Best Striker At Their Prime?

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Bavarian14, Dec 27, 2018.

  1. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024

    But defensive actions sounds wrongly on my view !
     
  2. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024

    https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x925pim




    I counted ...personally 13 defensive actions on this Match !


    Interceptions
    Tackles won %
    Slide blocks
    defensive blocks ...
    defensive covers
    Headers Won %
    Clearances

    etc..etc,.

    able to cover .. Ronaldo 's all defensive actions ... from 20 matches in a row !
     
  3. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024








    Gerd Muller

    amazing at defensive actions on this Match !
     
  4. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024

    Verdict

    Counting just one match

    Only
    You're kidding me at all !


    Gerd Muller changed his role quite a lot , depending on the matches.
     
  5. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024

    defensive-work


    It's not just about tackles won % it has much more metrics within ,,!



    winning the second ball ...........for example
    defensive covers .......for example ......
     
  6. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024

     
  7. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024
  8. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024




    against Real Madrid 1976 Home-game


    i saw there at video


    4- interceptions

    2(1) tackles won %


    1- clearances



    it looking pretty pretty faster the video there ....


    is necessary .. also to count this ...

    winning the second ball .. moment !
     
  9. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    But Ronaldo's peak were also consistent. Gerd Muller kept that peak for longer cause he didn't have those injuries. Also, Gerd Müller were playing at Bundesliga which is a weaker league compared to série A for example. Ronaldo would keep that 1 gpg playing for Bayern at Bundesliga even after his injuries imo
     
  10. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    At his peak he didn't have the global recognition of being the best striker itw like Ronaldo 98 or Romário 94 for example. In 1977 he were definitely the best Brazilian striker but that's it.
     
  11. Frank73

    Frank73 Member

    Inter Milan
    Brazil
    Mar 22, 2025
    Italy
    #2386 Frank73, Apr 15, 2026
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2026
    Ronaldo matched Muller's goals/90min rate only at Eredivisie and Liga, two tournaments that have always recorded very high such averages (as William Felipe underlined, Balthazar scored nearly 1gpg over a complete season in Liga, and he was no doubt a very good striker, but hardly the best of his generation; and Cruijff and Van Basten never got close anymore to their gpg figures after they left Eredivisie). Also in Muller's times all the major european tournaments were much more balanced than in Ronaldo's; no way Gerd's Bayern Monaco was comparatively as powerful as Ronaldo's Inter or Barca. Regarding R9's injuries, as I have already maintained, I think their consequences are a bit overstated; the kind of player R9 was is in any case prone to start declining in his late twenties in my opinion. Reinaldo suffered the aftermath of physical issues much more than him. If you remove injuries to interpolate Ronaldo hypothetical performances, you have to do the same in the case of Reinaldo, and in my opinion you have to recognize Reinaldo was much much more affected. Consider Reinaldo had already broken all his four menisci by the age of 19, and surgeons and physiotherapists
    of late 70s could do nothing to mitigate his issues (they made things worse actually).
     
    Wiliam Felipe Gracek repped this.
  12. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    What??? With all respect but Gerd Muller's Bayern won a three peat. It's considered the best Bayern Munich side ever with Beckenbauer (goat CB) and Paul Breitner (among the greatest LB/CM). And that three peat (74-76) weren't even during Gerd Muller's peak (early 70s). Are you really saying this team were weaker than Ronaldo's Barça/Inter? It's the other way around bro. The best team itw during Ronaldo's peak (on late 90s) were Juventus.

    I'm not considering hypothetical scenarios. I'm considering what they actually did on the pitch at the peak of their prowess. I.e. Reinaldo 1977, Ronaldo 96-98, Gerd Müller 1972, Romário 1994, etc...
     
  13. Frank73

    Frank73 Member

    Inter Milan
    Brazil
    Mar 22, 2025
    Italy
    I meant to say the distance between top and low-level teams was shorter in Muller's times. Muller's Bayern was Germany's best while R9's Inter/Barca were not? Maybe, but distance to low-classification teams was in favor of R9's, so it was easier to him to score hat tricks against these "sparring partners".
     
  14. Letmepost

    Letmepost Member

    Arsenal
    South Korea
    Apr 11, 2023
    #2389 Letmepost, Apr 15, 2026
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2026
    I have heard great levels of praise for the promise of Reinaldo, and I have no knowledge of the extent of his injuries, but Ronaldo Nazario is no lightweight in terms of what was taken away by his injuries in my opinion. Especially once you factor the type of playstyle he utilized to skyrocket to greatness.

    Biomechanically speaking, footballers without any meniscus tissues, which act as cushions, are somewhat able to sustain decent levels of explosiveness, it is just that the knee joint swells like a bitch after all the abuse it takes after-the-fact. Ledley King would be one example of a player who could act as a speed-demon despite minimal amount meniscus tissues being left in his knees. If we look into 100m sprinters, we had top performing athletes with chronic meniscus issues, but try searching for active sprinters who suffered complete patellar ruptures. It might be impossible.

    Complete patellar tendon ruptures, destroys the pulley that transmit force for knee movement. Without it, quadriceps muscle force becomes severely compromised. The sudden acceleration and deceleration, that Ronaldo Nazario was basically famed for, is directly ruined by this injury. With a compromised patellar tendon you might as well kiss goodbye to regaining your peak explosiveness ever again. I have yet to see a player retain godlike acceleration and explosive movement after a complete patellar rupture.

    [​IMG]

    I would rank pre-injury Ronaldo Nazario extremely highly in terms of initial explosive movement, in fact, I think it was by far his biggest asset as an athlete. And it was basically ruined forever after 2000. Whatever was left was just a merely speedy player, no longer in possession of superhuman acceleration and deceleration that allowed him to blitz defenses with an uniquely enticing playstyle.

    In terms of biomechanics, it would be difficult to single out another injury that takes away Ronaldo Nazario's ability to accelerate and decelerate with such power.

    Of course, Ronaldo Nazario's unique playstyle and lifestyle may have doomed the fate of his patellar tendons, no matter how many re-runs of his careers we do inside our heads, but none-the-less, the severity of what was taken away is no small issue in my opinion.
     
  15. Al Gabiru

    Al Gabiru Member+

    Jan 28, 2020
    First of all, Ronaldo Nazário and Gerd Müller are two of the greatest strikers in history. There’s no wrong opinion in preferring one over the other. They have different styles.

    Müller was brilliant at finishing, and his goal averages show it, one of the greatest ever in that regard. But he wasn’t a great dribbler (Müller finished the 1970 World Cup with 0.5 dribbles per game). He was a tougher, less refined player outside the box. Perhaps similar to Haaland/Nistelrooy (though Müller was obviously far superior to them), but Haaland also has an extremely high scoring average, and many criticize him for having a game seen as limited in terms of skills outside the box. Perhaps that’s why Muller won only one Ballon d’Or, despite so many titles and a historically high scoring rate.(And in Müller’s era the Ballon d’Or was only awarded to Europeans, perhaps Pelé would have beaten him in 1970.).

    Ronaldo Nazário, on the other hand, before his 2000 injury, was seen by the football community (Maldini, Costacurta, Mourinho, etc.) as an unstoppable dribbler. A modern comparison might be Mbappé or Gareth Bale. Sadly, official statistics on Ronaldo Nazário’s dribbling during his prime don’t exist. Yet fan analyses suggest he averaged about 4.6 successful dribbles per game in La Liga 96/97 (a plausible number when compared with the few Opta reports from his prime, such as the five dribbles in the 1997/98 UEFA final). Perhaps that’s also why Nazario won the Ballon d’Or two times, because of his dribbling as well, not just his goal average.

    There’s no right or wrong, they’re different styles. A Haaland/Nistelrooy prototype gives you more goals, while an Mbappé/Bale offers the bonus of dribbling (comparison is more about style than about level).
     
  16. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Really? Bayern scored 101 goals at Bundesliga 71/72 while Inter scored 67 at Série A 97/98. Série A were at their prime in the 90s and teams prioritized defence. Ronaldo were regularly facing parma with Buffon, Cannavaro and Thuram, Lazio with Nesta, Milan with Maldini, etc... I find it quite weird for you to say the midtable/relegation teams distance were lower at 70s Bundesliga than at 90s Série A.
     
  17. Frank73

    Frank73 Member

    Inter Milan
    Brazil
    Mar 22, 2025
    Italy
    #2392 Frank73, Apr 15, 2026
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2026
    Bundesliga 71-72: goals scored by teams and by single players. Average team goals/90 min were higher, but it was way more difficult to monopolize scoring at individual level: there used to be less hat tricks. That was a trait common to all the major tournaments in the 70s and 80s, for a plurality of reasons, tournaments being more balanced being one. Bayern got to collect 100 goals because of Muller's 40 golas. Not the other way round.
     

    Attached Files:

  18. Frank73

    Frank73 Member

    Inter Milan
    Brazil
    Mar 22, 2025
    Italy
    Serie A 1997-98
     

    Attached Files:

  19. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024
    Genius Olise and Harry Kane !
     
  20. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Perhaps it's because there were fewer world-class strikers in the '72 Bundesliga compared to '98 Serie A? Aside from Müller and Heynckes, I don't recognize anyone else on that list, whereas I know at least five from the Serie A era. When a team lacks a world-class striker, they tend to play a more collective style.

    That doesn’t change the fact that it was easier to score in the '72 Bundesliga than in '98 Serie A. The mere fact that Ronaldo, in his prime, scored 34 goals in La Liga ('97) and then only 21 in Serie A ('98) clearly demonstrates the difference in defensive quality.
     
  21. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024
     
  22. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024
     
  23. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024

    Real Madrid and Barcelona out ...that's pretty cool !!!
     
  24. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024

    1971–72 26 11 – 4 3 – 30 14


    Uwe Seeler season !
     
  25. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024

    1971–72 29 22 9 7 — — 38 29



    Klaus Fischer









    Nazario never did it .... just one goal Of Bicycle-Kick !
     

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