R9 was around 22% in Serie A. A bit high. Yes somebody has to score them. And yes they count (and are important). I am just saying, when you're comparing amazing goal stats by great players, it's interesting to look at non-PK goals out of curiosity. CR7 PK % is less than 24% in his career (16.6% to be precise). This season in Serie A, he is at 33%. Probably will be less by end of campaign as it normalizes.
Paolo maldini 2009 "It is an exaggeration to compare him to Marco Van Basten. But, technically, the two players are equivalent. Marco was more of a goal scorer, he was more complete. Zlatan is more powerful, and more motivates his teammates" https://sport.gentside.com/paolo-ma...ovic-et-van-basten-s-equivalent_art15538.html Purely as a league legend zlatan makes my top 5 all time striker ahead of R9,shevchenco,Henry,romario,suarez,batistuta etc He is of the same class as van basten and probably behind the late great euesbio Factoring everything else (International and continental comps) He then is arguably behind most of those names
That's highly debateable I think. Ibra only has 7 years in the Serie A in total. Batistuta has at least 10 years where he was one of the premier striker in the Serie A. So he doesn't even have longevity advantage. Ibra, at no point, was able to raise the reputation and status of his Serie A teams to elite continental level, the same way Shevchenko was able to with AC Milan. Ibra was never able to place very highly in the Ballon D'or during the pre-Messi/Ronaldo duopoly, the same way Shevchenko and Nedved did, both without national or UCL title in the year they won. Honestly though, I didn't follow Serie A in the mid-2000s close enough if Ibra's reign in the Serie A was as dominant as Henry in the EPL. The bar set by Henry was: 1. One goal away from winning top scorer 5 times in a roll, usually with a sizeable gap between him and the 2nd top scorer. 2. Set new Assist record 3. Nominated for PotY 6 years in a roll. Won twice. If there was to be a vote of the greatest players in the Serie A since 1992, where would Ibra rank because Henry would easily finish top 3, likely top 2 of the EPL in the same period. It's not even clear to me if Ibra was more dominant in the Serie A than Lewandowski has been in the Bundesliga. R9, Romario, and Suarez are not really in the conversation as they never spent long enough in any league to cement their legendary status. In such a category, players who spend their entire career would have a major advantage. I'm thinking of names like Alan Shearer.
Surely Ibra surpasses most of not all other strikers if only due to the amount of trophies and the longevity of his career ..
Yes, but he said "purely as a league legend", and Ibra longest spell anywhere is 7 combined years in the Serie A.
Dude, stop. It's like you're intentionally not getting it. This is not about winning league titles, or he would have said so. Nobody would contest the number because all of us can count. It wouldn't be a discussion. It would be a "look up wikipedia" thing. The premise was about being a legend of a league. That's it. We were discussing that. So either discuss how much of a legend he is to a league compared to other stars, or start a new premise. Don't start tangents that are irrelevant.
I think zlatans league MVPs were more hard fought as Henry's Francesco totti and kaka in their prime are unequivocal upgrades on Gerrard,van nistelrooy,scholes,lampard etc Thierry Henry wouldn't make top 10 serie A legend with his stats or influence Who is he displacing exactly? Diego maradona Michel platini Roberto baggio Marco Van basten Even gabriel batistuta had superior league numbers playing for fiorentina(not arsenal) Andriy shevchenco always outshone Henry in big games and particularly the CL(hence his 04 ballon dor) I mean these are just WC players with longevity over the past 30 years How about if we go further back guissepe meazza,Nordhal,sandro mazzolo (or his father),luigi riva etc Every single one of these players either had one of two things As good/superior numbers to prime thierry henry Or was more complete/talented When henry left in 07 who was his challenger for GOAT PL player Cantona? lost the BD to prime roberto baggio Bergkamp? How well did he do in serie A Zola He was just a normal player in italy,nothing out of the ordinary The PL of the late 90s/early 2000s was a retirement home for serie A superstars George weah,ruud gullit and andriy shevchenco all prove this point They played their prime in top European leagues and came to the premiership to cash in Its just revisionism to claim the exploits of henry are in someway overlooked The premier league really took off in the mid to late 2000s Performances in europe solidify this too
That part where you said that Zola was an average Joe in Italy whilst he was absolutely outstanding in the EPL ..interests me . Over the decades there have been so many relatively unknown , foreign players come into our league and set the world on fire and dominated for years .. What do you put this down to ?? I’ve thought for a long time that La Liga has easily had the most attractive football but the EPL is widely regarded as THE best league
We do not have to go back. I intentionally asked how highly Ibrahimovic will rank in a serie a ranking from 1992 onwards to make it fair, as that's when the EPL started (ps. Henry was voted into PFA Team of the Century for a league that had 10 UCL titles compared to 11 of Serie A at the time). Shevchenko didn't win the Ballon D'or 2004 because of his UCL exploits. See this post. Interesting that Zola was just a normal player in Italy when he was only one of 2 Serie A players (along with Maldini) to be voted into the ESM TotY. This was on top of winning the Cup Winners Cup with Parma and also top assist provider in the Serie A in 92-93. All of that is irrelevant anyway. The question is a simple one, whether Ibrahimovic is an undisputed top 5 league legend forward in the post-1992 European football landscape.
He begins his run in the opposition half, the ball never more than a foot in front of him. Not tall, but deceptively strong and with a low centre of gravity, he glides rather than gallops towards the opposition goal, effortlessly changing direction as defenders unsuccessfully try to close in for a tackle. One final change of pace, one last touch and he is clear of them and the opposing keeper before passing the ball into an unguarded net. Who is this world-class striker? Lionel Messi? Cristiano Ronaldo? Diego Maradona? Pele? No, he is one of our own, arguably the greatest English-born striker of all time: James Peter Greaves, who celebrates his 80th birthday on Thursday. Between 1957, when, aged 17, he made his debut for Chelsea, and 1971, when he played his final game for West Ham, Greaves scored a staggering 422 goals in 602 games, many on mud heaps of pitches, with defenders attempting to tackle him from behind, sideways or any other direction. In 379 games for Tottenham, he scored 266 times — still a club record — and, before that, 132 in 169 matches for Chelsea. He won 57 caps for England, scoring 44 goals, endured rather than enjoyed a brief spell at AC Milan, scoring nine goals in 14 appearances and, finally back in east London, where he was born, netted 13 times for West Ham in 40 games. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/tottenham-legend-jimmy-greaves-great-survivor-a4365196.html?amp?espv=1 I think he is generally underrated in discussions pertaining to great prime level strikers
He definitely is He is only one of 3 players in the 21st century to score 500 career goals His greatness almost entirely emanates from his league record Just who are these supposed 5 champions league era strikers (1992- )who are equal or better as Ibrahimovic Ibrahimovic had a superior record vs top 4 periodic league teams then Henry In France(particularly)and also Italy More league top scorer titles More league MVPs If Henry is better its solely because of his 06 champions league run Not because he was more impactful/devastating league player
I was looking R9 profile and it seems that he had 49 Serie A goals in 68 matches for Internazionale, plus he had scored in his twice vs Siena in 06/07 season: https://www.transfermarkt.com.br/ronaldo/leistungsdaten/spieler/3140/plus/0?saison=2006 So, I'm not sure about these 77 matches. About Cristiano reaching 50 Goals in 70 matches at 33 yo, I bet he could reach more in his prime, in the actual serie A, probably 50 Goals in 60 matches. But he would a better dribbler and a ball carrier in the process, arguably a bit more involved in build up plays. Not sure about the legends of the past in the comparasion.
These are goals scored whilst playing for a serie A club side (in all club competitions-not just the league)
Between jean Pierre papin and Rudi voller who would you say had the highest peak for club and international ? And also is it a fair statement that voller was the most skilled european penalty area striker (even moreso than gerd Muller) @Gregoriak @PDG1978 @PuckVanHeel
England probably has a number of very good penalty box strikers as well. From Dixie Dean to Greaves to Lineker and of course, Shearer.
Possibly Papin for club but arguably Voller for international level? Not really sure of my own view though even to be honest. Most skilled European penalty area striker is not something I really thought about before, but off the top of my head I suppose it depends who is viewed as a penalty area striker. Greaves might not be 100% sure to be in that bracket, but I think he'd be a candidate otherwise. Likewise Suker maybe. The best/greatest would seem to be Muller (if Van Basten isn't counted also, and his completeness and involvement around the pitch does exclude him from this particular category I suppose, like you assume already yourself I think - he'd be the most skilled too quite probably anyway if counted I think!), while Lineker would be closer to best than to most skilled I'd say for example.
For skill in the penalty area, the way I interpret the statement, I'd have Ruud van Nistelrooy in that bracket and lean towards him if forced to choose.