Best Striker At Their Prime?

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Bavarian14, Dec 27, 2018.

  1. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
  2. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    #452 PDG1978, Sep 6, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2021
    It's going off the topic of strikers a bit, but interesting maybe that he put Mancini (who normally was more of a supporting forward) in midfield, and (although maybe the midfielders/strikers 'shortlists' were not made by Sven himself?) Giannini was not down as an option (he broke out more after Eriksson left Roma I suppose though, although it seems he progressed well under his management), while I noticed recently that Sampdoria offered to swap Mancini for Giannini at some point apparently, via this article linked here (a profile on Giannini):
    Soccer Nostalgia: Player Profiles-Part 6
     
  3. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I hadn't really meant to be controversial and leave Ibrahimovic out of it earlier when I posted this to be honest, and it wasn't anything to do with considering him more of a support striker (this would apply more to a Tomas Brolin but I guess he'd not be in the equation anyway so much except on absolute peak level perhaps and/or impact for the national team although it would seem Nordahl might be hard to beat on that one albeit not in such high level tournaments), so I'd accept he probably has to be in the mix too.

    Nilsson himself was surely capable as a provider too, and does have support striker as a secondary option on the PES stats page I see.
     
  4. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Talking of Brolin, I see Matigol did make a video for him too!
    Tomas Brolin – Best Player In The World Cup 1994 ● Moments of Genius - YouTube
    Best Player in the World Cup 1994 might be a big call, but he'd be up there somewhere in my opinion too at least.

    More often that not he played from the right wing position in that tournament anyway, but he'd been in a strike partnership in Euro 92 where he scored his famous goal vs England.
     
  5. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I notice this video now too of Nilsson playing in Uefa Cup and European Cup games of 81/82 and 85/86 apparently
    Torbjörn Nilsson - Best Swedish player of all time - YouTube

    It helps to show he could in full stride be quite quick but not THAT quick I suppose (so the PES ratings on speed seem ok for him indeed probably - whether he was a bit quicker in 82 than 86 or something is possible though I guess), and also highlights creative abilities with a few assists (I haven't gone back and checked what was already on Matigol's video by the way).
     
  6. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #456 carlito86, Sep 18, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2021

    Incredible compilation and incredible player

    Ive never seen a centre forward (European or south American) with more functional skills in and around the penalty area.
    With all due respect to his fantastic career if Sergio aguero is the modern day equivalent he is a very poor imitation indeed IMO

    Romario needs to be talked about much more especially if it is prime(What he could do on his best days) as opposed to how long he was at that level

    At his best this guy had 100% of the skills of Gerd muller and about 50% of the skills of Diego Maradona
    Speed,ridiculous technique and tier 1 finishing
     
  7. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #457 carlito86, Sep 19, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2021


    2 of the games greatest ever finishers dying within weeks of eachother

    Between Muller and Jimmy greaves are over 700 league goals,2 world cup medals and countless top scorer titles
    Part of history goes with the passing of the greats and since 2014 they've been going at a rate of almost 1 per year
    Di Stefano and Eusebio in 2014
    Cruyff in 2016
    Maradona in 2020
    Gerd muller and jimmy greaves in 2021

    Even less heralded legends like Socrates from Brazil
    Bobby Charlton is seriously frail/ill
    The game was arguably built on these players back
    Very sad times for the wider footballing community at large


    rest in peace to them all
     
    Gregoriak, Lincon18762, Buyo and 3 others repped this.
  8. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    And on the day of Spurs vs Chelsea as well
     
  9. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    The Roar of the Crowd - The Enigmatic Mr Greaves (BBC TV Documentary about Jimmy Greaves) 1969
     
  10. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
  11. TitoTata

    TitoTata Member+

    Jun 26, 2014
    Best striker !

    One of these three ?

    IMG_2465.jpg
     
  12. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    One of those players wasn't even a striker in anyway shape or form:rolleyes:
     
  13. Calculator

    Calculator Member

    Aug 6, 2021
    Not saying either of these players should be judged on the one game but obviously we don’t really get to directly judge them from a large sample of games. (And according to Pele’s PR machine these unofficial matches between South American and European clubs were apparently super important games, not saying I personally believe that or not, but whatever).
    Pelé (21 years old) Vs Hamburg


    Seeler (25 years old) Vs Santos



    Which striker would you prefer if all you knew was what you saw in this one game?
    Some of Seeler’s passes makes me wonder how many assists he must have had in his career. And the jump for his goal really is Ronaldo esque despite being about 5’7
     
  14. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Difficult to gauge a players true level from what he does in friendly matches

    Its also very hard to delve into the realm of hypothetical scenarios
    Peles career is very well documented for a player of his time

    For his finishing,his longevity,his headers,his link up play and his technique he cannot be compared to somebody like seeler

    Uwe seeler was 27 years old when the bundesliga was formed yet he scored 25 league goals or more only once there(30 league goals in 1963/64 to be exact)
    This at a time of all time high goal scoring averages in bundesliga(3.57 goals per game)

    Lothar Emmerich a player with 1 cap for the west German NT scored 31 Bundesliga goals in 1965/66

    He followed this up with 28 in 1966/67

    A player with 1 cap for the German NT did this!!


    Neither Seeler or emmerich made the 23 man ballon dor shortlist in either 1964,1965 or 1966 which says alot about the perception of them as players in real games in competitive matches
     
  15. Calculator

    Calculator Member

    Aug 6, 2021
    There are fine margins between the most glorious success, and failure. In the 66 World Cup final he smashed a 27 yard shot into the top corner at 1-1 but Gordon Banks (considered the best goalkeeper in the world) made a flying save with his fingertips. If that went in and Germany win how does it change his status and reputation?
    Look I think I’ve made it clear on this forum how highly I think of Maradona but if he had a bad injury in April of 1986 that’s his “legacy” down the toilet. But I’d still prefer him over most if not all other players.
     
  16. TitoTata

    TitoTata Member+

    Jun 26, 2014
    Are you sure ?

    Anyways , I seem to recall Rivaldo scoring a fabulously important and impressive hattrick for FC Barcelona including a long distance overhead kick in the top corner ( and it wasn’t a shinner like Rooney’s was )
    :)

    IMG_3195.jpg
     
    Gregoire1 repped this.
  17. Calculator

    Calculator Member

    Aug 6, 2021
    The other thing I’d add is that Seeler was the Footballer Of The Year in Germany three times. Only Beckenbauer beat that with four times. No one else in the history of German football has beat that since the award began in 1960. Only a handful of players have equalled it. Not even Gerd Muller equalled it. The thing about the Ballon D’or in those days is that, considering the state of highly limited visual media coverage, I don’t really trust its judgement, with journalists rating players from afar that they don’t have any business passing judgement on, really.
    On the other hand I can believe that journalists at the national level were seeing the players they rated playing live regularly, and so maybe I put a bit more credibility on national awards like Footballer Of The Year of a nation given by journalists of that nation.
     
  18. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    German footballer of the year in 1970?


    1970 ballon dor= Gerd muller

    Bundesliga 1969/70 top scorer
    Gerd muller:38 goals
    Uwe seeler:17 goals


    I don't know what german journalists were seeing to be honest

    Mind you uwe seeler was only 27 years old when the bundesliga was formed and he was a player famed for his longevity yet he made kickers bundesliga team of the season only once in his career


    About player of the year awards,golden boots, ballon dors etc

    Messi by 2012 had 2 European golden boots
    Thierry Henry also won 2 European golden boots in his career

    Henry scored 30 league goals in 2003/04 and that was enough to be considered the top domestic scorer in Europe's top 5 leagues

    Messi scored 50 league goals in 2011/12
    Same award yet not remotely comparable in anyway shape or form



    Same with uwe seeler and Gerd muller

    Gerd muller was competing against
    franz beckenbaur in his peak
    Gunther netzer in his peak
    Paul Breitner in his peak
    Dieter muller in his peak
    Karl Heinz rummenige at or close to his peak


    Who was around in Germany between 1953-64 playing at their peak who would be considered a 250 all timer?


    I think youre wrong underplaying the reach of journalists who voted at the ballon dor.
    Uwe seeler finished 3rd in the 1960 ballon dor ahead of Alfredo di stefano

    Had Pele been eligible everyone with the possible exception of Luis Suarez would be moved down a place







     
  19. Legolas10

    Legolas10 Member

    Real Madrid
    Jun 5, 2020
    I saw this once btw

    https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/romario-the-most-overrated-st-in-modern-football-history.2037703/

    And now this too. Who knows what happened !
    Incase of changing mind after getting bebunked , its good and appreciated btw :thumbsup:
     
  20. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #470 carlito86, Oct 1, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2021
    I used to be a bigger fan of Ronaldo nazario then any other player including Cristiano Ronaldo

    That should tell you all you need to know


    Despite the softening tone and new found 'appreciation' i have of Romario de souza there are still some exaggerations from his extreme fanbase (some old posters that used to run rampant here)

    In addition to having holes in his resume that have simply been glossed over
    Ie
    Going houdini in the 1993/94 Champions league

    Scoring in bunches in la liga 1993/94(his goals were not evenly spread out which would purport to a certain level of consistency)

    Leaving Europe way way to early for my own personal liking

    Suggestions his world cup performance in 1994 was something out of the ordinary(deeper analysis shows it was not)

    Losing the dutch player of the year almost every single season he played in the eredivisie

    And it goes on etc
    The claim on big soccer was that he was a top 25 all timer.

    That was the context and agenda i was disputing in those posts you reference
    I never believed that he was a top 25 all timer then
    I don't believe that now and will frankly probably never believe that at any point in the foreseeable future


    Purely as a finisher in and around the box i havent seen anything like him from a technical perspective
    Outside the box there are 30 forwards i could name of the top off my head who were cleariy was impactful
     
  21. shvungpita19

    shvungpita19 Red Card

    Sep 25, 2021
    Edhardy repped this.
  22. AgentOfR9

    AgentOfR9 Member

    Real Madrid
    Argentina
    Jul 21, 2021
    After Ronaldo’s 2002 World Cup performance, he was on track to becoming a more prolific & better version of his previous self. Obviously he had to change his game, played a less captivating style, but in terms of efficiency he looked like he could win another 2-3 Ballon D’ors if he stayed healthy.

    Unfortunately he wasn’t able to maintain his form & gained weight which impacted his effectiveness. He was still averaging about 40 goal contributions during his 1st three seasons at Real but considering the quality of his team, it wasn’t good enough for European Cup success or another Ballon D’or.

    If he kept up his World Cup form for another few seasons, we might be talking about a top 8 player of all time.
     
  23. AgentOfR9

    AgentOfR9 Member

    Real Madrid
    Argentina
    Jul 21, 2021
    Sorry for the tag guys, I just want to ask who y’all think is better between El Fenomeno & Luis Alberto Suarez?
     
  24. Legolas10

    Legolas10 Member

    Real Madrid
    Jun 5, 2020
    You probably lack football knowledge , and lacks judgement of game from what it seems. Probably a hater of Pele too it seems by mention of unreal PR and sort of stuffs.
    The fact that you mention
    Which striker was better? probably indicates your knowledge . "Striker" ??
    Pele was never a striker .Research and learn about Playing position and role of Pele on field first : http://otaviopinto.com/index.php/2016/07/14/pele-10-formation/

    And seriously it makes me question whether you have even seen the game too.
    Nobody with a sound brain who watched that game would even call Pele a striker. Its like calling a young Maradona a striker , or Messi a striker. He was literally operating from way deeper position in that game

    And i watched the full game long back . Pele was miles better in that game than Seeler , not even close .
     
  25. Legolas10

    Legolas10 Member

    Real Madrid
    Jun 5, 2020
    Compare Luis Suarez with Thierry Henry , or Gabriel Batistuta (probably suarez is better) - a more closer comparision.

    Ronaldo , Romario , MVB above his league
     

Share This Page