'd try not to penalise too much but it means his best technique is more limited to one side), he might also be a touch behind some others in terms of passing and I'm feeling some like Bergkamp and Zidane might just about be worth a higher score for pure ball control (pulling the ball out of the air with ease, subtly easing the ball into the best position to play a pass etc etc), but don't forget we are looking at running/moving with the ball from a technical perspective and I gave him 10 for that (considering the way he could manipulate the ball while dribbling with it etc, and the control required for that). I respect your idea anyway. Good/fair question. I think I'll stop after this so as not to have too big a list to get through (I suspect I'd be scoring quite a few others at a similar level to several I already named though for sure), but that's an interesting request and Cruyff is obviously another legend that might similarly be requested so I'll do those two quickly now too.... On the basis of adjusting all the numbers as I wrote in my previous post (Maradona and Ronaldinho down to 8 for shooting, Laudrup down to 7 for that and 9 for controlling the ball, Zico also down to 9 for controlling the ball and Zidane up to 9 for moving with the ball if re-named that rather than just running with it!): Controlling the ball - Pele 9.5, Cruyff 9 Moving with the ball - Pele 7.5, Cruyff 9 Passing/crossing the ball - Pele 8.5, Cruyff 9 Shooting - Pele 9.5, Cruyff 8 So both joining the log-jam on 35 points! Explanations: I think Pele was a more capable shooter (and certainly scorer, even adjusting for eras) than Del Piero but although his basic technique was great and pretty reliable, I feel technically speaking Del Piero could pull out the more perfect/exquisite shots so I've gone with Pele on a bit less than him for that category. I feel Pele's control over the ball could lessen when running with it (not always though), but he had so many tricks and feints etc to help evade defenders that way so his overall dribbling game was better than this technical rating suggests. Meanwhile Cruyff's technical ratings are pretty great too and reasonably so IMO definitely, but his effective game was I feel even greater (so factoring in things like his vision and game intelligence, plus his acceleration and his elusiveness when dribbling and moving, and acknowledging that he tended to have a very good shooting accuracy even if with less spectacular shooting technique than some others).
I have said this many times in old threads that Maradona, while being supreme technically, still was not complete a player. His one-footed quality didn't impose a limit on his game overall, yet being one-footed does not make a player technically complete either.
Personally I would have given Pele a slightly higher rating for "moving with the ball". 8 to 8.5 I think, when seeing his full matches it will definately give a different perspective to watching shorter compillary videos of his dribbling. I think he was a very great dribbler. Thus, I would give him no less than 8 if not higher. Regards to Cruyff, I would give him also 8 if not higher in "moving the ball" category.
Highly technical players often overlooked that warrants a mentioning in this thread are Gullit Baggio Rivaldo Reinaldo Edmundo Roberto Dinamite Hagi Matt Le Tissier @Edhardy @leadleader @Bavarian14 @Alessandro10 @ko242
Technical players can require potentially a large range of skills. Personally, I don't think Gullit was one of the most technical, especially side by side with Van Basten. However, his end product in terms of crossing or scoring was crucial to Milan. I haven't seen anything of Reinaldo. Had he been on the 1982 Brazil WC squad, I could say otherwise. I never considered Edmundo highly technical. As roberto dinamite was on that 1982 team he must have been technical but I haven't seen much of him